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Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM

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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 8:27 AM Post
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homer said:
Packers should have a pretty nice three headed tight end situation when Deguara comes back. Big Bob and Jace looked great last night.


Those three plus Lewis...trying to recall if they suited up all 4 when they were all healthy, I think they did...seems like MLF has alot more read option or even misdirection plays in the offense utilizing multiple TE sets that have run action going one way with a TE darting across the formation to the opposite flat - if that weakside backer or safety gets caught looking at the run action Rodgers has the ability to pull the ball out and pick up a gimme 10-15 yards flipping it to the TE at will. I seem to remember similar types of plays with Graham running those routes last season hardly ever being effective. The would take way too long to develop because it would take Graham days to get across the formation (or on many occasions lining up on the weak side and putting less stress on the defense with little/no misdirection). Graham even in his prime was a TE much better suited to running seam routes - he had good straightline speed but he was never good at route running or playing laterally or relying on changes of direction to get himself open. Plus he was never a good blocker, so having him tight in a formation tended to bog things down more than anything.

When you look at GB's skill WR/TE room, I'd say most all of them are really good run blockers for their position (Sternberger is probably an exception since he's a hybrid TE/WR who would be considered a poor blocker as strictly a TE). Being able to have a series of run/pass option plays with those personnel groupings and have balance makes playing defense against the Packers very difficult when Rodgers is playing well AND able to make line checks without fear of miscommunication since there is no crowds.


Last edited by Fear The Chorizo on September 28, 2020, 8:30 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 8:27 AM Post
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When was the last time you heard #12 compliment the play-calling during his post-game interviews? That stood out to me.

Taysom Hill's fumble wasn't the result of a bad exchange; Z punched on the football with his initial contact and jarred the ball loose, exactly the way they coach it.

Seeing the Saints run productively off-tackle reminded me a lot of the games against the 49ers offense last year, so both teams had clearly done their homework and game-planned accordingly. I'm guessing the Packers saw the Saints LBs over-pursuing against the run, which opened up all the bootleg opportunities for the TEs. (As someone who picked Sternberger and Ty Summers as players I hoped would take a step forward this year, there were some positive signs.)


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 8:57 AM Post
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The Hill fumble was a great play by Smith no doubt, but Hill stuck that ball out for the taking about a half second too long after the fake handoff.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 10:27 AM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
Without the 49-yard run from Kamara the were 19 for 73 rushing. They did a nice job bottling up the cute stuff from Hill and generally weren't getting gashed for 7 and 8 yard gains all night.


I'll agree on stopping the Hill stuff, etc., but I think the rest is a bit too forgiving. Part of that is again the poor game plan of the saints, who went 2 to 1 pass to run vs. a poor run defense and with an aging QB.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 10:34 AM Post
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I’m not too worried about the defense just yet. The Packers were missing Clark and Kirksey (arguably their two best run stoppers) against a Top 5 running back. Plus, they couldn’t stack the box due to the threat of Brees passing.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 10:38 AM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
Without the 49-yard run from Kamara the were 19 for 73 rushing. They did a nice job bottling up the cute stuff from Hill and generally weren't getting gashed for 7 and 8 yard gains all night.


I'll agree on stopping the Hill stuff, etc., but I think the rest is a bit too forgiving. Part of that is again the poor game plan of the saints, who went 2 to 1 pass to run vs. a poor run defense and with an aging QB.


I'm a bit concerned that if a team will commit -- totally commit to running the ball on us, like the 49ers did in the NFC Championship Game, we won't be able to stop it.

However that's hopefully where the big improvement in offense will pay off this year and we can take a team out of a game plan like that.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 10:40 AM Post
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nodakfan17 said:
I’m not too worried about the defense just yet. The Packers were missing Clark and Kirksey (arguably their two best run stoppers) against a Top 5 running back. Plus, they couldn’t stack the box due to the threat of Brees passing.


He just refuses to throw a ball more than 25 yards. They gave him way too much latitude and as a result he killed them on the dinky underneath stuff. There is nearly zero threat of him throwing a deep ball.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 11:02 AM Post
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adambr2 said:
PeaveyFury said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
Without the 49-yard run from Kamara the were 19 for 73 rushing. They did a nice job bottling up the cute stuff from Hill and generally weren't getting gashed for 7 and 8 yard gains all night.


I'll agree on stopping the Hill stuff, etc., but I think the rest is a bit too forgiving. Part of that is again the poor game plan of the saints, who went 2 to 1 pass to run vs. a poor run defense and with an aging QB.


