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2020 Packers Draft Thread

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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 27, 2020, 3:21 PM Post
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I understand the logic behind *some of* the moves. I still hate the moves.

Obviously, I'm not alone, as the grades from our draft from almost any source range from "bad" to "horrifcly bad".

I understand draft grading isn't perfect and you can't really completely evaluate them for 2 to 3 years. But you won't find many "awful" drafts that turn out to be "terrific" in retrospect. Nor do you find many that get graded terrific that turn out to be awful in retrospect. Both happen, but they are very, very rare.

Most drafts are right there in the middle and usually are the ones that can go either way.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 27, 2020, 3:25 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
Do you want a lousy QB in any situation? It usually helps to have that position be good.


Certainly you want a great QB in any situation, but they're certainly more critical for pass heavy operations.

I can understand his point that a run first offense needs a top defense to be championship level and we didn't do much to address that. We must be counting on tremendous second year strides from guys like Gary and Savage and really hoping to get positive contributions from Christian Kirksey.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 27, 2020, 3:33 PM Post
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Just because GB didn't trade up doesn't mean they didn't have the capital to do so. It could mean that other teams didn't want to move down (had their eye on particular players), or that other (NFC) teams probably don't want to help make GB any better and wanted GB to overpay. It takes two to tango. Remember, Seattle asked for more for #27 than Miami wanted for #26 because Gutes was on the phone with Seattle and said, "Hold on, we have a better offer".

It said "early/mid 2nd round", so Mims/Jefferson were not the guys they wanted and Claypool/Hamler probably were not the guys - they probably were Higgins, Pittman, or Shenault. The 4th round pick wasn't going to move them up to the early 2nd; that would have taken their 3rd round pick.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 27, 2020, 3:51 PM Post
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agreed, the packers could have traded up, even if it meant overpaying. For example the saints completely overpaid the packers to move up 2 seasons ago, Packers could have done something like that, but it takes 2 to tango.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 27, 2020, 6:18 PM Post
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LouisEly said:
Just because GB didn't trade up doesn't mean they didn't have the capital to do so. It could mean that other teams didn't want to move down (had their eye on particular players), or that other (NFC) teams probably don't want to help make GB any better and wanted GB to overpay. It takes two to tango. Remember, Seattle asked for more for #27 than Miami wanted for #26 because Gutes was on the phone with Seattle and said, "Hold on, we have a better offer".

It said "early/mid 2nd round", so Mims/Jefferson were not the guys they wanted and Claypool/Hamler probably were not the guys - they probably were Higgins, Pittman, or Shenault. The 4th round pick wasn't going to move them up to the early 2nd; that would have taken their 3rd round pick.


The 4th round pick moved them to 26 in the 1st round. And i mentioned that 5th. Or 6ths would have moved them up a little to grab Mims/Van but it would take the 3rd to move up at least where the upper group of WRs were picked. Too much to afford losing the 3rd round pick when your tunnel vision was set on Dillon.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 27, 2020, 9:36 PM Post
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If they thought highly of Mims, they would have moved up for him. They tried to move up to the early/mid 2nd round according to Peter King; if they tried moving up to the early/mid 2nd to get a WR, they surely would have moved up a couple of slots to get Mims if they liked him better than Dillon. They just didn't think that highly of Mims.

It wasn't tunnel vision; it's that they think Dillon will be a more valuable piece to their offense than Mims or any other WRs who were available then.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 28, 2020, 5:39 AM Post
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LouisEly said:
If they thought highly of Mims, they would have moved up for him. They tried to move up to the early/mid 2nd round according to Peter King; if they tried moving up to the early/mid 2nd to get a WR, they surely would have moved up a couple of slots to get Mims if they liked him better than Dillon. They just didn't think that highly of Mims.

It wasn't tunnel vision; it's that they think Dillon will be a more valuable piece to their offense than Mims or any other WRs who were available then.


