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2019 NFL Trade Deadline

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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#41

Posted: October 31, 2019, 6:42 PM Post
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Can't have been anything more than a due diligence inquiry. Expensive, devalued position, and we're fine with Jones and Williams at the position. Doesn't make a lot of sense as a fit to me.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#42

Posted: October 31, 2019, 7:23 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
LeVeon Bell claims both the Packers and Steelers tried to get him at the deadline.


Seems extremely odd if true. He held out for all of 2018 because the Steelers wouldn’t give him a long term deal. But now the Steelers would be willing to pick up the 3/$38 million or so left on his deal, plus the rest of his salary for this season while also trading away draft capital and/or players to get him back?


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Online  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#43

Posted: October 31, 2019, 8:20 PM Post
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RollieTime said:
MrTPlush said:
LeVeon Bell claims both the Packers and Steelers tried to get him at the deadline.


Seems extremely odd if true. He held out for all of 2018 because the Steelers wouldn’t give him a long term deal. But now the Steelers would be willing to pick up the 3/$38 million or so left on his deal, plus the rest of his salary for this season while also trading away draft capital and/or players to get him back?


Add to it that James Conner is arguably better anyway, and WAY cheaper.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#44

Posted: October 31, 2019, 9:46 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
LeVeon Bell claims both the Packers and Steelers tried to get him at the deadline.


I imagine Gute probably talks about a lot of things with a lot of teams, as any good GM should. That being said, I’ll believe the Packers actively tried to get Bell when, to paraphrase Chief O’Hagan, my poop turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet.

What is best in life? To crush the Cardinals, Cubs, and Manny Machado, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their fanboys.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#45

Posted: November 01, 2019, 2:14 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
RollieTime said:
MrTPlush said:
LeVeon Bell claims both the Packers and Steelers tried to get him at the deadline.


Seems extremely odd if true. He held out for all of 2018 because the Steelers wouldn’t give him a long term deal. But now the Steelers would be willing to pick up the 3/$38 million or so left on his deal, plus the rest of his salary for this season while also trading away draft capital and/or players to get him back?


Add to it that James Conner is arguably better anyway, and WAY cheaper.



I guess...in the same way that Dee Ford is "arguably," better than Mack maybe. It you're just playing devils advocate.


But it actually makes perfect sense. The Steelers don't have to pay the guaranteed money and they get him for far less than he was demanding before holding out last year.

The Steelers were TRYING to sign him. He wanted to be paid like a WR'er and a RB...and to be fair, he's such a unique talent, he was being undervalued. And then he went out and signed a really head scratching contract when you'd have thought he'd get at least 1 more year and 20 million more total.

But the Steelers get him for relatively cheap compared to what they were reportedly prepared to offer him with a chunk of that money already paid, and the Jets get a pick for a player that their Head Coach didn't think made sense for them anyway since he wasn't likely to be part of their rebuilding schedule.


The Packers make sense also in that you see how good this team is with a versatile back in this offense, one who can run the zone stretch and catch the ball out of the backfield, something nobody does better than Bell(maybe more often, but he does almost run routes like a WR'er). But not at that price.


But while on the topic of RB's, this has made me think about the Packers and Taylor. I definitely want to see a OT picked early as well as a quicker, more sudden WR'er, but if there isn't a great one available, or Taylor fell to the 2nd round, he'd be a PERFECT fit in this offense and the type of guy who you could rotate in and not miss a beat for if Jones went down.

Williams does not have great vision(and Dexter Williams is even worse). That's pretty huge in this scheme. So being able to keep guys healthy out there at RB would be enormous.

But I wouldn't be spending more than 4-5 million per on a back and I would definitely prefer to find one in rounds 3-5.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#46

Posted: November 01, 2019, 2:23 AM Post
Posts: 4196
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
HiAndTight said:
Ok...but they did end up in the Super Bowl last year and it certainly wasn't because of their Super Bowl that they lost. I think everyone can agree on that, right? It's pretty hard to argue with those results.

Arguing that Ramsey isn't going to work out is too vague for me. What means it hasn't worked out? Did the Bears trade for Mack not work out because a year after the Bears went 12-4, they're not struggling?
I don't know what people would expect him to suddenly start to struggle, but it does seem like that's what you're hinting at by conflating the Talib acquisition and the Ramsey one. Again, 32(now nearly 34) vs a just turned 25 year old 1st Team AP.


