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Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM

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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 10:19 AM Post
Posts: 4929
turborickey said:
lol

Obsession sets in...

dude *sigh* Brady brought me back to the NFL, I had to see what would would happen. Like so many others that gave up on the NFL and came back for whatever reason, Brady was my reason.

I know a lot of people who claimed to leave the NFL but came back 3 weeks later, or the next season. I stuck to my word for 3 years, and it took a pretty big deal to bring me back. I used to watch every game that was on tv, no matter who was playing, I now only watch Bucs games. I'm back, but in a limited manner.

Carry on, if you want, I can give you some more quotes so you have something to post 2 months from now...



I think you think a bit highly of yourself. Who's obsessed? I DO find it funny that you've been a "die hard" NFL fan since 1977 but you've also given up on watching the NFL so much so that you struggle to be around people who ARE NFL fans because you have "awkward encounters" with fans who ask you why you DON'T watch the NFL anymore.

I feel like "diehard" here is a little bit more akin to "every 7 or 8 years when my part time team wins I get to rub it in fellow Brewers fans faces."
And that's fine...


I would question the "so many others" who quit watching Football...but I just don't care enough and that seems like it's destined to veer off(as if this already hasn't).


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 10:19 AM Post
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At this point, I think I'd rather see us play 0 cover and occasionally get burned than sitting back and hoping the other team doesn't connect on their passes after 7 seconds in the pocket.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 10:29 AM Post
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Brew4U said:
At this point, I think I'd rather see us play 0 cover and occasionally get burned than sitting back and hoping the other team doesn't connect on their passes after 7 seconds in the pocket.


If the secondary is even decent, which I think it is, it would seem more logical to send more guys and give the strength of the defense a chance to make plays/hold their own. Yesterday we did the exact opposite. Send 3 at 5 and make life hard for our backfield.


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 10:35 AM Post
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I brought up the jet sweep action (or lack thereof) during the game. MLF discussed it afterwards:

With Tyler Ervin (wrist) out for this game, coach Matt LaFleur used Aaron Jones in the role of the wingback who runs the jet motion that’s such a big part of LaFleur’s offense. That meant Jamaal Williams and Jones were on the field together for a good number of snaps, with Jones at the wing and Williams at halfback. Though Jones is an explosive back, the tactic didn’t work. Jones ran jet motion almost every time he lined up at the wingback, but he didn’t take any jet-sweep handoffs, and from the halfback position he and Williams combined for 49 yards on 14 carries, with 25 of those yards coming on a Williams run in the first quarter. “We’ve got to have a better plan,” LaFleur said, “because losing one guy (i.e., Ervin) can’t have that type of effect on your football team. If it does, then you’re probably not doing things the right way. So we’ve got to make sure we again go back to the drawing board as a coaching staff, take a good hard look at everything and make sure that we’re asking our players to do things they can do.”

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 10:37 AM Post
Posts: 4929
PeaveyFury said:
As much as I just want to ignore football altogether in the few days after a loss, I figure it worthy to put together some thoughts anyway:

