LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  [ 95 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...

Author Message
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#21

Posted: October 14, 2020, 5:10 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 3313
HiAndTight said:
I understand if people don't want to trade a 1st rounder for a DL. But hasn't Blake Martinez shown us that it's obviously not just the MLB'ers in GB? That a MLB'er can only be but so good when you have DL that is as bad as this group is at times, particularly defending the run?

Blake Martinez went from a stat stuffing MLB'er who people thought was...at best a decent player to an elite MLB'er even on a 0-5 team.

So there are quite a few MLB'ers I'd like to see the Packers draft. The kid from FSU Nasirildeen could end up being a great guy for the Packers to pick up. But the impact anyone we get is going to be marginal until we have someone better than Lancaster taking snaps.


Thanks for the respectful reply. I've long been unhappy taking an interior DL in the early rounds, every time it happens. Kenny Clark has worked out wonderfully. You can find successes and failures in every instance. I just don't find the overall value in modern-day football to sink tons of money and capital at the position. In the grand scheme of things, when I think, but not look, of Super Bowl Champions over the past decade, I can't picture an ELITE Nose Tackle. I'm sure one exists, it just doesn't pop to mind. When I think of Suh for example, great player, terrible human being, but where did that level of ELITE get the Lions? Yes, football is 53+ men to create success. I'm glad Clark is going to be around for a long time. I don't want to spend a 1st round pick on a interior DL. I just don't.

It's just when I look at draft capital in those first few rounds of 2021, I'd rather have Dylan Moses/Tyler Shelvin Rd 1-Rd-2 than I would Quinnen Williams and Jahad Woods? I didn't and still don't consider Blake Martinez to be ELITE. We can do better than Lancaster taking snaps when Clark is injured or needs a breather, sure...but it's my opinion that it doesn't need to come at the expense of a 2021 first round pick.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#22

Posted: October 15, 2020, 1:26 AM Post
Posts: 4929
lcbj68c said:
HiAndTight said:
I understand if people don't want to trade a 1st rounder for a DL. But hasn't Blake Martinez shown us that it's obviously not just the MLB'ers in GB? That a MLB'er can only be but so good when you have DL that is as bad as this group is at times, particularly defending the run?

Blake Martinez went from a stat stuffing MLB'er who people thought was...at best a decent player to an elite MLB'er even on a 0-5 team.

So there are quite a few MLB'ers I'd like to see the Packers draft. The kid from FSU Nasirildeen could end up being a great guy for the Packers to pick up. But the impact anyone we get is going to be marginal until we have someone better than Lancaster taking snaps.


Thanks for the respectful reply. I've long been unhappy taking an interior DL in the early rounds, every time it happens. Kenny Clark has worked out wonderfully. You can find successes and failures in every instance. I just don't find the overall value in modern-day football to sink tons of money and capital at the position. In the grand scheme of things, when I think, but not look, of Super Bowl Champions over the past decade, I can't picture an ELITE Nose Tackle. I'm sure one exists, it just doesn't pop to mind. When I think of Suh for example, great player, terrible human being, but where did that level of ELITE get the Lions? Yes, football is 53+ men to create success. I'm glad Clark is going to be around for a long time. I don't want to spend a 1st round pick on a interior DL. I just don't.

It's just when I look at draft capital in those first few rounds of 2021, I'd rather have Dylan Moses/Tyler Shelvin Rd 1-Rd-2 than I would Quinnen Williams and Jahad Woods? I didn't and still don't consider Blake Martinez to be ELITE. We can do better than Lancaster taking snaps when Clark is injured or needs a breather, sure...but it's my opinion that it doesn't need to come at the expense of a 2021 first round pick.




Well...you can just go back one year with Chris Jones. He was the best defender on a Chiefs team and one of the best in the league. He's not a NT, but neither is Williams as he'd a DE and would take over for Lancaster.(and I feel like you're saying NT as a blanket term for interior DL).
Two years ago you had Fletcher Cox with the Eagles. So that's 2 of the last 3. The Pats may not have had an elite DL, but they've got BB.
Aaron Donald was certainly one of the main reasons the Rams even made it to the SB.