The next RB taken was at 76. 86 after that and 93 just before our 3rd round pick. There were a number of higher pre-draft guys expected to be gone before then, like Baun. Why not have traded down? After you traded up? If that WR group he was clamoring to snag one was all gone that was 13 picks or more from your selection, there is a great amount of time to get on the phone alert youre looking to trade down. And Id have to assume some of the same notion with Deguara. How is he not capable to move back where the pick more suits the value to the player? Like I said earlier I would estimate he could have gotten a top 100 pick with the value of not reaching on his picks. Lets just go with pick 1 or 2 of 4th rd. Akeem Gaither OLB or Saahdiq Charles OT from LSU. Its the 2nd draft bringing this up. We'll see if it happens again next season. Will he learn from this post draft media ranking and adjust his style? Or will he be out there spending $20 for $17 return value.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 28, 2020, 6:06 AM Post
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brewcrewdue80 said:
LouisEly said:
If they thought highly of Mims, they would have moved up for him. They tried to move up to the early/mid 2nd round according to Peter King; if they tried moving up to the early/mid 2nd to get a WR, they surely would have moved up a couple of slots to get Mims if they liked him better than Dillon. They just didn't think that highly of Mims.

It wasn't tunnel vision; it's that they think Dillon will be a more valuable piece to their offense than Mims or any other WRs who were available then.


The next RB taken was at 76. 86 after that and 93 just before our 3rd round pick. There were a number of higher pre-draft guys expected to be gone before then, like Baun. Why not have traded down? After you traded up? If that WR group he was clamoring to snag one was all gone that was 13 picks or more from your selection, there is a great amount of time to get on the phone alert youre looking to trade down. And Id have to assume some of the same notion with Deguara. How is he not capable to move back where the pick more suits the value to the player? Like I said earlier I would estimate he could have gotten a top 100 pick with the value of not reaching on his picks. Lets just go with pick 1 or 2 of 4th rd. Akeem Gaither OLB or Saahdiq Charles OT from LSU. Its the 2nd draft bringing this up. We'll see if it happens again next season. Will he learn from this post draft media ranking and adjust his style? Or will he be out there spending $20 for $17 return value.


If he adjusts his style because of post-draft grades, he should be fired. Post-draft grades are for the fans. All he should care about is how the draft is graded 3-5 years from now.

As it has been said before, you need to accept that the Packers' draft values are different than yours. And so far, that has worked out pretty well in a lot of ways. We'll see if this works out well over the next couple of years as well. Also, trading down doesn't happen without a 2nd willing party. Considering where the Packers were positioned later in the rounds, it's very feasible that interest in their picks was limited. We'll never know what was or wasn't an actual option, it's all just theory and speculation by us fans who know very little overall about the process.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 28, 2020, 8:01 AM Post
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I could care less what pundits rated a draft two days after it happened. Post draft grades the day after are hilarious to read a few years later.

For example, the 2011 seahawks draft was given F to D plus grades by many experts. That draft included kj Wright in the 4th and Richard Sherman in the 5th. They had few early round picks due to other trades, but they also landed two starting offensive lineman in those rounds for the team that won a super bowl.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 28, 2020, 10:21 AM Post
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brewcrewdue80 said:
LouisEly said:
If they thought highly of Mims, they would have moved up for him. They tried to move up to the early/mid 2nd round according to Peter King; if they tried moving up to the early/mid 2nd to get a WR, they surely would have moved up a couple of slots to get Mims if they liked him better than Dillon. They just didn't think that highly of Mims.

It wasn't tunnel vision; it's that they think Dillon will be a more valuable piece to their offense than Mims or any other WRs who were available then.


The next RB taken was at 76. 86 after that and 93 just before our 3rd round pick. There were a number of higher pre-draft guys expected to be gone before then, like Baun. Why not have traded down? After you traded up? If that WR group he was clamoring to snag one was all gone that was 13 picks or more from your selection, there is a great amount of time to get on the phone alert youre looking to trade down. And Id have to assume some of the same notion with Deguara. How is he not capable to move back where the pick more suits the value to the player? Like I said earlier I would estimate he could have gotten a top 100 pick with the value of not reaching on his picks. Lets just go with pick 1 or 2 of 4th rd. Akeem Gaither OLB or Saahdiq Charles OT from LSU. Its the 2nd draft bringing this up. We'll see if it happens again next season. Will he learn from this post draft media ranking and adjust his style? Or will he be out there spending $20 for $17 return value.

May I present to you the 2005 Green Bay Packers draft:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2005/2005-report-card-report

Green Bay: The discrepancy here is all about Aaron Rodgers. Bell understands why they took Rodgers but says it "prevented the choice of an immediate impact player." Rang and Borges cannot overlook the value of getting Rodgers with the 24th pick, and the Rodgers selection is the only thing cited by Maske in giving them an A. The other point of contention is which needs that the Packers addressed. Rang loves the pick of receivers Terrance Murphy in the third round and Craig Bragg in the sixth, while Kiper, who likes Murphy, says the Packers did not need a receiver and that "there is just not enough defensive help in this class." Everyone agrees that second round pick Nick Collins, a cornerback from Bethune-Cookman, was a major reach. I think Pierson may sum it up best: "If Rodgers eventually replaces Favre with any degree of success, it will be a great draft. Grade: C-." [laughing]

"Everyone agrees that second round pick Nick Collins... was a major reach." [embarassed]

Even without hindsight, after Green Bay made the pick the Ravens GM called TT and congratulated him because they were going to pick Collins two picks later in the 2nd round.