1)Obviously, they're not going to win all 16 regular season games, but that doesn't make an ugly loss like that any less painful. I do believe that you can learn more about yourselves as a team from a loss than you can from a win, so hopefully they are able to learn and fix. But wow, do their losses seem horrendous on the rare occasions that they've happened.
2)I think it's disappointing that yet again in the second season under MLF, the Packers came out ultra-flat out of a bye. I said two weeks ago that the bye came at a good time for the team from an injury standpoint, but I do think that a team on a roll like they were would have had more benefit from a later bye. Still, you have to wonder about why they lay an egg like that.
3)Related, I appreciate hearing 'bad week of practice' and such, but still, WTH? First concerns about 'behavior on the west coast trips' last year, now ugly practices out of the bye. A little concerning. Once is an anomaly, twice is the start of a trend.
4)A lot has been noted about the team's success with Adams off the field. I won't in any way advocate that the team is better off without one of the best receivers in the league, but I do think our QB's play is better overall without him. At least one of the INTs yesterday was due to forcing the ball into Davante when the window just wasn't there, and the pick six was even worse- forcing the ball into a window that wasn't there on a route destined to result in a pick six if the ball doesn't get to the receiver. He has to be better at taking what's there, whether the receiver has Adams on the back of his jersey or otherwise.
5)I don't think the Buccaneers are anything close to favorites in the NFC, but I'm confident this won't look like an ugly loss to a bad team at the end of the year. The defense is very good, and likely the best we've played thus far by a large margin, and the offense seems to be starting to click. No reason to think they won't be a playoff team come January.
6)Why does it feel like the team has problems in a particular building? Raymond James has been an ugly place for the Packers to play, seemingly back to the days of Sherman/Favre. It's like the Metrodome through most of Favre's career. It just seems like we lay an egg here, regardless of how good the level of competition is.
7)All of the points about the team's response to adversity are very fair, IMO. It seems like the blueprint for beating us is to A) have a defense good enough to knock us out of our desired offensive gameplan, and B)get us down big, as we can't seem to come back from a significant deficit anymore. TB certainly did a good job on both of those points. Jones was a complete non-factor, which is saying something. They have to figure out how to adjust when the offensive game plan gets disrupted like that.
8)The annoying thing is that it wasn't really TB that put us out of our game plan, it was two terrible turnovers. 10-0 lead with the ball. You really have to wonder how much differently this game looks if we just control the ball.
9)Beyond all of that, not much good to point to. I guess Krys Barnes seemed to be all over the field defensively. Beyond that and that it sounds like Bakh and Tonyan both avoided any kind of serious injury, there wasn't anything else I can point to as a positive from this game.



I disagree with a couple points.

1st-They didn't come out flat. That's what's the most frustrating. They came out and absolutely dominated. They didn't finish the first drive, but they finished the 2nd. Then Rodgers threw that terrible pick...THEN they started to look flat....which leads me to

2-That wasn't a bad window, that was a routine slant to Adams and it hit him in both of his hands for what should have been a 1st down. I can get past both of those because it's Rodgers and Adams. How often does 12 throw a weak ball on a field out and then how often does Adams just have one go right off his hands when he's not trying to run after the catch?

3-With regard to Rodgers being better without Adams...I'm not convinced that's the case(though the stats may say otherwise).

To me it was just baffling to see our offense SO stagnant. ALL the stuff that's made us look good in the past few weeks just thrown out the window. The pre-snap motion, the mis-direction. This was much more like a Mike McCarthy outdated scheme than the one MLF's been getting praised for.

I mention in one of my obnoxiously long posts in the transaction threads, but I think the Packers should take a hard look at John Ross. I don't expect he'll resurect his career as a #1 WR'er, but he looks to me EXACTLY like the type of player you'd want playing whatever hybrid position that Tyler Ervin is.
They can't possibly have pinned so much of their hopes on the play of Tyler friggin Ervin, right? I mean...he's a nice player, but that offense looked totally different yesterday. It looked like last years.

Tampa definitely beat us badly, but you're also 100 pct right, they didn't take us out of our game....we did that. You spot that offense 14 points, then you fall further behind against the #1 pass rush in the NFL...bad things are gonna happen!

On balance I agree with most of what you said. I don't think this makes the Buccs favorites for the NFC. It'll change this week and it'll be Seattle, TB and then us or even Chicago(which....isn't gonna happen). But this is NOT like the 49'ers loss. We got beat, but we were a drive away from completely taking control of the game. If we lose a game and you can point to Aaron Rodgers throwing picks as the reason, there's a pretty good chance that won't repeat itself.


Oh, and with regard to the bad weak of practice, what the hell is that? I heard Rodgers complaining(that might be strong, maybe pointing out would be more accurate) how they didn't really get a bye week. So in that sense when you're expecting a bye week mentally and you're coming in every day to get tested and you don't have anywhere to go, I can absolutely see how that would get dull and how the practice could drop.