I'm a bit concerned that if a team will commit -- totally commit to running the ball on us, like the 49ers did in the NFC Championship Game, we won't be able to stop it.

However that's hopefully where the big improvement in offense will pay off this year and we can take a team out of a game plan like that.


This is where any concern should be IMO. Seattle can certainly beat the Packers but I don't think they can stop the Packers from scoring. Their o-line still isn't very good and we have the guys to get to Wilson. SF is a different story. If they don't have to pass, they won't. I'm glad the Packers have to play them again in the regular season.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 11:10 AM Post
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adambr2 said:
PeaveyFury said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
Without the 49-yard run from Kamara the were 19 for 73 rushing. They did a nice job bottling up the cute stuff from Hill and generally weren't getting gashed for 7 and 8 yard gains all night.


I'll agree on stopping the Hill stuff, etc., but I think the rest is a bit too forgiving. Part of that is again the poor game plan of the saints, who went 2 to 1 pass to run vs. a poor run defense and with an aging QB.


I'm a bit concerned that if a team will commit -- totally commit to running the ball on us, like the 49ers did in the NFC Championship Game, we won't be able to stop it.

However that's hopefully where the big improvement in offense will pay off this year and we can take a team out of a game plan like that.

That’s still a big fear of mine, but a higher scoring offense should make it more difficult for a team like the 49ers to impose their will (or so I tell myself).


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 11:17 AM Post
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I think there may be a good 10-6 team left out of the playoffs this year, even with 7 teams getting in. Wouldn't break my heart if it happens to be the 49ers.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 11:23 AM Post
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I'm still not sure the Packers have the talent at the skill positions to offset a REALLY good defense. There's Adams but the rest of those guys just don't strike me as difference makers in a repeat of the NFC Championship game. Maybe Lazard has really stepped it up. A very good defense + power running has always seem to be a problem for even very good Packers teams. It would be nice to get SF at home for once though.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 11:57 AM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
I'm still not sure the Packers have the talent at the skill positions to offset a REALLY good defense. There's Adams but the rest of those guys just don't strike me as difference makers in a repeat of the NFC Championship game. Maybe Lazard has really stepped it up. A very good defense + power running has always seem to be a problem for even very good Packers teams. It would be nice to get SF at home for once though.


By really good defense I assume you mean the 49ers as I don't think there is another team in the NFC that fits that definition. If the Packer offense that we've seen so far is the real deal there isn't another defense other than the 49ers in our conference that should be able to keep us out of the 30s.

I'll be interested to see how the 49ers defense matches up with all the injuries against a team that isn't a really bad Saquon-less Giants team.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 12:31 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
I think there may be a good 10-6 team left out of the playoffs this year, even with 7 teams getting in. Wouldn't break my heart if it happens to be the 49ers.


Bears fans think 10 - 6 is doable. I'll be surprised if they go 7 - 3 the rest of the way.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 12:51 PM Post
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homer said:
adambr2 said:
I think there may be a good 10-6 team left out of the playoffs this year, even with 7 teams getting in. Wouldn't break my heart if it happens to be the 49ers.


Bears fans think 10 - 6 is doable. I'll be surprised if they go 7 - 3 the rest of the way.


The Bears could easily be 0-3 despite playing the Lions, Giants, and Falcons - a collective 1-8.....I'd be surprised if the Bears wind up 8-8 despite their 3-0 start with the mess they have at QB and a defense that is far from "monsters of the midway" this season. I believe Cohen is done for the year with an ACL now, too.

The NFC East looks like their conference champ may be lucky to wind up above 0.500 knowing their out of conference opponents are largely the NFC West and AFC North. Once the Bears come down to earth after playing a few decent teams, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Packers wind up as the lone team in their division coming close to winning 10 games. That leaves the NFC south and west to fill out the remaining 5 playoff teams this year - The 49ers, Seahawks, Cards, Rams, Saints, and Buccaneers aren't all going to win 10 games because they're going to beat each other up. Honestly, of that group of 6, the 49ers may be in the most precarious situation given how many bad injuries they've already sustained and the fact they have no slouches in their division.

It's too early for certain and injuries are going to play a role in a few other teams creeping into the equation now that 7 teams are getting into the playoffs from each conference...but if we were in a vacuum that fast forwards two months I'd be shocked if the 7 NFC playoff teams don't come from 5 of those 6 teams listed just above, plus GB as the North Champ and a bad NFC East champ.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 1:22 PM Post
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Fear The Chorizo said:
homer said:
Packers should have a pretty nice three headed tight end situation when Deguara comes back. Big Bob and Jace looked great last night.