So pretty much every team has at least one elite interior DL.

But what I really disagree with is even looking at it in those terms. Looking at teams and saying, "not many SB teams have...." can work for just about everything. How about who's the last SB team that had a real Star at MLB'er? KC didn't, SF didn't. But they DID have a dominant DL...SF had Buckner who was no small part of that that DL and Armstead would be a 3-4 DE.

I think having a dominant DL is behind QB and OL in terms of importance.
And Lancaster isn't just taking snaps because Clark's injured. He's been the starter there this year and last. He was starting last year when the Packers gave up nearly 200 yards before contact to the 49'ers.

With regard to Blake Martinez, irrespective of what you believe he is(and I'd tend to agree with you) he's playing like an elite MLB'er. That's what a very good DL can do.
If Capers was still running the D, I'd agree, you could get by with less on the DL. With DL who tried to eat up blockers. But Pettine's 3-4 is a bit different. He wants his DL getting after the QB, getting into the backfield.


Williams was the 3rd overall pick. IF we could get him for a 1st and a mid round pick, I think that's better value than we're likely to get drafting at the end of the 1st round. And...again, because the Jets guaranteed his whole contract, Williams would be just about the cheapest player on the roster.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#23

Posted: October 15, 2020, 9:06 AM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 5762
I get the feeling that to have a truly dominant defense, you need the elite MLB (along with much else). But many defenses get buy being good without a dominant MLB. Probably why the position tends to be deprioritized.

Ray Lewis (though perhaps the best ever) was a major force for a dominant Baltimore defense and a main reason why they won the SB with Trent Dilfer. Likewise, Brian Urlacher with the Bears getting to the SB with Rex Grossman.

But run defense is always secondary to the pass, so the MLB position gets knocked down a bit - granted Urlacher was an excellent pass defender too. Kendrick on the Vikings is almost a non-entity with their terrible CBs. I'd still prioritize CBs/Pass rushers first, DL second, Safties/Coverage LBs third, and MLB last on priority. Still, if you find a Lewis or Urlacher, you don't pass them up.

Frankly, I still say the easiest way to improve our MLB play for this year is sign Clay Matthews. In the second half of his career, he was much better at MLB where he didn't have to hold the edge and fight big Tackles constantly.

Can anyone see where PFF rates Blake Martinez among MLBs this year? Much was made of our system holding him back, so I'm curious where he ranks now.
- Edit: With a little digging I found that in Blake was rated: 2018: 74.8, 2019: 57.7 and so far in 2020: 81.2.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#24

Posted: October 15, 2020, 9:54 AM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 9657
CheezWizHed said:
- Edit: With a little digging I found that in Blake was rated: 2018: 74.8, 2019: 57.7 and so far in 2020: 81.2.


Your 2020 number is correct. I wanted to add a note that his run defense rating is an astounding 90.3, best overall for a LB.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#25

Posted: October 15, 2020, 10:02 AM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 5762
PeaveyFury said:
CheezWizHed said:
- Edit: With a little digging I found that in Blake was rated: 2018: 74.8, 2019: 57.7 and so far in 2020: 81.2.


Your 2020 number is correct. I wanted to add a note that his run defense rating is an astounding 90.3, best overall for a LB.


Thanks, with no subscription, I could only see the overall numbers. I pulled the previous year's numbers from various Packer News articles.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#26

Posted: October 15, 2020, 2:36 PM Post
Posts: 4929
CheezWizHed said:
I get the feeling that to have a truly dominant defense, you need the elite MLB (along with much else). But many defenses get buy being good without a dominant MLB. Probably why the position tends to be deprioritized.

Ray Lewis (though perhaps the best ever) was a major force for a dominant Baltimore defense and a main reason why they won the SB with Trent Dilfer. Likewise, Brian Urlacher with the Bears getting to the SB with Rex Grossman.