Good news, on top of Tonyan and Bahk's injuries not being too bad, I'll throw EQ St. Brown was on the field. He didn't look good(though the 2nd pass that fans were saying he dropped was on Rodgers)...but he was out there and moving well. Rodgers was talking about how much he likes him because he catches with his hands and it gives him a wide catch radius, but he had a bad day, but he played and he was healthy.

And Dillon got some run. And he looked good. So...two guys didn't get hurt, a guy who has been hurt played poorly but played and our 2nd round pick got a few carries. Christ...can you find worse "good takeaway's" from a game?



Still, I like our chances, but for the love of God Gute, get on the phone. Don't let another D-Hop get traded for a 4th rounder! Maybe show a little initiative. I don't expect you to ACTUALLY trade a 1st rounder for the guy I like, but you'd better do something. I think it's a real bad sign if they don't make a fairly significant move between now and the deadline.


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Online  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 10:43 AM Post
Posts: 2527
This team misses Lazard a lot more than you think.


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 10:46 AM Post
Posts: 4929
Brew4U said:
At this point, I think I'd rather see us play 0 cover and occasionally get burned than sitting back and hoping the other team doesn't connect on their passes after 7 seconds in the pocket.



I kinda agree with you. You don't literally need to play cover 0. You can play with a single high and then shade him over to Gronk or Evans.

On the TD that put the game away, we ran a cover 0 and Brady just threw it up for Gronk for an easy ~20 yard TD.

On the deep ball to that little annoying guy named Scotty where Jackson was in perfect position...yet for whatever reason decided he'd rather NOT turn his head around and try and play the ball, they were sending pressure.

I think it shows how important it is to have King out there. I think Jackson still can salvage his career, but he was obviously not comfortable. Going against Brady(even a declining Brady) and a couple of elite WR'ers can do that to a guy who hasn't gotten much PT.


The guy who really has to step up is Savage. He REALLY flashed at times last year...he helped in the run game, he was all over the field. He was making the rookie mistakes you'd expect, but he was flashing. I've seen nothing from him this year. Amos at the other spot was never really expected to come in and be a Sharper/Woodson type player who created turnovers, just a steady, reliable DB. You traded up to get him, he needs to play better.


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 10:50 AM Post
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The Packers in general need to start generating turnovers.

They are #1 in the league with 2 giveaways; entered yesterday with 0.

They are 15th in differential at +1. A few big plays would make that defense seem way better than it has looked.


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 10:51 AM Post
Posts: 4929
homer said:
I brought up the jet sweep action (or lack thereof) during the game. MLF discussed it afterwards:

With Tyler Ervin (wrist) out for this game, coach Matt LaFleur used Aaron Jones in the role of the wingback who runs the jet motion that’s such a big part of LaFleur’s offense. That meant Jamaal Williams and Jones were on the field together for a good number of snaps, with Jones at the wing and Williams at halfback. Though Jones is an explosive back, the tactic didn’t work. Jones ran jet motion almost every time he lined up at the wingback, but he didn’t take any jet-sweep handoffs, and from the halfback position he and Williams combined for 49 yards on 14 carries, with 25 of those yards coming on a Williams run in the first quarter. “We’ve got to have a better plan,” LaFleur said, “because losing one guy (i.e., Ervin) can’t have that type of effect on your football team. If it does, then you’re probably not doing things the right way. So we’ve got to make sure we again go back to the drawing board as a coaching staff, take a good hard look at everything and make sure that we’re asking our players to do things they can do.



Ok...cool. So he saw the problem and addressed it. That's refreshing.


This team misses Lazard a lot more than you think.



More than who thinks? I think Lazard was playing well...he is a great blocking WR'er and a big target, but I don't think he's making that big of a difference in a game like yesterday. He takes a while to get open on his routes due to the fact that he's slow. We weren't hitting any of those big plays that Lazard got a few weeks ago because those were all plays that Rodgers had to hold the ball for 4 seconds or so. He wasn't able to hold the ball anywhere near that long.


I think it'd be really nice to get Lazard back. I think the loss of Ervin hurt us far more than the loss of Lazard did...but yes, of course we're missing him. He was a starter. But he shouldn't make that big of a difference.


