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Bucks 2020 offseason thread

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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#21

Posted: October 22, 2020, 2:55 PM Post
Posts: 21901
reillymcshane said:
nate82 said:
Trades:
Wizards receive Bledsoe, Wilson, 2020 1st round pick, 2024 1st round pick (unprotected)
Bucks receive: Beal

I think this undervalues Beal by a lot.


Is it closer with DDV instead of Wilson?


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#22

Posted: October 22, 2020, 3:10 PM Post
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its closer as DDV is a better player than Wilson, but wizards don't make that deal either.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#23

Posted: October 22, 2020, 9:15 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
reillymcshane said:
nate82 said:
Trades:
Wizards receive Bledsoe, Wilson, 2020 1st round pick, 2024 1st round pick (unprotected)
Bucks receive: Beal

I think this undervalues Beal by a lot.


Is it closer with DDV instead of Wilson?

Sure it's closer - but I still don't think it's there.

Bucks have a lot of good pieces - but no one that can be transformative to the Wizards. Bledsoe (limited upside, almost 31, rep for collapsing in the playoffs), a couple of late 1st round picks, and DJ Wilson (really a non-factor here) are some decent assets. And DDV is a solid player.

But I still don't think it gets you there. It's more quantity for quality. Beal is probably a top 20-25 player in the league. Those aren't easy to acquire - and thus you have to pay a premium for them.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#24

Posted: October 22, 2020, 11:24 PM Post
Posts: 4929
reillymcshane said:
tmwiese55 said:
I think Ersan can be used if they pick up his option. But it can't be used to make the trade and then the team just decline the option to save money. Of course I could be wrong here but that's the way I understand it.

This is 100% correct.

We'd have to pick up Ersan's contract, and then he can be traded.



Of course...but at that point, how much value does he have? I was under the mistaken impression that you could trade his non-guaranteed salary to a team....such as the Wizards, to help them dump salary. If that was the case, he'd have value. I guess he still has some as an expiring salary.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#25

Posted: October 22, 2020, 11:59 PM Post
Posts: 4929
reillymcshane said:
Sure it's closer - but I still don't think it's there.

Bucks have a lot of good pieces - but no one that can be transformative to the Wizards. Bledsoe (limited upside, almost 31, rep for collapsing in the playoffs), a couple of late 1st round picks, and DJ Wilson (really a non-factor here) are some decent assets. And DDV is a solid player.

But I still don't think it gets you there. It's more quantity for quality. Beal is probably a top 20-25 player in the league. Those aren't easy to acquire - and thus you have to pay a premium for them.


I wonder if the Bucks could give the Wizzards the option to swap picks in the future to push this potential deal over the edge. I can't really see any trade that works with Beal...but maybe they hope Giannis leaves?


Bledsoe is a really nice player(though obviously only for the first 82 games), and with his contract only guaranteed for...what, 3 million in 21-22, so he has some value, but Beal's one of the best guards in the league. Pretty much the perfect fit for the Bucks, but I would think the Wizards would be able to get a much-much better return for him.


Does this package get you Buddy Hield? I think that might be a more realistic target at this point...maybe Hield and Barnes or Corey Joseph if the Kings want to get rid of either? They could probably get value for Barnes in a normal year, but I don't know how much value he has this off-season. Joseph seems like the type of guy they'd want to get rid of and he could replace Bledsoe as he's a pretty good defender and a decent backup.


It's been pretty obvious since last off-season Horst was going to have a very difficult job improving this roster. The best chance may be by drafting and developing, but as that takes time and we're on a clock here, it'll be impressive if he can find a way to add a 3rd difference-maker....all the more so if he can add a player better than Middleton with what we have to offer.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#26

Posted: October 23, 2020, 9:30 AM Post
Posts: 5468
Location: Madison, WI
I'm all for doing whatever you can to get Beal before moving onto other options. The offer said here wasn't enough and since the Bucks have almost no good assets all you can do is keep adding in #1 picks and pick swaps until they say yes. I'm not sure how many that will be and even if it still would be enough. Maybe if some years out picks were left completely unprotected they'd go for it on the gamble that if Giannis leaves those picks could be really good.

What they'd really need is Giannis to do some recruiting and get Beal to tell them this is where he wants to go and force their hand, of course I don't see that happening.