I'm not advocating that Ramsey will struggle. I actually think he'll be ok. I just think that the acquisition cost was WAY too high ... to the point where he pretty much has to operate at an All-Pro, defensive MVP level to justify it. But I wouldn't have done the Mack deal, either. The Bears in my opinion are even further away than the Rams, and while stars win regular season games, teams with solid depth typically win championships. I guess overall I'm just not a fan of the Rams philosophy on team-building.



Yeah, we just see it 100 pct differently. Teams with "solid depth," typically do well in the regular season, teams with Superstars who are among the best in the NFL at their position if not THEE best win Championships.

The Bronco's won the Super Bowl because they had a dominant pass rusher in Von. The Bears went 12-4 because they had a dominant pass rusher in Mack.

The Seahawks have won because of their secondary and ground game. They've had rather poor depth and OL play.


The Rams now have arguably the best WR'ing core in the NFL, the best interior pass rusher in the NFL and reigning DPOY and the best shutdown corner in the NFL.

Doesn't mean I think all their moves have been smart, but you have to search pretty hard to find two players the Bears could have drafted that could have elevated their defense the way Mack has. Now Eddie Jackson is one of the best Safeties in the NFL. Hell, Clinton-Dix is an elite safety now playing in their downhill style. Fuller...these guys all broke out once Mack got there.


I am absolutely confident if the Bears stick with Mack, they'll have ONE year in the next 6-7 where they have a season like '85 in which their defense is so good, it carries them with a average QB and a couple of good skill players.

Ramsey being a CB is a little bit different, Corner is probably 4th on the list of most important positions behind QB, Edge/Tackle and then CB. But a great one can have such a rippling impact on your defense...you can leave him on a guy like Hopkins all game long and then shade your coverage to other positions.


But yeah, I guess we just fundamentally disagree. I think teams with great players, even if they have less depth are much-much better in the biggest games while the deeper teams with depth but not the front line talent are far more suited for the regular season.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#47

Posted: November 01, 2019, 6:23 AM Post
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It doesn't matter if Mack has a season with 30 sacks. If they are still trotting out Mitch Trubisky types they won't do anything. Their defense is great now and they still suck. It was the most predictable thing ever. He is an absolute stiff. It made much more sense for the Packers to pair a guy like that with the twilight of Rodgers career than for the Bears to get him.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#48

Posted: November 01, 2019, 6:33 AM Post
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All that glowing talk about Mack and not one mention of Akeem Hicks. Since Hicks went down, keeping Mack in check has become a much easier task. Perhaps Mack isn't on his own the difference maker many want to proclaim him to be. Lol at HaHa playing like an elite safety. If anything the Bears are proving what should be a hard and fast rule by now - only QBs are worth mortgaging the future for. And few of them are worth it at that. The Bears are going absolutely nowhere in the next (6-7 years!) unless they pull a QB out of their rear. Mack is 28 years old. Such an odd timeline to grant them (6-7 years!) to have an '85-type season because of Mack. By the time they have the draft capital and cap room to fix their gaping holes at QB, OL, and TE, Mack will be nearing the end of his contract and pushing his mid 30s.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#49

Posted: November 01, 2019, 6:36 AM Post
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Other guys have remained good pass rushers past 33ish so I'm not convinced he'll fall off a cliff, but he's a great player. I agree with with your main point but Mack is a generational talent. It still really sucks we couldn't get him.

But I couldn't care less about the Bears. They're the same team they've been for most of the last 25 years.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#50

Posted: November 01, 2019, 6:37 AM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
Other guys have remained good pass rushers past 33ish so I'm not convinced he'll fall off a cliff, but he's a great player. I agree with with your main point but Mack is a generational talent. It still really sucks we couldn't get him.

But I couldn't care less about the Bears. They're the same team they've been for most of the last 25 years.


I'm not assuming he'll drop off either, but he's not likely to get much better. And current, in his prime Mack is taking them nowhere.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#51

Posted: November 01, 2019, 8:05 AM Post
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The Broncos won a Super Bowl with Von Miller in the last year of his rookie contract. How has that team looked since he’s been paid at market rate? I’d also like to point out that the Packers have basically gotten the Smiths, Savage, and Gary for what it would have costed to add Mack (in terms of free agent dollars and draft picks).


