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2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread

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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 12:25 PM Post
Posts: 22383
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
adambr2 said:
I'm ok with bringing back Crosby on a short reasonable deal, but he's coming off a really good year that history shows probably won't be repeated and his percentage benefitted in 2019 from almost all short kicks. I'm not interested in having to spend $5-6M a year or whatever to make him the highest paid kicker in the league if that's what it takes.

I will never for the life of me understand why Packer fans have been so in love the last decade with a kicker with a career FG% more than 3 points less than Cody Parkey who can't even find work.


This team has at least 10 priorities it needs to address before even thinking about making a change at kicker (or punter, another recent tangent of yours). Both of those positions are very minor in the scheme of this team's future success. I'm sure Crosby will sign another deal, and it likely will not be the most expensive deal for a kicker in the league. Ficken arguably looked better than him last preseason. He's gonna know he can't be greedy. Crosby is just fine, though, and will likely be just fine for at least the next 3 seasons.


"Tangent"? Ok Ron. As I said earlier, I fully expect Scott back, I was simply critical of his 2019 which I think is a pretty reasonable stance given the results, particularly in the second half. And as i said about Crosby I'm good with bringing him back on a short-term, reasonable deal.

There's a big difference however between making a change at a position where you have a free agent and one where you have a guy on a rookie contract. You're implying that making a change at kicker leaves less money for other priorities when you say "this team has at least 10 priorities it needs to address". Well no, it actually leaves more because you'd most likely be replacing with a rookie. Which will happen eventually, Crosby will get to the age where you'll just have to start over at kicker. Potentially you'd save about 5 million for those other needs.. But I agree that probably won't be yet.


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Online  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 12:28 PM Post
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I think the idea is that you don't want to create a hole on a team in hoping that the rookie you take out of North Dakota State or wherever can adjust to kicking in the NFL/at Lambeau in the winter, when you know that Crosby is fine.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 12:34 PM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
I think the idea is that you don't want to create a hole on a team in hoping that the rookie you take out of North Dakota State or wherever can adjust to kicking in the NFL/at Lambeau in the winter, when you know that Crosby is fine.


I like the performance value relative to their cap number that a solid rookie contract K can provide, especially when you're really trying to address other needs, but I understand that it doesn't always work out. I'm sure the Bucs remember the Roberto Aguayo saga well. Matt Gay was ok, not great as a rookie this season.

I don't think it's a very strong rookie class of kickers in 2020. I think the guy from Georgia is at the top and there isn't much else.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 12:35 PM Post
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xisxisxis said:
It takes a really special kind of stupid to complain about a rookie coach whose team went 13-3 in the regular season, including 6-0 in the division with 2 wins against a Vikings team that beat the 2nd best team in the NFC at their home in the playoffs, won a tough game at home in the playoffs and lost to the best team in the NFC at their home in the NFC championship. Any intelligent football analyst knew their was a talent gap between the Packers and Niners and for the Packers to win they had no margin for error and had to execute their game plans flawlessly. Didn't happen.


From his wikipedia page:

In September 2017, Mike Lombardi made headlines by criticizing Philadelphia Eagles coach Doug Pederson: "He might be less qualified to coach a team than anyone I’ve ever seen in my 30-plus years in the NFL.".[26]. Pederson would lead the Eagles to their first Super Bowl championship later that season.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 12:36 PM Post
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It definitely sounds like MLF wasn't thrilled with the effort given in the NFCCG.

https://sports.yahoo.com/did-matt-la-fl ... 59777.html


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 12:48 PM Post
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Man, he doesn't know what he just did with that soundbite. That's going to have legs through next season.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 1:27 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
PeaveyFury said:
I think the idea is that you don't want to create a hole on a team in hoping that the rookie you take out of North Dakota State or wherever can adjust to kicking in the NFL/at Lambeau in the winter, when you know that Crosby is fine.


I like the performance value relative to their cap number that a solid rookie contract K can provide, especially when you're really trying to address other needs, but I understand that it doesn't always work out. I'm sure the Bucs remember the Roberto Aguayo saga well. Matt Gay was ok, not great as a rookie this season.