But run defense is always secondary to the pass, so the MLB position gets knocked down a bit - granted Urlacher was an excellent pass defender too. Kendrick on the Vikings is almost a non-entity with their terrible CBs. I'd still prioritize CBs/Pass rushers first, DL second, Safties/Coverage LBs third, and MLB last on priority. Still, if you find a Lewis or Urlacher, you don't pass them up.

Frankly, I still say the easiest way to improve our MLB play for this year is sign Clay Matthews. In the second half of his career, he was much better at MLB where he didn't have to hold the edge and fight big Tackles constantly.

Can anyone see where PFF rates Blake Martinez among MLBs this year? Much was made of our system holding him back, so I'm curious where he ranks now.
- Edit: With a little digging I found that in Blake was rated: 2018: 74.8, 2019: 57.7 and so far in 2020: 81.2.



Both are obviously incredible. I think Urlacher is better suited to play in today's game, but you can't really go wrong. And yet both of them were suffering a mid career dip...both teams went out and used their 1st round picks on DT's and they both went from having their worst years to back to All Pro players. Haloti Ngata and Tommie Harris.

I know it's beating a dead horse, but it feels like we could have fixed most of our DL issues had we just re-signed Mike Pennel last year after NE cut him. We brought him in, he worked out and then signed shortly after with KC and turned into a big part of their run last year.

I'd love to see Clay back...especially if it means he doesn't go to Seattle who could really use an edge rusher. Perhaps he's waiting like Veldheer did last year so he can play hard for half a season and not put his body through a full season of abuse.

Then in the draft, they can pick up Hamsah Nasirldeen from FSU in the 2nd round. A Simmons-esque type player. A 6'4 safety who's likely to move to LB'er at the next level(like Brian Urlacher). But that's kinda getting off topic..just throwing that name out there.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#27

Posted: October 16, 2020, 7:09 AM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 9657
Bill Barnwell suggests a pre-deadline Packer trade for Kenny Stills, giving up a 6th. This seems like too logical a deal to actually happen. Packers have excess draft capital due to the UFA losses, and Stills is a free agent at the end of the season with little value to Houston. The Packers aren't on the hook for salary after this year considering their cap crunch.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/301 ... -zach-ertz


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#28

Posted: October 16, 2020, 7:27 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1735
PeaveyFury said:
Bill Barnwell suggests a pre-deadline Packer trade for Kenny Stills, giving up a 6th. This seems like too logical a deal to actually happen. Packers have excess draft capital due to the UFA losses, and Stills is a free agent at the end of the season with little value to Houston. The Packers aren't on the hook for salary after this year considering their cap crunch.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/301 ... -zach-ertz


I don't know if we'll see the Texans make any deals with their front office and coaching staff in flux.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#29

Posted: October 16, 2020, 2:53 PM Post
Posts: 4929
PeaveyFury said:
Bill Barnwell suggests a pre-deadline Packer trade for Kenny Stills, giving up a 6th. This seems like too logical a deal to actually happen. Packers have excess draft capital due to the UFA losses, and Stills is a free agent at the end of the season with little value to Houston. The Packers aren't on the hook for salary after this year considering their cap crunch.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/301 ... -zach-ertz



Meh...I'm not nearly as interested in a trade for a WR'er at this point. Now that we've seen what we have and how they really aren't as important as they were with McCarthy. I'd be happy to get Stills, but it'd take a few weeks to get him going and these trades just rarely seem to work out.

I'd just love to see Equinimious St. Brown on the field this Sunday. It's time for him to actually show something.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#30

Posted: October 17, 2020, 6:53 PM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 5762
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
PeaveyFury said:
Bill Barnwell suggests a pre-deadline Packer trade for Kenny Stills, giving up a 6th. This seems like too logical a deal to actually happen. Packers have excess draft capital due to the UFA losses, and Stills is a free agent at the end of the season with little value to Houston. The Packers aren't on the hook for salary after this year considering their cap crunch.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/301 ... -zach-ertz


I don't know if we'll see the Texans make any deals with their front office and coaching staff in flux.