Fan reactions:
https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/Fans-mixed-on-Packers-draft-104192879/

My favorite one:

Draft Grade: F-
Here's why: Is Thompson still working for Seattle? When I watched opposing offenses run roughshod over the pathetic GB defense (a line that puts almost no pressure on the QB, backs who can't defend the pass - unless, of course they hold, players who can't tackle) ("Remember the Titans" isn't just a movie title), my first thought wasn't, "what this team really needs is a backup QB."
It doesn't matter who the defensive coordinator is. If your players have no talent (or brains, Draft pick Nick Collins scored a 10 on the Wonderlic test!), you're not going to stop the opposing offense. One of the few players from last years team with talent now wears purple, and the defense gets zero help from the draft?
[embarassed]

Nobody has any idea what a team's draft board looks like, no matter how many internet yahoo's rankings they look at. There's a reason they are writing on the internet and not employed by a NFL team to do pre-draft evaluations.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 28, 2020, 11:11 AM Post
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Saw an interesting stat today: AJ Dillon ran into a stacked box 44% of the time. Jonathan Taylor? 20%

From this article:
https://sportsinfosolutionsblog.com/202 ... 020-draft/

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 28, 2020, 11:28 AM Post
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LouisEly said:
May I present to you the 2005 Green Bay Packers draft:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2005/2005-report-card-report

Green Bay: The discrepancy here is all about Aaron Rodgers. Bell understands why they took Rodgers but says it "prevented the choice of an immediate impact player." Rang and Borges cannot overlook the value of getting Rodgers with the 24th pick, and the Rodgers selection is the only thing cited by Maske in giving them an A. The other point of contention is which needs that the Packers addressed. Rang loves the pick of receivers Terrance Murphy in the third round and Craig Bragg in the sixth, while Kiper, who likes Murphy, says the Packers did not need a receiver and that "there is just not enough defensive help in this class." Everyone agrees that second round pick Nick Collins, a cornerback from Bethune-Cookman, was a major reach. I think Pierson may sum it up best: "If Rodgers eventually replaces Favre with any degree of success, it will be a great draft. Grade: C-." [laughing]

"Everyone agrees that second round pick Nick Collins... was a major reach." [embarassed]

Even without hindsight, after Green Bay made the pick the Ravens GM called TT and congratulated him because they were going to pick Collins two picks later in the 2nd round.

Fan reactions:
https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/Fans-mixed-on-Packers-draft-104192879/

My favorite one:

Draft Grade: F-
Here's why: Is Thompson still working for Seattle? When I watched opposing offenses run roughshod over the pathetic GB defense (a line that puts almost no pressure on the QB, backs who can't defend the pass - unless, of course they hold, players who can't tackle) ("Remember the Titans" isn't just a movie title), my first thought wasn't, "what this team really needs is a backup QB."
It doesn't matter who the defensive coordinator is. If your players have no talent (or brains, Draft pick Nick Collins scored a 10 on the Wonderlic test!), you're not going to stop the opposing offense. One of the few players from last years team with talent now wears purple, and the defense gets zero help from the draft?
[embarassed]

Nobody has any idea what a team's draft board looks like, no matter how many internet yahoo's rankings they look at. There's a reason they are writing on the internet and not employed by a NFL team to do pre-draft evaluations.


Thanks for sharing. I do remember how panned that draft was, especially after Rodgers sat and Collins struggled his first season or two.

And man, how even better that draft would look if not for two spine injuries. We'll never know what Murphy would have become, but Collins' career was cut short maybe halfway through a career that may have been on a HOF-like trajectory. You pull two HOFers from a draft, that's legendary stuff.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 28, 2020, 11:37 AM Post
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I'm fine with Love, but I don't think it's quite as simple as Rodgers was good so it was the right pick. When you consider the Packers won 13 games in 2007 and Brett Favre still had 5 years of mostly good football left, you can certainly make an argument that had they hit on another player with that Rodgers pick, it could have, possibly, gotten Brett Favre another title. Roddy White went four picks later, Frank Gore was picked a couple rounds later. I'm going from memory but I believe Tatupu went mid 2nd too. Rodgers was other-worldly good, so no one has issues with the pick now, but there's still an argument that a) someone else could have helped Favre win faster/more, and b) the Packers could have found another QB between 2005 and 2010. Probably not one as good though.