I don't think it's a very strong rookie class of kickers in 2020. I think the guy from Georgia is at the top and there isn't much else.


That's the issue ... why create a hole for the sake of creating a hole? Why add another unknown to a team that already is likely to have several going into next season? Crosby seemingly wants to come back, isn't going to break the bank, and provides consistency. You're right ... they will need to eventually replace Crosby, and will likely do it with a young minimum-wage guy. But you don't do it following the best season of the guy's long, and actually pretty dang good career.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 1:32 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
It definitely sounds like MLF wasn't thrilled with the effort given in the NFCCG.

https://sports.yahoo.com/did-matt-la-fl ... 59777.html



I like it. He's correct in what he says and for all the talk the Packers players did in the week leading up to the game, they did not back it up by any means.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 2:20 PM Post
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Seems like an obvious point....but is there something with the west coast? Could be a total coincidence but by far their 3 worst games of the season all came traveling out west. Maybe the 49ers are just that bad of a matchup for the Packers, but the Chargers??


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 2:25 PM Post
Posts: 1366
Location: Washburn, WI
adambr2 said:
It definitely sounds like MLF wasn't thrilled with the effort given in the NFCCG.

https://sports.yahoo.com/did-matt-la-fl ... 59777.html


Good for him. He’s not exactly saying anything that people couldn’t already see. Down 27-0 at halftime in the NFCCG? That’s just horrendous. I see no issue with calling out your guys after that performance. They didn’t play like they cared much at all in the first half. Super Bowl appearance on the line and you can’t hype yourself up enough for that opportunity? Then there’s nothing that will get you out of bed in the morning if not even that will do it for you.

Pretty much all season, the defense lacked that tenacity, aggressive, and loose/fun feeling outside of the Smith brothers. The 13-3 season was awesome, but it really was kind of an odd feeling it seemed like when watching the games. They just kind of lacked that “it” feeling. The offense was kind of clunky all season, but even they didn’t exactly show a ton of fire all season outside of a handful of games.

I think part of the lack of attitude on the offensive side of the ball could be from the lack of consistency and learning a new system. The lack of having that swagger from the defense as a whole was more puzzling to me. Maybe if they bring in a couple young linebackers that have some attitude to them, it’ll help change that feeling on the defensive side. I was only able to watch about half the games this season, but that’s at least what I took away from watching them.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 3:09 PM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
Man, he doesn't know what he just did with that soundbite. That's going to have legs through next season.


I think he knew exactly what he was doing. It's a wake-up call, and most if not all the players know he's right.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 3:19 PM Post
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FVBrewerFan said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
Man, he doesn't know what he just did with that soundbite. That's going to have legs through next season.


I think he knew exactly what he was doing. It's a wake-up call, and most if not all the players know he's right.


Just announced that Pettine will be back for next year ... so there's that. I imagine the ice is a bit thinner for him now. I know Pettine was basically forced on Lafleur, so if there isn't improvement, I imagine change would be imminent. No one can say they haven't devoted a ton of money and draft capital to that side of the ball.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 3:41 PM Post
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RollieTime said:
adambr2 said:
It definitely sounds like MLF wasn't thrilled with the effort given in the NFCCG.

https://sports.yahoo.com/did-matt-la-fl ... 59777.html


Good for him. He’s not exactly saying anything that people couldn’t already see. Down 27-0 at halftime in the NFCCG? That’s just horrendous. I see no issue with calling out your guys after that performance. They didn’t play like they cared much at all in the first half. Super Bowl appearance on the line and you can’t hype yourself up enough for that opportunity? Then there’s nothing that will get you out of bed in the morning if not even that will do it for you.

Pretty much all season, the defense lacked that tenacity, aggressive, and loose/fun feeling outside of the Smith brothers. The 13-3 season was awesome, but it really was kind of an odd feeling it seemed like when watching the games. They just kind of lacked that “it” feeling. The offense was kind of clunky all season, but even they didn’t exactly show a ton of fire all season outside of a handful of games.

