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2020 Miscellaneous NFL News

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Offline  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 1:07 PM Post
Posts: 9669
nate82 said:
FVBrewerFan said:
nate82 said:
The only way I see the NFC teams winning is if they can keep the Chiefs or Steelers below 24 pts any higher and they don't have a chance.


I would say just the opposite. The Packers are more likely to beat those teams in a shoot-out than they are keeping them under 24 points. That would be Seattle's best chance also.


I disagree the Packers completely folded and gave up in the Tampa Bay game. If they get in a shootout and they get behind that defense will just crumble and shutdown.


I just don't follow that logic. You believe keeping the Chiefs under 24 points is the best chance they have to win? Sure, but that's not realistic. That's like saying the best chance to beat the Lakers is keep them under 80 points. But the Packers offense IS good enough to beat the Chiefs 37-34 or something like that.


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Online  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 1:41 PM Post
Posts: 8408
adambr2 said:
nodakfan17 said:
For the final 3 years of Sherman’s tenure at Texas A&M, he had Ryan Tannehill on the roster, but chose to play him at wide receiver. Kevin Sumlin replaced Sherman in 2012 and went 11-2 with Tannehill at quarterback.


This is the man that Ron Wolf gave the full reigns of the Green Bay Packers to. Wow, just wow. Wolf was an amazing GM, but his worst mistake was entrusting this organization to Sherman, who was far and away the worst GM in franchise history.

As far as Sherman the HC, him and MM are having me start to believe that NFL head coaches don't matter that much, and as long as you have an elite QB and a somewhat competent coaching staff that you can delegate to, you can win a lot of games no matter who you are.

I wouldn't go as far as saying he was far and away the worst. I don't even think he is. Bart Starr was pretty bad, and a couple of his predecessors were also. I don't even think they were football guys. Trading away a handful of high draft picks for an over the hill Hadl that set the franchise back five years. Starr passing on Montana and Lott among other bad decisions. At least we were winning under Sherman's watch.


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Online  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 2:37 PM Post
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Not only were they winning under Sherman, they were not winning before he arrived. They went 8-8 under Rhodes and 9-7 in Sherman's first year. I remember very clearly at the time that they appeared to be a franchise in an obvious decline that was not going to be real competitive in the near future. The aforementioned demise of his career also isn't exactly accurate.

-The Texans offense improved a lot with him as the OC
-The Aggies won a division title and Tannehill was a pretty decent WR before making the switch
-He went back to the NFL in Miami before going to coach a bad HS team, so his reputation hadn't really spiraled downward.
-This all occurred over a very long period of time.

I don't think Mike Sherman is a great NFL coach, but I have always felt and still feel that he got an extremely bad shake from the fans and continues to get one, solely because Brett Favre was blameless for most of his entire career and it reached a peak at right about that time. Their mistake was letting him be a GM. But he was not even close to their worst HC.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 3:10 PM Post
Posts: 26927
I never said in my post that he was the worst HC in franchise history and I don't believe he was. I said worst GM, but it's a fair point that Starr and other guys around that era were pretty bad.

But I think Sherman was on that level. He just fortunately didn't have enough time to do a ton of damage. I still remember him sacrificing a 4th and 5th to move up in the 3rd to take a punter who was a disaster here. He just didn't seem to have a clue what he was doing.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 3:18 PM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
I don't think Mike Sherman is a great NFL coach, but I have always felt and still feel that he got an extremely bad shake from the fans and continues to get one, solely because Brett Favre was blameless for most of his entire career and it reached a peak at right about that time.


I think the fact that a league that gives even the most modestly successful head coaches multiple opportunities to lead a team didn't give Sherman another chance is more telling than anything, honestly.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 3:38 PM Post
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Ole Sugar Bear drafting a punter in the third round in 2004 was incredible. Although he hit on Walker and Kampman in 2003 and Barnett in 04. The rest was pretty dismal.


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Online  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 3:43 PM Post
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Walker too. His drafting wasn't all that bad. He was a sentimental guy though and signed players long-term based on them being good people and his relationships with them.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 3:51 PM Post
Posts: 6424
OldSchoolSnapper said:
Walker too. His drafting wasn't all that bad. He was a sentimental guy though and signed players long-term based on them being good people and his relationships with them.


I recall Sherman started with the Packers as the HC only for at least 1-2 years, and quickly got back to winning after the last talent infusion from some Ron Wolf drafts and a Favre resurgence....then he was handed the reigns to being GM and promptly started drafting corners that fought each other better than they could cover and thinned out what looked like a deep and talented roster in a very short time. Basically he GM'd himself out of a coaching job in 3 years' time because he was awful at GM during that 3-4 year stretch and gave himself a poor roster around Favre. Him and Bill Obrien actually have a ton in common in that regard...it wasn't even the drafting, it was mainly poor personnel decisions with contracts IIRC

I still feel like that Packers team that got knocked out of the playoffs with that 4th and 26 at Philly debacle was headed to the Super Bowl - Ahman Green was a stud that year and they had a fantastic offensive line with a pretty solid defense to go along with it.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 3:55 PM Post
Posts: 26927
Walker was meh. He was kind of a head case. He had one great season and one good one, with Brett Favre throwing him the ball. He certainly wasn't Jordy Nelson or Davante Adams or even Greg Jennings. Certainly nothing that would constitute a feather in a cap for a first round pick.

Kampman was a great pick. Scott Wells too. So there was a couple gems, but not much to show for the early rounds.