Those three plus Lewis...trying to recall if they suited up all 4 when they were all healthy, I think they did...seems like MLF has alot more read option or even misdirection plays in the offense utilizing multiple TE sets that have run action going one way with a TE darting across the formation to the opposite flat - if that weakside backer or safety gets caught looking at the run action Rodgers has the ability to pull the ball out and pick up a gimme 10-15 yards flipping it to the TE at will. I seem to remember similar types of plays with Graham running those routes last season hardly ever being effective. The would take way too long to develop because it would take Graham days to get across the formation (or on many occasions lining up on the weak side and putting less stress on the defense with little/no misdirection). Graham even in his prime was a TE much better suited to running seam routes - he had good straightline speed but he was never good at route running or playing laterally or relying on changes of direction to get himself open. Plus he was never a good blocker, so having him tight in a formation tended to bog things down more than anything.

When you look at GB's skill WR/TE room, I'd say most all of them are really good run blockers for their position (Sternberger is probably an exception since he's a hybrid TE/WR who would be considered a poor blocker as strictly a TE). Being able to have a series of run/pass option plays with those personnel groupings and have balance makes playing defense against the Packers very difficult when Rodgers is playing well AND able to make line checks without fear of miscommunication since there is no crowds.


I would pump the brakes a bit. Every catch by a TE was wide open, other than Big Dog's TD. Saints focused on MVS and the RBs, and never did adjust to that TE drag play. To their credit, Packers kept going back to it. Graham would have had no problem on those routes, it was all play design. That said, it's certainly a nice confidence boost for the young TEs, and you feel like if defenses ignore them it is another weapon now at least.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 1:50 PM Post
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I was pretty surprised by the Saints game plan in that they only ran the ball 20 times (two by Hill) and Kamara only got six carries. They used him more in the passing game giving him 14 targets and all except one were completions. It's as if opposing coaches don't watch film of our awful run defense. The Saints were never down more than one score until the final two minutes of the game IIRC.

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: September 28, 2020, 2:00 PM Post
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PinaMadness said:
I was pretty surprised by the Saints game plan in that they only ran the ball 20 times (two by Hill) and Kamara only got six carries. They used him more in the passing game giving him 14 targets and all except one were completions. It's as if opposing coaches don't watch film of our awful run defense. The Saints were never down more than one score until the final two minutes of the game IIRC.


Yeah, that a better way of expressing the point I was trying to make. It's like the opposing coaches are so focused on what their own offensive agenda is, that they ignore the fact that they only need to hand the ball off to move the ball vs. our defense. The Saints played into our hands with their game plan yesterday.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: October 01, 2020, 12:11 AM Post
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adambr2 said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
I'm still not sure the Packers have the talent at the skill positions to offset a REALLY good defense. There's Adams but the rest of those guys just don't strike me as difference makers in a repeat of the NFC Championship game. Maybe Lazard has really stepped it up. A very good defense + power running has always seem to be a problem for even very good Packers teams. It would be nice to get SF at home for once though.


By really good defense I assume you mean the 49ers as I don't think there is another team in the NFC that fits that definition. If the Packer offense that we've seen so far is the real deal there isn't another defense other than the 49ers in our conference that should be able to keep us out of the 30s.

I'll be interested to see how the 49ers defense matches up with all the injuries against a team that isn't a really bad Saquon-less Giants team.


Not sure the 49'ers are all that elite of a defense without Bosa, Buckner and Thomas.


I think the Bears are a better defense, even with Goldman opting out. Hicks is a Kenny Clark type talent, Mack and Floyd are pretty damn good.

But I don't know if there are any defenses on the level of last years 49'ers team or the Bronco's when they dominated the Packers a few years ago with Von, Chris Harris, Roby and Talib.


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: October 01, 2020, 6:20 AM Post
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HiAndTight said:
I think the Bears are a better defense, even with Goldman opting out. Hicks is a Kenny Clark type talent, Mack and Floyd are pretty damn good.


Leonard Floyd is a Ram now. They signed Robert Quinn to take his spot. Point is the same, though.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: Game 3: Packers @ Saints - Sunday, September 27th, 7:20PM
Posted: October 02, 2020, 12:31 AM Post
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Ron Robinson's Beard said:
HiAndTight said:
I think the Bears are a better defense, even with Goldman opting out. Hicks is a Kenny Clark type talent, Mack and Floyd are pretty damn good.


Leonard Floyd is a Ram now. They signed Robert Quinn to take his spot. Point is the same, though.



Yes, of course. Just typed that without thinking.


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