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Badgers Football 2019

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Offline  Badgers Football 2019
#1

Posted: June 25, 2019, 9:47 AM Post
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I didn't see a thread for this yet. The Badgers 2020 recruiting class is looking rather good a few good 3-star recruits on defense and a nice 4-star also.

So far really liking what the Badgers will be getting in 2019 and 2020.


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#2

Posted: June 25, 2019, 9:55 AM Post
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2019 is a great class and you are right that 2020 is shaping up to be a really good one as well. They just snagged commitments from two out of state linebackers that had some really nice offer sheets. I think UW is set up to have a great run of success in the not so distant future.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#3

Posted: June 25, 2019, 10:09 AM Post
Posts: 4852
Location: Madison, WI
Generally agree all the pieces are in place. General area of concern for me is we're going on like 5 years now of Chryst being back and the offense hasn't taken off to anywhere near it was when he left and he generally scored a ton of pts at PIT as well. Still waiting for that shoe to drop.


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#4

Posted: June 25, 2019, 10:26 AM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
Generally agree all the pieces are in place. General area of concern for me is we're going on like 5 years now of Chryst being back and the offense hasn't taken off to anywhere near it was when he left and he generally scored a ton of pts at PIT as well. Still waiting for that shoe to drop.


I think they just need someone that can throw a big boy pass.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#5

Posted: June 25, 2019, 10:35 AM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
homer said:
tmwiese55 said:
Generally agree all the pieces are in place. General area of concern for me is we're going on like 5 years now of Chryst being back and the offense hasn't taken off to anywhere near it was when he left and he generally scored a ton of pts at PIT as well. Still waiting for that shoe to drop.


I think they just need someone that can throw a big boy pass.


Yea it should help. But they were scoring 40-50 pts a game with Tolzien and even the remnants after Paul left and all they had was Stave they were still just manhandling teams and scoring a lot even though they had a very limited passing game. Essentially, just saying they only had an elite QB one year yet they were just rolling over people. Waiting for that to return. Play actions, less predictability due to personnel on the field, passing game not only being shotgun. There's lots of room for improvement, I expected them to be back to a prolific offense by now.


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#6

Posted: June 25, 2019, 1:12 PM Post
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Tolzien was better than most people realize or remember. The guy had a decent career as a backup QB in the NFL. Stave had an NFL arm, but lacked the accuracy.

Stave's best year (2013) matches up pretty closely to Hornibrook's (2017). And ironically, both had similarly poor years before and after that. But Stave had the advantage of having Melvin Gordon and James White in the backfield. Jonathon Taylor is good, but probably not as good as Gordon and no where near a backup as good as White.


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Online  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#7

Posted: June 25, 2019, 1:14 PM Post
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CheezWizHed said:
Tolzien was better than most people realize or remember. The guy had a decent career as a backup QB in the NFL. Stave had an NFL arm, but lacked the accuracy.

Stave's best year (2013) matches up pretty closely to Hornibrook's (2017). And ironically, both had similarly poor years before and after that. But Stave had the advantage of having Melvin Gordon and James White in the backfield. Jonathon Taylor is good, but probably not as good as Gordon and no where near a backup as good as White.


I'd argue that Taylor is every bit as good as Gordon. It's the talent on the offensive line that's the biggest difference.


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
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Posted: June 25, 2019, 1:17 PM Post
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Agreed. That is why I left the "probably" in there. Hard to compare head-to-head, but I'd take Gordon by a little. But the bigger point was having a two headed RB. In the games that Taylor gets bottled up, doesn't play well, or simply resting, there isn't a big second string RB like White coming in. Back then (with that 2013 OLine), we probably could've just run every play. And I think a couple of games we practically did (when Stave was really off).


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#9

Posted: June 25, 2019, 1:24 PM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
I know, but that's the point those teams still scored tons. Paul scored a lot at Pit with obviously way less quality of line play there. He did have the one awesome WR in Boyd. So after 4-5 years I was expecting the offense to just be flourishing but the reality is it's been holding them back.