I am not suggesting Rodgers was a bad pick, just that I think there's more gray area than how Love turns out. He can turn out fine and I think it's still OK to be upset with the pick. Personally I just never cared for getting worked up in the immediate aftermath of a draft.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 28, 2020, 12:05 PM Post
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homer said:
Saw an interesting stat today: AJ Dillon ran into a stacked box 44% of the time. Jonathan Taylor? 20%

From this article:
https://sportsinfosolutionsblog.com/202 ... 020-draft/


This was a good read. Thanks for sharing that.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 28, 2020, 4:47 PM Post
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homer said:
Saw an interesting stat today: AJ Dillon ran into a stacked box 44% of the time. Jonathan Taylor? 20%

From this article:
https://sportsinfosolutionsblog.com/202 ... 020-draft/

Speaking of Jonathan Taylor, Marlon Mack of the Colts rushed for more yards than Aaron Jones did last year, and it didn't stop the Colts from taking Taylor 21 spot ahead of where the Packers picked Dillon. They already had a starter at RB.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: April 28, 2020, 5:01 PM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
I'm fine with Love, but I don't think it's quite as simple as Rodgers was good so it was the right pick. When you consider the Packers won 13 games in 2007 and Brett Favre still had 5 years of mostly good football left, you can certainly make an argument that had they hit on another player with that Rodgers pick, it could have, possibly, gotten Brett Favre another title. Roddy White went four picks later, Frank Gore was picked a couple rounds later. I'm going from memory but I believe Tatupu went mid 2nd too. Rodgers was other-worldly good, so no one has issues with the pick now, but there's still an argument that a) someone else could have helped Favre win faster/more, and b) the Packers could have found another QB between 2005 and 2010. Probably not one as good though.

I am not suggesting Rodgers was a bad pick, just that I think there's more gray area than how Love turns out. He can turn out fine and I think it's still OK to be upset with the pick. Personally I just never cared for getting worked up in the immediate aftermath of a draft.

Between 2005 and 2010 the Packers could have taken a QB with their first draft pick every year, and the best they would have gotten was...








Image

If the Packers would have taken an immediate impact player, maybe they win a few more games in 2005 and if they draft after #11 in 2006 the best they could have gotten was Ryan Fitzpatrick.

People greatly overestimate the number of good QBs who have come into the league in the last 15 years.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: May 01, 2020, 8:54 AM Post
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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... hing-tool/

"Deguara, a third round tight end/fullback out of Cincinnati, was used by Packers coach Matt LaFleur in a team meeting last year as an example of the way LaFleur wants his players to play the game.

Specifically, LaFleur showed the Packers a highlight of Deguara running down a UCLA player after an interception, hustling to make a tackle on what otherwise would have been a pick-six."


Honestly, I like the guy considerably more after knowing this. Not 100% sure he was worth a 3rd round pick, but that's academic at this point.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: May 01, 2020, 10:30 AM Post
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LouisEly said:
homer said:
Saw an interesting stat today: AJ Dillon ran into a stacked box 44% of the time. Jonathan Taylor? 20%

From this article:
https://sportsinfosolutionsblog.com/202 ... 020-draft/

Speaking of Jonathan Taylor, Marlon Mack of the Colts rushed for more yards than Aaron Jones did last year, and it didn't stop the Colts from taking Taylor 21 spot ahead of where the Packers picked Dillon. They already had a starter at RB.


Marlon Mack is also a FA after next year much like Jones (I believe). Not like either team has some stud lined up for the next 3+ years.

Guessing both teams don’t eye their current RB as a long term solutions, probably because of money.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: May 03, 2020, 3:02 PM Post
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I think the Dillon pick says a lot more of what they think about Jamaal Williams than it does about Aaron Jones' contract status.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Packers Draft Thread
Posted: May 03, 2020, 6:31 PM Post
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trwi7 said:
I think the Dillon pick says a lot more of what they think about Jamaal Williams than it does about Aaron Jones' contract status.


No doubt a Thunder for Jones' Lightning. It'd be great if they could work a 3 year extension deal with Jones. No doubt Rodgers has a chemistry with him in the passing game.


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