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Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)

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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 12, 2019, 1:54 PM Post
Posts: 1392
nate82 said:
YoungGeezy1 said:
Westbrook’s contract is also not friendly. Believe it’s like 36 mil this year, 41 mil, 43 mil, & 46 mil... those aren’t exact but ballparks. That is a lot to absorb... even with trading Bledsoe. That’s problem one. Problem 2, we don’t have much for draft capital. We got some back for Brogdon but still not much to work with. Lastly, Westbrook wants the ball at a very high usage rate. Giannis works at a high usage rate. Both are at best when ball is in their hands. KD could play off it better since guy can shot with the best of them but Giannis has to attack to get his points. Westbrook Shot 6 3s a game while hitting only 29% of them. Like Giannis he needs to attack to score.

Really Russ isn’t too different from the way Bledsoe scores except Bledsoe doesn’t require the usage Westbrook wants. Bledsoe knows his role on team which means get ball to Giannis & play off him. Not sold on Westbrook & Giannis thriving together. It could work out or it could fail miserably.

No doubt though that Bucks instantly end all doubts or debates who is the most elite team in East. If Giannis & Westbrook can coexist with Middleton & Lopez to stretch floor.... feel bad for rest of East.


My thoughts exactly except I don't think Westbrook will command all that much more than what is rumored to be a package for Westbrook. If the Thunder want to wait until the trade deadline maybe the Knicks will step in and give them the picks that they would want. The only other team that seems intriguing for the Thunder would be Minnesota who could offer Wiggins and a couple of draft picks for Westbrook.

I do agree Bledsoe is a better option with Giannis and Middleton. I would really prefer Beal but I am not sure how the Bucks could get him without trading Bledsoe to another team. Ideally a Hill, Beal, Middleton, Giannis and Lopez would be pretty freaking awesome. Depth wise the Bucks would be hurting but I am not sure there is a team in the East that could stop that starting 5. The Nets come close but Middleton and Lopez become the deciding factor in a 7-game series.



I'm shocked that the Thunder got as much as they did to swap Westbrook for Paul.

Now they're basically working with Paul to try and work out some trade to get him to a team he wants to play for.

I wasn't too worried, but I never wanted to see the Bucks get Westbrook. It'd give them a much better team on paper, but obviously a terrible fit.

Now if they're just looking to move Chris Paul and try to save some money along the way, I'd definitely be all for adding Chris Paul. I don't see any realistic trade that could happen, I don't see who we could trade that would match salaries. I mean, Bledsoe+Ersan is still about 12 million short.

Chris Paul can still play though and he'd make the Bucks a much better team. He can still play, he can still shoot, he can defend(not like Bledsoe, but he's got really good hands and anticipation and can create turnovers). He's definitely slowed down, but I'd still place him among the top 5-6 PG's in the NBA.

Middleton+Bledsoe+Indy's draft picks+draft swap rights for the next two picks we do have for Paul and Shai Gilgeous Alexander and then throw in Patrick Patterson?


Again, this got .000001 pct chance of happening. We're not dealing two guys we just signed and I don't see why OKC would trade a guy who's compared to Bledsoe but "a much better shooter and 6'6." So they play the same style and are similar, Bledsoe is more explosive, Alexander is the better shooter and an very long PG.

Man, with no TPE and really no flexibility, all we can do is dream. And I am dreaming of a Chris Paul/Gilgeous Alexander/Matthews/Giannis/Lopez with Hill/Pat C-Brown-DDV/Peterson/Wilson/Lopez as the bench with Thanasis, Maye, maybe Fletcher Magee or whoever.

You get the superstar in Paul now, the young future star in Alexander and you plug and mix and match the 3-4 spots. Wilson gets more PT and maybe you pick someone up later in the year.


Now that's what I'd do....If I was playing NBA 2K or whatever.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 12, 2019, 2:03 PM Post
Posts: 1392
patrickgpe said:
they have 2 spots left. i won't be surprised if its frazer and colson. I said Carter is my top choice remaining (actually Korver, but I can't see him signing a minimum deal here). None of the names above do much for me. They have some guys playing this summer who are intriguing (mainly Hommes and Landale).

I just don't see them going outside the organization to fill these spots.



Fraizer is gone and I'm not sure what Colson's deal is. But Frazier signed with Detroit.

Korver has listed the Bucks as one of the team he wants to play for.

I'd be good with Carter, I'd be good with just bringing Pau back on a minimum deal.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 12, 2019, 2:08 PM Post
Posts: 1392
nate82 said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
That trade is going to be a disaster. Both teams will be worse. Not that the Thunder care.


The Rockets theoretically should be better but it all depends on how well Harden plays with Westbrook. Harden and CP3 didn't get along at all on the court. I don't think Harden and Westbrook are a good pairing but who knows maybe they prove everyone wrong.