I know the OL of the last two years got hyped like crazy but frankly it just wasn't as good as the lines of the previous Chryst and just after Chryst era. That's really been the issue imo. I know Melvin was ridiculous, I've never seen anything like him, but often times he didn't get touched for 8 yds and we had just as poor of a passing game then. It was most evident in that whichever RB you put behind those lines would kill it and have really high YPC.

Personally I think Bostad should be back on OL but I don't know the story as to why it hasn't happened. For all I know he doesn't want to do it and likes coaching D, IDK. But some people report that he still spends some time helping with OL after practice and on the side. We also can't get a clear answer as to who's calling the plays. My best guess is Rudy is calling plays with of course PC heavily involved in pre game planning and is on the headsets so can chime in when he wants. But PC was one of the best play callers in college football, no reason he shouldn't still be doing it, especially as the O has stagnated the last couple years.

To get off the negative. Yes the recruiting uptick has been evident the last few years. All stuff we've been wanting to see. It's all set up well. Now we have to execute it on the field like I'm saying for the offense. And on D they have to stick to the aggressive blitzing 34 D that made them great leading up to last year. Imagine if we had those Ds at the same time as previous Chryst Os, that's true title contender status on the tier right below OSU/Clemson/Bama.


Last edited by tmwiese55 on June 25, 2019, 3:41 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#10

Posted: June 25, 2019, 1:40 PM Post
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You might be able to pin some of the locker room issues on Chryst. But after an excellent 2017, the Badgers were ranked 4th in the nation as people expected Hornibrook to continue his improvement. But even before his injury, he looked "off". Major regression year for him. And we didn't have a backup QB (or at least one that was ready). That was the major deflating point last year.

But frankly, we have been spoiled. Its frustrating to not break into the BCS championships, but we were in contention 2 of the 4 years Chryst has coached. And won decent bowl games all 4 years. This will be the first year with a QB that Chryst recruited also. Should be interesting.


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#11

Posted: June 25, 2019, 1:58 PM Post
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Another nice commit today for 2021 in Hill a QB.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... wisconsin/


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#12

Posted: June 25, 2019, 3:49 PM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
ChWiz last points on overall results in the 4 years has obviously been great. All I was getting at is that has been on the back of the defense while the offense has scuffled since he's been back. If we get taht fixed and D maintains being strong then they're going to do very well. Note that expecting top 5 Ds like they had before last year is too much to expect, but still being very good consistently with the system brought in by Anderson/Aranda is very realistic. They've recruited great on both sides of the ball to seemingly do all of this, now they need to execute it.


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#13

Posted: June 25, 2019, 7:23 PM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
ChWiz last points on overall results in the 4 years has obviously been great. All I was getting at is that has been on the back of the defense while the offense has scuffled since he's been back. If we get taht fixed and D maintains being strong then they're going to do very well. Note that expecting top 5 Ds like they had before last year is too much to expect, but still being very good consistently with the system brought in by Anderson/Aranda is very realistic. They've recruited great on both sides of the ball to seemingly do all of this, now they need to execute it.


Graham “Savior” Mertz: “Hold my Gatorade, I got this”


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#14

Posted: June 26, 2019, 8:30 PM Post
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nate82 said:
I didn't see a thread for this yet. The Badgers 2020 recruiting class is looking rather good a few good 3-star recruits on defense and a nice 4-star also.

So far really liking what the Badgers will be getting in 2019 and 2020.



When it comes to Badgers recruiting, I don't care unless it's good. You feel pretty confident they're going to be able to take the 45th ranked class and turn them into B10 contenders and a 10 win team. Now if you get a top 20 class with the top ranked QB in the class, that's when it starts getting fun!

I was so ready to watch Mertz leave UW for OSU like Shaw and Groulx did(the later not for OSU, but de-comitting).