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Online  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 4:32 PM Post
Posts: 8408
Yrah, Sherman drafting B.J. Sander was just terrible. I agree with Chorizo that what made him a bad GM was signing players to bad contracts that put the organization in cap hell, then TT came in and cleaned it up. One of the few things I'll say good about Ted. Sherman the GM basically got Sherman the head coach fired.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 6:03 PM Post
Posts: 5088
PinaMadness said:
Yrah, Sherman drafting B.J. Sander was just terrible. I agree with Chorizo that what made him a bad GM was signing players to bad contracts that put the organization in cap hell, then TT came in and cleaned it up. One of the few things I'll say good about Ted. Sherman the GM basically got Sherman the head coach fired.


While Mandrich is widely rated as the worst Packer draft pick ever because of where he was picked i would argue Sanders was worse.
Drafting a punter that early would be bad no matter what. The fact that he was terrible is the cherry on the sundae.


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Online  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 6:24 PM Post
Posts: 8408
yourout said:
PinaMadness said:
Yrah, Sherman drafting B.J. Sander was just terrible. I agree with Chorizo that what made him a bad GM was signing players to bad contracts that put the organization in cap hell, then TT came in and cleaned it up. One of the few things I'll say good about Ted. Sherman the GM basically got Sherman the head coach fired.


While Mandrich is widely rated as the worst Packer draft pick ever because of where he was picked i would argue Sanders was worse.
Drafting a punter that early would be bad no matter what. The fact that he was terrible is the cherry on the sundae.

The Raiders drafted Ray Guy in the first round and he's the greatest punter in NFL history, but he is definitely the exception to the rule.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 6:45 PM Post
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The Packers actually traded UP to get Sander making it even worse.

The Packers made Sander the first punter selected in the draft by trading fourth- (102nd overall) and fifth-round (153rd overall) picks to Miami in order to move up 15 spots and select him with the 87th overall pick

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Online  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 6:46 PM Post
Posts: 8408
Go Rams!


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Online  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 7:24 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
Walker was meh. He was kind of a head case. He had one great season and one good one, with Brett Favre throwing him the ball. He certainly wasn't Jordy Nelson or Davante Adams or even Greg Jennings. Certainly nothing that would constitute a feather in a cap for a first round pick.


I don't agree. He was a WR that was good right away and had a very steady trajectory, became a really good player, and then tore his ACL, which was a much more devastating injury even that recently than it is now. Then there was the incident where someone got shot and died in his lap, which sent him to therapy and had a devastating effect mentally, and he continued getting hurt too. I think that anyone who clearly remembers 2003 and 2004 (fair if someone doesn't, it WAS 16 years ago) would hesitate to say Walker wasn't a special player before he got hurt.

As far as him not being Jennings, Nelson or Adams, that is a pretty lofty standard. Those are 3 of like the top 8 WRs they've ever had.

I also agree with whoever made the comment about the 03 team going to the Super Bowl. It certainly had that feel and by the playoffs was as good as anyone. Ahman Green was one of Wolf's last strokes of genius for the Packers. One of my favorite players they've ever had.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 7:46 PM Post
Posts: 5885
nodakfan17 said:
For the final 3 years of Sherman’s tenure at Texas A&M, he had Ryan Tannehill on the roster, but chose to play him at wide receiver. Kevin Sumlin replaced Sherman in 2012 and went 11-2 with Tannehill at quarterback.


Tannehill was the starter the entire season Sherman's last year there. He took over halfway through the season the year before from a pretty good College QB Jerrod Johnson who had 30 TD's and 8 INT's going into that season.

So his last 3 years under Sherman he played QB for all but a few games and it's not like they were throwing some scrub out there.

Sherman's the reason Tanehill ended up in Miami.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 7:58 PM Post
Posts: 26927
OldSchoolSnapper said:
adambr2 said:
Walker was meh. He was kind of a head case. He had one great season and one good one, with Brett Favre throwing him the ball. He certainly wasn't Jordy Nelson or Davante Adams or even Greg Jennings. Certainly nothing that would constitute a feather in a cap for a first round pick.


I don't agree. He was a WR that was good right away and had a very steady trajectory, became a really good player, and then tore his ACL, which was a much more devastating injury even that recently than it is now. Then there was the incident where someone got shot and died in his lap, which sent him to therapy and had a devastating effect mentally, and he continued getting hurt too. I think that anyone who clearly remembers 2003 and 2004 (fair if someone doesn't, it WAS 16 years ago) would hesitate to say Walker wasn't a special player before he got hurt.

As far as him not being Jennings, Nelson or Adams, that is a pretty lofty standard. Those are 3 of like the top 8 WRs they've ever had.

I also agree with whoever made the comment about the 03 team going to the Super Bowl. It certainly had that feel and by the playoffs was as good as anyone. Ahman Green was one of Wolf's last strokes of genius for the Packers. One of my favorite players they've ever had.


Walker was talented. I don't dispute that. It's hard to find a receiver picked in the top 20 of a draft that isn't. I'm just going by straight production. He had one season in Green Bay where he caught more than 41 balls. It's not that he wasn't talented, but he was a one season wonder. Eventually went to Denver and was just okay. I'm glad we weren't the team to give him 40M. He seemed to have some character issues, and that matters too in these evaluations.


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Online  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 8:06 PM Post
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I'm still not sold on the Bears. No offense to speak of. Foles is wildly inaccurate.


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Online  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 8:18 PM Post
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I think this game is kind of showing that the Bears are who we thought they were. I guess having a good year, but they're going to be limited by QB play.


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Online  Re: 2020 Miscellaneous NFL News
Posted: October 26, 2020, 8:22 PM Post
Posts: 8408
OldSchoolSnapper said:
I think this game is kind of showing that the Bears are who we thought they were. I guess having a good year, but they're going to be limited by QB play.

Good analysis, Dennis.


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