The Thunder go from a 7 or 8 seed with Westbrook and getting swept in the playoffs to becoming a lottery team. It was time to rebuild for them. The Thunder did get some solid young players in the George trade along with the picks. I don't expect them to be bad for very long depending on who they get in the draft.

Paul will definitely be traded maybe that Pacers pick plus Ersan for Paul? Not that I want the Bucks to trade for Paul but I could see that happening.


I don't get why people wouldn't want Paul. He makes them a much-much more dangerous team in the playoffs than what they have right now.

It's just that Ersan doesn't come even close to matching Paul's salary. OKC is working with him to try and work out a deal that makes sense, but OKC is gonna want something back for him. A couple more 1sts.

Right now they just pulled off one of the haul's of the century. I didn't think a team would get more for a superstar than what the Pelicans did, but the Thunder MAY have, but only because that trade was effectively for Paul AND Kawhi.

They gave up some good young talent though.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 12, 2019, 2:14 PM Post
Posts: 4990
Location: Madison, WI
It's the contract. He's 34, been declining for a couple years already and is frequently hurt and you owe him about 3/120 mil going into age 37. That's why. Playing one game today, sure you'd want him but it's not that simple.

Also, OKC will be lucky to get anything back for him of value. I actually think they'll have to use a 1st or maybe two in order to dump move his salary to someone. Look at how much Houston just had to pay to move while taking back an almost as equally bad/difficult contract.

Really the only trade that could've happened is Leuer, Ers, Bled but we already cut Leuer so barring a 3-4 team trade it seems almost impossible for MKE.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 12, 2019, 2:42 PM Post
Posts: 1392
OldSchoolSnapper said:
That trade is going to be a disaster. Both teams will be worse. Not that the Thunder care.



I guess it could work out for the Rockets. I doubt it, but they were already in the midst of a disaster with Paul and Harden at odds.

This is great for the Thunder. They just keep stockpiling picks and young talent. And they'll probably have a few lottery picks over the next two years.

IF the Bucks have to move on from Giannis, the Bucks would be lucky to be able to get this type of return.

But I think this is great for OKC. They traded two PG's who had awful contract and got compensated with a lot of picks.

They've not added;

First-round picks in 2024 and 2026, pick swaps in 2021 and 2025 from the Rockets. Those 2024-2026 picks could end up being really nice picks for the Thunder by then. Even if they're not, that's still a lot of draft capital.

For George they ended up getting: FOUR unprotected first-round picks, one protected first-round pick and two pick swaps in addition to Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Danilo Gallinari.


So they get 5 picks from the Clippers and the ability to swap picks.
Another 2, plus 2 more chances to swap 1st rounders.
They get a key building block, the type of PG you can a franchise around.
And added a 6'10 PF who wasn't far away from a 50/40/90 season and is one of the best stretch 4's in the NBA AND they still have Chris Paul, one of the all time greatest PG's and one who's still an elite PG.

I've never seen or heard of a team acquire more assets to build a contender in such a short period of time. They just got completely lucky that they found two franchises that were desperate. The Clippers to trade for George so they could convince Kawhi to sign on and Houston HAD to trade one of Paul or Harden and they're not trading the guy who's been in the top 2 in MVP voting the last 5 years and is 3 years younger than Paul.

And again, I think they could get a ton if they so choose for Alexander, Gallinari and Paul. Those are 3 really good players.

And they get out from under the luxury tax. This is how you build a young superstar team as a small market. This is how you can rebuild a team like the KD/Westbrook/Harden/Serge type team as a small market team.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 16, 2019, 3:20 PM Post
Posts: 818
CP3 is an interesting trade target. This couldn't happen for a while yet due to trade restrictions, but once those restrictions are lifted a trade along these lines might make sense:

Bucks get Paul
Thunder get Bledsoe, Ersan, Robin Lopez, and someone like DJ Wilson.

This probably makes the Bucks worse in the regular season, but probably makes them better in the playoffs the next year or two. I'm not as doom and gloom about Bledsoe in the playoffs as some fans, but he had a pretty poor track record so far. Paul can still shoot and can play better off ball than Bledsoe can. Robin Lopez isn't going to play in the playoffs. DJ Wilson probably isn't either.

There are legitimate chemistry concerns with Paul at this point based off of all the reports coming out. Ultimately winning cures most things though.

I don't think this is a slam dunk decision for the Bucks if Paul is still available once the Bucks can trade Bledsoe and Lopez, but it's definitely an interesting discussion.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 17, 2019, 11:39 AM Post

Tom Petty Apologist
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I usually discount trade proposals that involve guys teams just signed as Free Agents a few weeks ago


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 17, 2019, 1:15 PM Post
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I don't think the Bucks will do anything crazy like trade for Paul. The East is wide open for them. I see Boston, Indiana and Philly as being the best clubs - after us. But I don't think any are better. Oladipo is coming off a major injury. Boston has lots of good young talent and added Walker - but they lost a ton of stuff too. Philly has some really good players - but they lack depth and will need to gel.