It's amazing how many guys the Badgers are in on before they break out and become more widely recognized as big time recruits. There are still several in the 2019 class that honored their commitments, but losing those two hurts.

Still, the Graham Mertz era has arrived. The only question is if he starts this year or if starts later this year IMO.


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#15

Posted: June 26, 2019, 8:44 PM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
I know, but that's the point those teams still scored tons. Paul scored a lot at Pit with obviously way less quality of line play there. He did have the one awesome WR in Boyd. So after 4-5 years I was expecting the offense to just be flourishing but the reality is it's been holding them back.

I know the OL of the last two years got hyped like crazy but frankly it just wasn't as good as the lines of the previous Chryst and just after Chryst era. That's really been the issue imo. I know Melvin was ridiculous, I've never seen anything like him, but often times he didn't get touched for 8 yds and we had just as poor of a passing game then. It was most evident in that whichever RB you put behind those lines would kill it and have really high YPC.

Personally I think Bostad should be back on OL but I don't know the story as to why it hasn't happened. For all I know he doesn't want to do it and likes coaching D, IDK. But some people report that he still spends some time helping with OL after practice and on the side. We also can't get a clear answer as to who's calling the plays. My best guess is Rudy is calling plays with of course PC heavily involved in pre game planning and is on the headsets so can chime in when he wants. But PC was one of the best play callers in college football, no reason he shouldn't still be doing it, especially as the O has stagnated the last couple years.

To get off the negative. Yes the recruiting uptick has been evident the last few years. All stuff we've been wanting to see. It's all set up well. Now we have to execute it on the field like I'm saying for the offense. And on D they have to stick to the aggressive blitzing 34 D that made them great leading up to last year. Imagine if we had those Ds at the same time as previous Chryst Os, that's true title contender status on the tier right below OSU/Clemson/Bama.



It is kinda amazing how hyped that OL was. David Edwards...kept hearing how he was going to be a 1st round pick. I never saw him as even a good UW tackle, much less a mid 1st round type pick.

I just think a couple guys were a bit overrated and we never got 5 guys playing together for an extended period of time.
And you're right about the Gordon lines. He could do some amazing stuff. At times they'd really be clogging the box and he'd have nowhere to go and he'd find a way to make something happen. At others, like you said, he wasn't getting touched for 8 yards.

But I don't blame any of this on Chryst. I just chalk it up to College sports. Guys don't always pan out like you expect, injuries, there's a ton of drama that goes on with College Athletes. I'm just really excited that it appears as though the Badgers have a great coach who's going to be here for the next decade+. I really don't see him leaving and the continuity should help the Badgers continue to real in some nice recruits.


And I do think Graham Mertz could elevate this program. With the WR'ers we already have, the young WR'ers and TE's coming in, and obviously the OL, I could see the Badgers throwing the ball a lot more in the next few years making them more desirable to good QB's and there could be a ripple effect there.


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#16

Posted: June 26, 2019, 8:49 PM Post
Posts: 1392
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
CheezWizHed said:
Tolzien was better than most people realize or remember. The guy had a decent career as a backup QB in the NFL. Stave had an NFL arm, but lacked the accuracy.

Stave's best year (2013) matches up pretty closely to Hornibrook's (2017). And ironically, both had similarly poor years before and after that. But Stave had the advantage of having Melvin Gordon and James White in the backfield. Jonathon Taylor is good, but probably not as good as Gordon and no where near a backup as good as White.


I'd argue that Taylor is every bit as good as Gordon. It's the talent on the offensive line that's the biggest difference.



I'm with you that Taylor is a great back, that Gordon had a better OL...but I think Gordon was a much better back. I think he's the most talented back we've had since Alvarez got here and that's saying quite a bit. I think Taylor could be a 2nd/3rd round pick and be a very good NFL back however. It's more to do with how great I think Gordon is.