I think part of the lack of attitude on the offensive side of the ball could be from the lack of consistency and learning a new system. The lack of having that swagger from the defense as a whole was more puzzling to me. Maybe if they bring in a couple young linebackers that have some attitude to them, it’ll help change that feeling on the defensive side. I was only able to watch about half the games this season, but that’s at least what I took away from watching them.


A sad but reasonable explanation is that the Packers didn't expect to win outside of a few guys.

I catch a bit of Chmura on days I'm driving, and last week before the game he mentioned the 1995 NFCCG, and said the win over SF the week before had a Super Bowl feel to it. He said basically nobody thought they'd beat Dallas, despite leading in the 4th quarter. Think he used the phrase "house money." It wasn't like the year after where they all thought nobody would touch them.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 3:44 PM Post
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The Packers went from 6-9-1 to 13-3 and the defense went from 22nd to 9th in points. You don't get fired for that no matter how hard you get smacked, especially not by an offensive coach who probably doesn't have a grand plan on that side of the ball anyway.

I've been underwhelmed a bit by Pettine, honestly. But I'm OK with another year. They added some guys, now add some more and see if they can take that next step.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 4:07 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
It definitely sounds like MLF wasn't thrilled with the effort given in the NFCCG.

https://sports.yahoo.com/did-matt-la-fl ... 59777.html

How else could you explain giving up almost 300 yards rushing, 220 to a journeyman on his seventh team in five years, well over half of those before contact? The rushing defense Sunday was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen on a football field. Where was their pride? Where was their manhood? Lack of effort is all it could be. Even Mike Pettine's game plan wouldn't explain away that abortion of a performance.

And let's not forget Rodgers not making any effort to recover a fumbled snap. That was worse than Newton in the Super Bowl. At least Newton took a step or two toward the ball.

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 4:15 PM Post
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PinaMadness said:
adambr2 said:
It definitely sounds like MLF wasn't thrilled with the effort given in the NFCCG.

https://sports.yahoo.com/did-matt-la-fl ... 59777.html

How else could you explain giving up almost 300 yards rushing, 220 to a journeyman on his seventh team in five years, well over half of those before contact? The rushing defense Sunday was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen on a football field. Where was their pride? Where was their manhood? Lack of effort is all it could be. Even Mike Pettine's game plan wouldn't explain away that abortion of a performance.

And let's not forget Rodgers not making any effort to recover a fumbled snap. That was worse than Newton in the Super Bowl. At least Newton took a step or two toward the ball.


You could explain it by showing how LBs and Safeties were out of position and/or took horrible angles getting to the ball. Also this "journeyman" narrative that keeps coming up is irrelevant. He's a good RB regardless if he was #1 overall pick or an undrafted FA.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 5:50 PM Post
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PinaMadness said:
And let's not forget Rodgers not making any effort to recover a fumbled snap. That was worse than Newton in the Super Bowl. At least Newton took a step or two toward the ball.


Pump the brakes Cowherd. This play getting any traction is a reach-o-rama. Funny that nobody mentioned it until two or three days later.

Rodgers wasn't getting that ball. And no, it's not worse than Cam Newton, but I also thought that play was something of nothing as well.

Ripping Rodgers gets viewers. Nobody is talking about that play with anyone else.


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Online  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 6:18 PM Post
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I'm fine with Pettine getting another year, for continuity if nothing else; though I was fine if they let him go too. I think sometimes there is some value in continuity when you have a new staff, as you have build a defense that favors Pettine's system, and you want to continue to use the players identified as fitting in that scheme that you've build up over the past two years.

Knowing that resources this offseason need to be devoted to the offense, I'm not surprised they're keeping things similar on defense. But I think the leash should be pretty short from here. There has been a lot of improvement with a lot of investment in that side of the ball, and now the coaching needs to create improved results with that investment.