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 10:59 AM Post
Posts: 4929
OldSchoolSnapper said:
I think it's fair to say the DC is a hot seat, especially considering he was not a MLF guy.



Oh Gawd...he'd better be.

Honestly, the biggest trade I'd like to make right now would be Williams from the Jets. GREGG Williams.

I don't care about Bounty-Gate, he's a hard ass who puts his players in good positions to get the most out of them.
He should be coming on the market after this season. I'd really love to see him and his aggressive 34 over Pettine's.


On the zone blitz...with Adams and Preston Smith dropping, that's fine to run, but the ENTIRE point of that is you've got other guys coming so that the QB has to get rid of the ball quickly to his safety valve and thus the fat guy doesn't have to cover much ground or maybe he's not even seen by the QB(think Packers-Bears on that Raji TD).


But hey, can't argue with dropping Preston Smith in coverage, right? I mean, when you've got Derrick Brooks...what, are you NOT gonna drop him into coverage? Clearly the reason we handed out 4/56 to Preston was to come in, get 12 sacks, 32 QB hits, be in the top 10 in pressures...then...and this is key, you REALLY throw the opposing offenses for a loop when you drop him into coverage OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

That IS where he thrives. Covering his 3 yard patch of dirt about and dropping into that hook zone.


I don't recall the last time I really wanted a coach to be fired as badly as I want Pettine gone. I wanted McCarthy gone, but I almost felt bad because I thought he was good and then just got stale. But Pettine...he's never been good. He was gifted three elite players in his front 7, a budding young superstar at CB, a solid secondary and he can't make anything happen with them?


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 11:01 AM Post
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It is somewhat outrageous that they didn't sack Brady once with the personnel they have on defense and Brady's immobility.


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 11:06 AM Post
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HiAndTight said:

I think you think a bit highly of yourself. Who's obsessed? I DO find it funny that you've been a "die hard" NFL fan since 1977 but you've also given up on watching the NFL so much so that you struggle to be around people who ARE NFL fans because you have "awkward encounters" with fans who ask you why you DON'T watch the NFL anymore.

I feel like "diehard" here is a little bit more akin to "every 7 or 8 years when my part time team wins I get to rub it in fellow Brewers fans faces."
And that's fine...




lol

Ok then...

Actually, Tampa hasn't played the Packers since 2017, so I can't really brag about winning when the game happens so infrequently these days. Tampa hasn't beaten the Packers since 2009, so this was a great win for a Bucs fan in WI.

This is a lot of fun, what it is actually about is a couple bitter fans having a hard time with a loss, so they try and take it out on a Bucs fan who has the nerve to post on a site primarily full of Packer fans...

Question me all you want, fact remains that the Bucs just absolutely dominated an undefeated team, which happens to be the Packers.

That's it for me, feel free to have the last word, hopefully we meet again in the play-offs!

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 11:14 AM Post
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turborickey said:
HiAndTight said:

what it is actually about is a couple bitter fans having a hard time with a loss, so they try and take it out on a Bucs fan


Dude, no. Lol. Not at all. This isn't that serious.

It really IS about a guy who spent 3 years talking about how he was done with the NFL, hates kneeling, Kap is stupid, keep politics out of sports...and then suddenly popped out of a hole to call himself a diehard fan since 1977.

I don't actually believe for one second that you can't see why you look ridiculous here. You were loud and proud about being done with the NFL, as recently as last month. You just apparently have no ability to laugh at yourself.

turborickey said:

That's it for me


You keep saying this but always come back.


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 12:27 PM Post
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yourout said:
This team misses Lazard a lot more than you think.


I posted this on Oct. 2nd when he got hurt. Great minds...
Brew4U said:
Lazard will be a bigger loss than Adams. .

Brew4U said:
No, I’m referring to his overall game. He gets in the muck and makes some big-time blocking plays that go unnoticed a lot of the time. It’s a huge piece to this new offensive scheme. In no way am I saying he’s a better pass catcher than Adams but I really think this offense will miss what Lazard does on Sundays and will have to adjust quite a bit moving forward.