I think some forget that there were quite a few games where Gordon would be getting bottled up and the OL wasn't playing great and he'd find a way to break a few tackles and almost single handedly get the offense going.


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#17

Posted: June 27, 2019, 7:48 AM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
Totally agree Melvin was the best back we've had. It was crazy to see up close. There was a ton of just wide open holes for everyone back then. But where he really stood out (besides jet sweeps) would be a kind of standard off tack type play that kind of bottled up for a normal 3ish yd gain. But he could just bounce and take off and beat everyone to the outside and turn it into a big one. His "0-60" burst was unmatched. Nobody before or since could do that, White being the closest to it.


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#18

Posted: June 27, 2019, 8:27 PM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
Totally agree Melvin was the best back we've had. It was crazy to see up close. There was a ton of just wide open holes for everyone back then. But where he really stood out (besides jet sweeps) would be a kind of standard off tack type play that kind of bottled up for a normal 3ish yd gain. But he could just bounce and take off and beat everyone to the outside and turn it into a big one. His "0-60" burst was unmatched. Nobody before or since could do that, White being the closest to it.


I think we are forgetting Michael Bennett was Olympic sprinter fast. His burst & speed is something we will probably never see again at any position at Wisconsin or maybe Big 10. He was one of the fastest in college history clocking in a record 4.13 in the 40-yard dash, the second fastest in NFL history behind only Bo Jackson who ran a 4.12. His flaw was he had no patience and would far to often beat lineman to the hole. He only had 1 year to shine due to Dayne and he went on to become 1st round pick in that 1 year. He even made a pro bowl in NFL but Wisconsin never talk about him & overlook him.

Let Bennett start 3 years like Taylor & Gordon we’re able to.....or 4 like Dayne & Davis had....or like Ball & White with 3-4 years to get ton of carries... and we have a much greater debate. Bennett just happened to be behind the best RB in college history who got 30 touches a game.

For anyone who has forgot his explosiveness
https://youtu.be/2-YCsNvsMMw

Only guys he couldn’t out run we’re the cops after a burglary! For those forgot he was sent to prison for 5 years in 2017.


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#19

Posted: June 28, 2019, 7:41 AM Post
Posts: 505
-Need to become less predictable on offense. Not sure Chryst isnt stubborn enough to not make adjustments. When they put Adam Krumholz on the field, they might as well take the QB off the field and run wildcat because they dont pass. And this is several early downs a game
-I dont fully understand how, but they went from really good on third down to really bad with mostly the same personnel. Need to make some corrections there
-Dline depth still a concern. Maybe Dietzen and Mullens are ready to step in.
-OLB depth doesnt look good either and they need to generate some pass rush without AVG
-Whatever the hell happened to Scott Nelson in the Minnesota game needs to be corrected or the coaches need to be quick to pull the plug
-Would be nice if one or two of there abundance of "playable" cornerbacks takes leap forward; Williams, Wildgoose, Hicks, Cone, Harrell, etc.


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Offline  Re: Badgers Football 2019
#20

Posted: June 28, 2019, 7:49 AM Post
Posts: 4852
Location: Madison, WI
Yea for sure he was fast, no doubt. Probably comes a bit from lack of reps but IDK to my memory it was still different than what Mel could do or what I was getting at. And speed in pads is different, obviously Mel was much bigger to handle that, plus being a tall guy had bigger strides. I agree straight pure speed for sure Bennett was faster and Gordon wasn't even that ridiculous on that as he sometimes would get caught from behind. But that initial burst was crazy and that ability to just bounce outside so quickly be up to his top speed is what I was getting at. It messed up the angles of the defenders.

ZBTMP: The predictability on offense just has to be improved. It's just not good when guys 6 beers deep in the stands like me can call a huge chunk of the plays based on who's on the field. On that same idea, why do they almost exclusively only pass out of the shotgun 4 wide? The play action foundation play of the program went away and it doesn't take advantage of our biggest strength in the running game when they have 8 guys near the line.


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