Yeah, but a WR that isn't getting any play with your team, you're having a losing season, and he is going to be a FA. Pretty low-risk move.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#31

Posted: October 18, 2020, 1:26 PM Post
Posts: 2052
I hope King plays really well this season and gets a nice contract elsewhere (netting a high comp pick in the process). His talent is obvious, but is he durable enough? I hope another team thinks so.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#32

Posted: October 18, 2020, 5:31 PM Post
Posts: 4929
https://nflspinzone.com/2020/10/17/gree ... ne-2020/2/

Trade targets, McLendon, Shelby Harris, Quinnen Williams, John Ross and Michael Gallup(who we're somehow getting for a 3rd round pick).

I think Ross might be an interesting target. Someone who can play the Ervin role. Get the ball in his hands at or near the LOS?

Could revitalize his career. Gallup isn't coming to Green Bay. I don't see Dallas handing GB a low end #1 WR'er just because they have two others for a 3rd round pick. It'd likely take a 1st and I wouldn't give up a 1st unless we were getting back a cheap player who had multiple years and didn't cost much.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#33

Posted: October 18, 2020, 6:49 PM Post
Posts: 5833
McClendon was traded to the Bucs. As if they needed any more help.

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#34

Posted: October 18, 2020, 7:20 PM Post
Posts: 4929
PinaMadness said:
McClendon was traded to the Bucs. As if they needed any more help.



If we trade for Williams, I'll take it.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#35

Posted: October 18, 2020, 7:22 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 15099
Location: Milwaukee, WI
I’d love for the Packers to get creative and try to fill a hole.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#36

Posted: October 18, 2020, 7:38 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 6267
It's frustrating to watch the Bucs lose a huge piece and immediately go and try to fix it with a bold move. It's just the kind of thing you're accustomed to the Packers absolutely never doing. They'd be on their 5th practice squad attempt before they'd consider trading a draft pick to solve an obvious problem.

I know the Packers have a big cap problem but just generally speaking, "bold" is not a word I'd use to describe GB operations.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#37

Posted: October 18, 2020, 8:53 PM Post
Posts: 4929
OldSchoolSnapper said:
It's frustrating to watch the Bucs lose a huge piece and immediately go and try to fix it with a bold move. It's just the kind of thing you're accustomed to the Packers absolutely never doing. They'd be on their 5th practice squad attempt before they'd consider trading a draft pick to solve an obvious problem.

I know the Packers have a big cap problem but just generally speaking, "bold" is not a word I'd use to describe GB operations.



I'll wait a bit before making a judgement. Giving up a 6th for McLendon and a 7th isn't all that bold...but they'd better do something. Gute was bold during the off-season two years ago and has done little sense to help the team. He specifically said he was going to be aggressive in pursuing veterans in-season. I guess Veldheer was kinda bold, but they need badly to do something this year.

Everyone's got Cap problems. Ours are hardly big enough to stop us from adding a player who can help us this year. There are a dozen different ways to free up some cap room.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#38

Posted: October 18, 2020, 8:56 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 6267
All I know is that DL needs someone. Seemingly meh moves sometimes pay huge dividends. Howard Green was just a guy they signed about this time of year and was a huge piece of the team that year. They've had moves like that over the years and they really need to find a spark plug.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#39

Posted: October 19, 2020, 7:24 AM Post
Posts: 4929
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/301 ... ot-offense

Pretty much every player who's made "critiques" of the flawless operation that Adam Gase has going in New York has been shipped out...so...here's hoping.


Last edited by HiAndTight on October 19, 2020, 9:50 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Packers Transactions/Rumors thread...
#40

Posted: October 20, 2020, 7:51 PM Post
Posts: 4929
Packers sign James Burgress(from the Falcons).

He played in New York last year...so he's leaving Adam Gase. No reason he shouldn't be an All-Pro, right? Leave Gase and vastly increase.

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2019/7/ ... es-burgess

A pretty detailed scouting report on him from last year.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  [ 95 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: nodakfan17 and 5 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test