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#52

Posted: November 01, 2019, 9:25 AM Post
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Haha is not elite. As TBBC mentioned, losing Hicks has really affected the Bears particularly in the run game. They are not what they were last year for sure. I thought the Bears trading for Mack was a huge risk for them. Basically they were putting all their eggs in the Trubisky basket and it totally backfired. Now they either need to trade for or sign a veteran (and most likely average) QB that can simply manage a game, get the run game back up to elite status, and hope the defense returns to dominance. I don't see all of those things happening this year for sure...and probably not next year.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Online  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#53

Posted: November 01, 2019, 10:07 AM Post
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I guess no additional risk was really added with Mack. If Trubisky doesn't work out it is already crippling enough. In the NFL you either find a QB or it really doesn't matter what you do right or wrong. Trubisky was decent last year...good enough for that team to win a Super Bowl if things went right. Unfortunately in his third year he has not improved and instead is going backwards. I don't know for sure, but it seems expectations and pressure may get to him a bit. It certainly isn't looking good for him or the Bears at this point.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#54

Posted: November 01, 2019, 10:59 AM Post
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I think trading all those high draft picks was a risk.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#55

Posted: November 01, 2019, 3:45 PM Post
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homer said:
I think trading all those high draft picks was a risk.


Absolutely.

Trading away all those picks for Mack became high risk not because of Mack. It was high risk because it ensured the Bears wouldn't have the draft capital to quickly recover if Trubisky was a bust and needed to be replaced. It was also a risk because the contract they gave Mack all but takes free agency off the table to find a QB short of gutting the rest of the roster. The Bears paths to success are about as narrow as anyone in the league unless Trubisky makes a complete 180 from what he looks like now.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#56

Posted: November 02, 2019, 3:29 AM Post
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True Blue Brew Crew said:
All that glowing talk about Mack and not one mention of Akeem Hicks. Since Hicks went down, keeping Mack in check has become a much easier task. Perhaps Mack isn't on his own the difference maker many want to proclaim him to be. Lol at HaHa playing like an elite safety. If anything the Bears are proving what should be a hard and fast rule by now - only QBs are worth mortgaging the future for. And few of them are worth it at that. The Bears are going absolutely nowhere in the next (6-7 years!) unless they pull a QB out of their rear. Mack is 28 years old. Such an odd timeline to grant them (6-7 years!) to have an '85-type season because of Mack. By the time they have the draft capital and cap room to fix their gaping holes at QB, OL, and TE, Mack will be nearing the end of his contract and pushing his mid 30s.


All that glowing talk about Mack and not one mention of Akeem Hicks.


I've probably mentioned Hicks about a dozen times when talking about the Beers this year. It's funny given how much of an interest you've taken in my posts you'd miss that.

Perhaps Mack isn't on his own the difference maker many want to proclaim him to be.


Ok, so you're saying what exactly about Mack? You never seem to come out and actually make your point.

The Bears are 17-7 since they traded for Mack. They were 5-11 and 3-13 the previous two seasons. Seems like Mack has had a little bit of an impact on their team.

Lol at HaHa playing like an elite safety.


He hasn't performed well in Chicago? Please explain. He's played much better than Eddie Jackson according to PFF. I seem to remember you arguing that was a good way to evaluate a player.

In fact, he's got a higher grade than anyone on the Packers defense other than Za'Darius Smith..."LOL."


The rest of your post is just a long way of saying, "nuh-uh." Which is fine. You don't have to agree. But keep in mind, the Bears won 12 games last year, lost a playoff game on a chip shot FG that hit the uprights. And this year they've played a much more difficult schedule.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#57

Posted: November 02, 2019, 3:35 AM Post
Posts: 4196
MrTPlush said:
I guess no additional risk was really added with Mack. If Trubisky doesn't work out it is already crippling enough. In the NFL you either find a QB or it really doesn't matter what you do right or wrong. Trubisky was decent last year...good enough for that team to win a Super Bowl if things went right. Unfortunately in his third year he has not improved and instead is going backwards. I don't know for sure, but it seems expectations and pressure may get to him a bit. It certainly isn't looking good for him or the Bears at this point.



This was pretty much the Bears of the 80's. Elite defensive talent but they didn't have a very good QB. Last year if that kick doesn't hit the uprights twice against Philly, maybe that's the year.

And obviously having a QB is important in the NFL, but the year the Bronco's won it, Manning could barely throw a ball. They won because of an elite pass rush and a great defense. I think the Bears will put together a team like that while they've got Mack(and Hicks, Jackson, Smith, Fuller, Floyd, etc...)