The Bucks won using a well rounded team and depth. They had guys who worked the system. They'll continue that path going forward.

Giannis, Middleton, Bledsoe, Lopez Bros., Matthews, Hill, Wilson, Illysova, Connaughton - that's solid 10 guys. Add in Brown and DiVincenzo - and its a deep team. I imagine we will add another veteran as well (a shooter like Korver may work well).

I'd like to see some of the younger guys step up and get better.

This will be a club that won't get overworked in the regular season, which is important as we have seen that Giannis and others do need occasional rests. With a lot of veterans, guys shouldn't get worn down.

I also think this year's playoff run will help the team. The experience will - hopefully - make them a better team.

You can debate whether letting Brogdon go was a smart move - but it has happened - so there's no use dwelling on it too much.

In the end, the core of the team is going to be together for at least a few years - and we should be good during that time. With Durant out for this season, that makes this year even more of an opportunity.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 17, 2019, 1:29 PM Post
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agreed, they will add two 2-way contracts and go to camp with this squad. I think massively changing the club in July (which is what a CP3 trade would do) is not smart, which doesn't even taken into account that I do not like CP3 at this stage of his career or do not like how he fits in with this squad.

Bonzi Colson had a nice summer and wouldn't be surprised if he is brought to camp and then there is one to go.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 17, 2019, 1:30 PM Post
Posts: 4990
Location: Madison, WI
Also, there shouldn't be another regular season great record in the East that forces them to push to 60 wins for home court. So more room for load management on Giannis and whoever else needs it.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 18, 2019, 2:11 AM Post
Posts: 1392
JackNicholson1974 said:
I usually discount trade proposals that involve guys teams just signed as Free Agents a few weeks ago


Well, the Chris Paul discussion is purely hypothetical. I don't think there's any chance it'll happen, but if there is a sport where those type of deals happen, it's the NBA.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 18, 2019, 2:52 AM Post
Posts: 1392
reillymcshane said:
I don't think the Bucks will do anything crazy like trade for Paul. The East is wide open for them. I see Boston, Indiana and Philly as being the best clubs - after us. But I don't think any are better. Oladipo is coming off a major injury. Boston has lots of good young talent and added Walker - but they lost a ton of stuff too. Philly has some really good players - but they lack depth and will need to gel.

The Bucks won using a well rounded team and depth. They had guys who worked the system. They'll continue that path going forward.

Giannis, Middleton, Bledsoe, Lopez Bros., Matthews, Hill, Wilson, Illysova, Connaughton - that's solid 10 guys. Add in Brown and DiVincenzo - and its a deep team. I imagine we will add another veteran as well (a shooter like Korver may work well).

I'd like to see some of the younger guys step up and get better.

This will be a club that won't get overworked in the regular season, which is important as we have seen that Giannis and others do need occasional rests. With a lot of veterans, guys shouldn't get worn down.

I also think this year's playoff run will help the team. The experience will - hopefully - make them a better team.

You can debate whether letting Brogdon go was a smart move - but it has happened - so there's no use dwelling on it too much.

In the end, the core of the team is going to be together for at least a few years - and we should be good during that time. With Durant out for this season, that makes this year even more of an opportunity.



I don't do absolutes, but this is as close to an absolute as you can get. Like I said, a trade that would get us Paul and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander was a fantastical video game type trade. It would be a really gutsy move, but I only meant to use is as something to debate. It's not realistic.

The Bucks won using a well rounded team and depth. They had guys who worked the system. They'll continue that path going forward.


The only issue I'd take with this is that they didn't win and the only reason they'll use that "path" going forward is because...sadly, and I hate saying this, but CHL was right, they went cheap. They let Brogdon walk. That's fine. Maybe they did determine he was an injury risk and at least they got something for him. But for them to NOT ensure they got a 12-15 million TPE out of it is just them...being cheap. There's really no tactful way to put that. That's a loophole to help you replace a player giving you the OPTION to just take on salary without having to give anything up, something that many teams headed for the lottery or a low seed in the playoffs are happy to use to dump a good player. Sorry, not sure how else to put it. That could have been an avenue to add a REALLY good and really impactful player in case all the guys who try to fill in for Brogdon can't or simply aren't good enough to get the job done in a potential finals matchup. At least that option was there. Now because if reports are true, they wouldn't clear another 700K, something they could have easily done?
As for them winning, they were up 2-0 and they lost. Now as has been mentioned multiple times, the best of the best superstars almost never win it in their first deep run in the playoffs, but still, they didn't win. And now they lost probably their 3rd best player and sure, it's done and it's time to get over that, but I do think the Bucks should(or should have, still haven't heard about the TPE for certain) about trying to acquire that star player that has fallen out of favor on a rebuilding team.