Little did I know that it is actually Tyler Ervin that makes the offense go... [laughing]

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 12:28 PM Post
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I think they miss Lazard, I think he is a big loss. I think they would have lost 38-10 with him on the field yesterday.


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 12:38 PM Post
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HiAndTight said:
1st-They didn't come out flat. That's what's the most frustrating. They came out and absolutely dominated. They didn't finish the first drive, but they finished the 2nd. Then Rodgers threw that terrible pick...THEN they started to look flat....which leads me to

2-That wasn't a bad window, that was a routine slant to Adams and it hit him in both of his hands for what should have been a 1st down. I can get past both of those because it's Rodgers and Adams. How often does 12 throw a weak ball on a field out and then how often does Adams just have one go right off his hands when he's not trying to run after the catch?

3-With regard to Rodgers being better without Adams...I'm not convinced that's the case(though the stats may say otherwise).


Just to clarify, I obviously agree that they started very strong results-wise. By 'flat', I was more referring to energy/excitement levels, emotion. Obviously, they got down in a deflating way. But they never had, even from the start IMO, the feel of a team that was up for the game.

Regarding Adams/the 2nd INT, my point is that it's a low percentage pass on a third down to a receiver that was double-covered. There's a better read there, somewhere. I haven't watched a tape of the whole play to look at the other options, but that's forcing a ball to a guy that can't be the best choice there.


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 12:44 PM Post
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Honestly, the flatness of the offense is really all about the pressure on AROD. He was under pressure early, but he seemed to understand where it was coming from. After the first two drives, you could see his confidence in his protection continue to dwindle. He started getting happy-feet and a bit jumpy. That is when bad decisions were made and his 2019 accuracy problems returned.

But in AR's defense, pressure any QB like that and he will struggle.


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 2:01 PM Post
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Granted, it was a small segment of plays, but the start of the 2nd quarter the Packers sure seemed to go completely away from the run and then almost acted like because Rodgers threw 2 picks basically in a row that they had to keep a pass-heavy approach to try and make the point they could still move the ball through the air - then the game got completely away from them and they were essentially forced to remain pass-heavy and predictable the rest of the game against a quality defense that can play fast and aggressive against 1 dimension. Tampa Bay has a solid run D, but there was no reason to just abandon the run game early in the 2nd quarter because of a couple INTs - GB actually gashed them a few times early in the run game and then just abandoned it.

Went back and looked at it - the pick 6 series was three straight passes. The next series was a swing pass to Jones, followed by a stretch run that had no chance because David was unblocked, then the Adams slant that was picked.

Then the next series after getting down 14-10 due to those INTs, another 3 and out with 3 passes. (overturned big pass play to Jones was in there). TB goes on their 1st long TD drive to go up 21-10. Next Packer series, 7 yard jones run, incomplete deep pass, big sack on another pass play.

Tampa Bay then swiss cheeses the Packers' D for another TD. End of half drive for the Packers was all passes mainly due to time...but in total the Packers ran the ball only twice in the entire 2nd quarter, despite having FIVE freaking possessions.

GB's offense has been great up until yesterday because of how balanced they have been, and that has also helped their Oline. Rodgers got put on the ground and harassed much more yesterday than he has in total for their initial 4 games, and that pressure seemed to throw off both Rodgers as a passer AND MLF as a playcaller by going away from what they've excelled at with balance and quick hitting misdirection plays.


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Online  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 2:08 PM Post
Posts: 2053
The fact that Jordan Love didn’t come over to be the referee in the McCringleberry celebration proves he’s not ready to be QB2. That was just a clutch performance by Tim Boyle.


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Offline  Re: Game 5: Packers @ Buccaneers - Sunday, October 18th, 3:25PM
Posted: October 19, 2020, 2:11 PM Post
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The play calling was awful. They kept trying to run outside and TB was too fast. They had success up the middle. SHould have kept going to that.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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