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Online  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#58

Posted: November 02, 2019, 7:04 AM Post
Posts: 12467
That’s the thing though...you aren’t recovering quickly if Trubisky busts. First off you are going to give him countless chances to work out and secondly if he flops you are not finding someone overnight. If you draft someone else it’s likely a few years before they become something. Now you are 5+ years down the road far away from trading all the picks away, best case. If Trubisky flops the horse is dead...you can beat it some more saying the picks were wasted, but it doesn’t matter a whole lot.

Everything is a risk...I just don’t think it’s that big of a deal if Trubisky sucks. The ship is sunk already at that point.


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Online  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#59

Posted: November 02, 2019, 7:11 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:
That’s the thing though...you aren’t recovering quickly if Trubisky busts. First off you are going to give him countless chances to work out and secondly if he flops you are not finding someone overnight. If you draft someone else it’s likely a few years before they become something. Now you are 5+ years down the road far away from trading all the picks away, best case. If Trubisky flops the horse is dead...you can beat it some more saying the picks were wasted, but it doesn’t matter a whole lot.

Everything is a risk...I just don’t think it’s that big of a deal if Trubisky sucks. The ship is sunk already at that point.


This is exactly right. You have zero draft capital to try and get a better option, and the Mack contract left them with one of the lowest (28th in the league) in cap space for 2020. That's barely enough to cover what's left of your draft class, let alone signing a marquee QB as a viable starting option.


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Offline  Re: 2019 NFL Trade Deadline
#60

Posted: November 02, 2019, 7:18 AM Post
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HiAndTight, what you aren't addressing despite it being said by many, is that the Bears don't have the means to significantly add to what they have. And that's largely in part because of what they invested in a non-QB. Not one person has said that Mack isn't a good player. He is somewhat less effective without Hicks on the field though and that is an indicator that he's not quite the difference maker you're making him out to be. You keep bringing up the Broncos with Manning and Miller yet conveniently ignore the point made by nodakfan17 about Miller being on his rookie deal. The Broncos have been a bottom feeding team since they paid Miller. And that's a huge factor with Mack. Not only did they trade away the proven most likely means of acquiring a franchise QB (1st round picks) they handed out a massive contract to do it.

The Bears have among the most depleted resources in the league with which to add talent. Both in terms of draft picks and cap. All those quotes and yet that one gets left out. The final head scratcher from you was excusing the Bears poor results this season due to their tough schedule. Yet no mention of the benefit realized last year due to a weak schedule. Could it be that the Bears folded in the playoffs because they finally played a good team? The "come out of nowhere season" on the strength of a weak schedule, bow out quickly in the playoffs, then fall off the cliff playing a first place schedule the following season, is a pattern repeated by fluke teams just about every season. The 2019 Bears are checking off every box to indicate 2018 was a fluke.

And you really haven't answered how this bounce back is going to happen, somewhere in the next 6-7 years. That's quite the window you've allowed for your prediction. Is Trubisky going to learn how to read a defense, throw to 2nd or 3rd options on a play, or magically begin throwing an accurate pass downfield? Or are the Bears going to find a new franchise QB with no high draft picks and no cap space short of cutting players off an already hole-filled roster?

And that's not even getting into the fact they have a head coach who decides a 40 yard plus FG is a chip shot with over 40 seconds, first down, and a timeout in his pocket. He didn't even think it was important to get the ball in the middle of the field, and instead had his kicker kick from the left hash on a miss that went just wide left. This in a game in which he declared his trust in his RB and o-line to get the job done then showed zero confidence in them getting a very conceivable 5-10 yards to make the FG a true chip shot. At minimum they could have run the ball to the center between the hashes to make the kick straight on. Nagy only adds to the likelihood 2018 was a fluke. New drastically different offense with unscouted looks, plays to his very limited QB's strengths, then the league catches up with them and turns them back into pumpkins. Last year they threw to Cohen like he was a WR and they guy looked like a video game. Now, when they throw to Cohen defenses are swallowing him up before he can get moving. A few weeks ago he had an eye-opening game where he caught 9 passes for a whopping 19 yards. That's what happens when a defense is no longer caught off guard by an offense. It's also what happens when a defense has no fear of the QB completing passes downfield.

So, I could go on about the massive decline in their offensive line play and the fact they carry 4 TEs without having a single good one. Instead I'll just rest on the fact that the Bears don't have a QB, might not have a head coach, a cascade of holes on offense, and lack the resources to do much about it.


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