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Online  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 7:32 PM Post
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Per PFF's defensive rankings:
8th Overall
4th Pass-rushing
7th Coverage
25th Run Defense

https://twitter.com/PFF_Packers/status/ ... 9631333378
You really do wonder if the run defense would be ranked higher if they had people better than Lowry, Lancaster, and Martinez as your primary run stoppers.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Green Bay Packers Season Thread
Posted: January 22, 2020, 8:41 PM Post
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The fumble argument is one of the dumbest knocks I’ve heard around Twitter and such. Just uneducated football take. ARod’s momentum is going back. The awful snap barely hit his hands & went forward (not backwards) towards and past line of scrimmage. He would have had to fully stop his momentum on a dime dove through a moving Centers legs, crawled a little bit, and wrestle it was from a 300 pound lineman. Be different if ball was fumbled backwards or straight down but it wasn’t. Instead of wasting time made at ARod, why do all these people give Cory a free pass for having one of his worst snaps of his career. It was flat out awful. Just people wanting to get on ARod and blame him for something. His interception was ugly, I’d focus on that over a fumble he really wasn’t going to get nor any QB would. People act like it was bouncing by his feet and he just decided to ignore it.

I’m fine with Pettine coming back. He still needs a few more pieces though for sure! Our Front 7 is the Smith Bro’s & Clark. Lowry has moments, Martinez will clean up 4+ yards down field but we will not be good against run until we get another stud to add next to Clark & a downhill run stuffing backer. Martinez would thrive in a 3-4 as the Will with a mean & nasty Sam who plunges while he scraps. Sadly, we both don’t have a strong physical linebacker to pair with him nor do we run much base with two real linebackers in the middle. Even we do, he is pair with a Burks or someone else who is even worse than he is at plugging downhill. Martinez just is not strong or explosive enough to plug holes. He is a read & scrap guy.

FA will be so important this year. Sadly the ILB class is bad Littleton is a cover backer who pff ranked 103 of 126 against the run for backers. Schobert I think is better even he graded out iffy vs run. There are some good options at WR that we could get to take pressure off needing a WR in round 1. Such a loaded class, you can still get a good one in 2-3. However, if you don’t get Anderson, Green, Cooper, you need one of those high end studs.


My take
WR
I want Anderson. With awful offense and QB play his whole career, he has found ways to consistently make big plays downfield. Plus he has the size Gute likes. Green would be nice but guy is never on field. Cooper is too expensive. Cobb could come back if cheap enough. Still better than what we have. No matter what Gute needs to make splash in FA and draft to revamp awful core we currently have outside of Adams.

DE
Packers want an elite Defense.... you start by going out & dropping whatever is need to get Chris Jones at DE. It’s completely unlikely but I honestly don’t think he is far off of Donald. The attention he will receive just frees the Smith’s even more. Jones Clark Lowry with the Smith Boys on the outside is something no offensive line wants to deal with. For much cheaper get Leonard Williams who people really have written because he didn’t become the star he was suppose to but he is still a very solid 3-4 DE who can be good with Clark inside in Nickel and dime. Shelby Harris the Wisconsin boy who sadly was kicked out at UW for stealing video game systems with WR Appleton is a solid rotation piece to consider. Never been workhorse but has graded very well in his role. Could be good value add.

* Like Wilkerson, I take a chance on Williams. He flashed early in career and is only going to be 26. Jets haven’t been the model of getting most out of talent. Giants trade made zero sense and since college he had been a 3-4 end.

ILB
At inside backer. Martinez & his price will not make sense. Sadly, he may be best vs the run in FA class which just points to how bad class is. In the draft, Simmons will be long gone but Murray is the pissed off mean LB you’d like vs the run. He is a late first round option. Patrick Queen is a guy I’d love to have in 2nd. More complete backer than Murray but not as nasty. OSUs Malik Harrison is closer to Murray as a run first backer who needs to continue to grow in coverage. Logan Wilson of Wyoming is a guy I really like, hopefully 3rd or 4th round option. Overall, inside backers are not outstanding in this class.

TE
Hunter Henry not healthy often but when he is, he is a stud. Ebron broke out with Luck but Briskett did not help him repeat stellar season. Austin Hooper is underrated TE but could be a great add. As off now TE draft class is iffy & has awhile to be more defined. Rankings and reports are all over the place. Not a 1st round talent imo but solid option later on.


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