That's not gonna involve the Bucks trading Middleton realistically, but you talk about depth and that will help them to again contend for home court advantage in the playoffs. But in the playoffs, that shrinks. That rotation should shrink at least to 7-8 guys getting most of the minutes. We're putting an awful lot into Sterling Brown becoming a viable replacement when he's really just been a league average or worse player, DDV, a more skilled version of Pat C and more athletic than Brogdon, but he was still not healthy enough to play in the summer league. And then there's Wesley Matthews. He's a good-reliable player, but he isn't going to be able to go too deep.

So we're really gonna need Giannis to improve his mid range game...maybe even more than his 3 point shot as that's where the "wall" so to speak really starts and he can so easily rise up over guys who are on their heels and take that 10-12 footer all day, he just doesn't have the touch to hit it consistently yet.


I generally agree with what you're saying. They're not going to do much at this point. There are only a handful of FA's available that are worth signing and fewer guards. A ball handler like Shane Larkin might be nice, Trey Burke would be better. If you want a bigger shooter, Ryan Anderson was a sniper on the Rockets a few years ago, Jamal Crawford is 39 years old, yet he still put up 51 on the last game. He could certainly fit the Jason Terry type role.

Trey Lyles would be a great pickup and the type of guy who I still think could develop into a really nice player and Justin Holiday is a good, long 3 and D type guy who could help us out.

Any trade for a substantial player would likely take place in January. But you look at what the Bulls did last year in dumping Jabari Parker and Bobby Portis to get Otto Jr. and there are a lot of one sided trades that can be made in season to get that 2nd or 3rd tier player that could help take a lot of pressure off Giannis and help them in a playoff series.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 18, 2019, 3:09 AM Post
Posts: 1392
patrickgpe said:
agreed, they will add two 2-way contracts and go to camp with this squad. I think massively changing the club in July (which is what a CP3 trade would do) is not smart, which doesn't even taken into account that I do not like CP3 at this stage of his career or do not like how he fits in with this squad.

Bonzi Colson had a nice summer and wouldn't be surprised if he is brought to camp and then there is one to go.



Ok, obviously you're not going to totally reshape your roster at this point. Though, unrealistic as it may be, I really would be all for it, particularly if it included the young PG OKC got from the Clippers as I think he's gonna be a star and maybe a superstar, but why wouldn't Paul fit in with this team?

He's an all time great PG and of course he's not as good as he was, but he's still a very good defender, a great ball handler and a really good shooter. And he's played with Harden who's an actual black hole offensively, albeit a very good one. But he'd be the first great passing PG Giannis has played with(and again, I think he's the lesser of the two assets with Gilgeous-Alexander being a really valuable young player.

You get a guy who's still probably a top 6 PG in the NBA, a great catch and shoot 3 point shooter, and a guy who can play the point or play off the ball right now. He's gives you a 2-3 year window to really compete.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 18, 2019, 5:25 AM Post
Posts: 858
Christian Wood has been release by New Orleans. Sign him immediately! Geez, the sign GA's brother, This is a no brainer.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 18, 2019, 5:55 AM Post
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Mr Southpaw said:
Christian Wood has been release by New Orleans. Sign him immediately! Geez, the sign GA's brother, This is a no brainer.


He was put on waivers and the pistons claimed him. I don't think the Bucks had a shot to get him. Very interesting the Pelicans gave up on him. NBA coaches must view him much differently than fans


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 18, 2019, 8:07 AM Post
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jjfanec said:
Mr Southpaw said:
Christian Wood has been release by New Orleans. Sign him immediately! Geez, the sign GA's brother, This is a no brainer.


He was put on waivers and the pistons claimed him. I don't think the Bucks had a shot to get him. Very interesting the Pelicans gave up on him. NBA coaches must view him much differently than fans


Turns out being 7 feet tall and being completely unwilling to play defense is a downside.

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 18, 2019, 1:20 PM Post
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Bucks are meeting with JR Smith. They do need a veteran shooter, and while at 33, not sure what he has left. I guess they could do worse for one of their final 2 spots.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 19, 2019, 3:15 PM Post
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Kostas was waived by the Mavs today, wonder if the bucks will go for all 3.


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 20, 2019, 10:02 AM Post
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Bucks signed Korver to a one year deal per Woj.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)
Posted: July 20, 2019, 11:04 AM Post
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homer said:
Bucks signed Korver to a one year deal per Woj.

Nice. Roster is filling out fine. I’ll miss Brogdon a lot, but we’ve done okay adding good role players.


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