If I'm philly though I'm trying to bring in Beal. Basically decide who to keep Embiid/Simmons and trade the other for Beal. They need to balance their roster out and he's as good of a fit there as he is in MKE. No way we can beat an offer that has either of those guys in it, heck WAS might end up giving Phi extra in the deal.


Last edited by tmwiese55 on October 23, 2020, 10:46 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#27

Posted: October 23, 2020, 10:32 AM Post
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reillymcshane said:
nate82 said:

Crazy never going to happen trade
Bucks receive: Simmons
Rockets receive: Bledsoe and Embiid
76ers receive: Westbrook, Covington and Ilyasova

This is never happening. The Sixers give up Embiid and Simmons and end up with Westbrook and Covington? That's a terrible deal for them.

Bucks make out like bandits. It's basically Bledsoe for Simmons. No way.

Ilyasova at $7M doesn't really add value.


Simmons isn't all that good as he can only score by driving to the basket and that is it. His jump shot is worse than Bledsoe's and probably on par with Giannis. Simmons hasn't shown any willingness to improve his jump shot at all.

Westbrook is by far a better PG and makes the 76ers ar far better team. Covington while he is not Embiid is a really good center. He is also really cheap. The amount of cap space the 76ers gets should allow them to go after Giannis if he doesn't re-sign with the Bucks.

The trade is also titled the Crazy never going to happen trade.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#28

Posted: October 23, 2020, 11:30 AM Post
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HiAndTight said:

Bledsoe is a really nice player(though obviously only for the first 82 games), and with his contract only guaranteed for...what, 3 million in 21-22, so he has some value, but Beal's one of the best guards in the league. Pretty much the perfect fit for the Bucks, but I would think the Wizards would be able to get a much-much better return for him.

As a note, you are off by one year on Bledsoe's salary. It is fully guaranteed in 20-21 ($16.875M) and 21-22 ($18.125M). He is then only partially guaranteed in 22-23 ($3.9M on a base of $19.375M).

That means he's guaranteed about $39M total for the next two years - plus the $3.9M for 22-23 if he's released.

That's not a bad salary for a player of his caliber. But it's not great either.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#29

Posted: October 23, 2020, 11:54 AM Post
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reillymcshane said:
HiAndTight said:

Bledsoe is a really nice player(though obviously only for the first 82 games), and with his contract only guaranteed for...what, 3 million in 21-22, so he has some value, but Beal's one of the best guards in the league. Pretty much the perfect fit for the Bucks, but I would think the Wizards would be able to get a much-much better return for him.

As a note, you are off by one year on Bledsoe's salary. It is fully guaranteed in 20-21 ($16.875M) and 21-22 ($18.125M). He is then only partially guaranteed in 22-23 ($3.9M on a base of $19.375M).

That means he's guaranteed about $39M total for the next two years - plus the $3.9M for 22-23 if he's released.

That's not a bad salary for a player of his caliber. But it's not great either.


The Wizards are also going to be really bad while Beal is there. Beal can also opt out after the 21-22 season so the Wizards only have Beal for 2 more seasons the same with Wall but there is no way Wall is rejecting that player option. I don't believe Wall will ever be the player he was again so he won't get a better contract than what he has now.

Taking on Bledsoe gives them another option to trade for another mid 1st round pick. The Wizards will be competing for the #1 pick for the next 3-5 years and they should be trying to acquire as many 1st round picks as possible in that time span.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#30

Posted: October 23, 2020, 12:43 PM Post
Posts: 5468
Location: Madison, WI
I fully agree that's what WAS should do, that's been my whole logic on chasing Beal too. But I'm skeptical if that's actually what they will do. They seem a team content to chase the 8. But they do have a new GM so maybe that will change.

Wall's contract is a killer to competing the next few years (while Beal is this good) so why not fully own it and go full tank to plan on 2024ish. Heck, if Wall can put up some good stats on a bad team maybe you can trade him later to get out of some of that deal too. They own all their own picks. Add ours this year, full tank for top 3 next year and the year after. The hope whatever picks they get back from us or whoever they trade Beal to end up top 15 somehow. Like you said, can flip Bledsoe for a protected first to someone like Orlando as well. Problem is I think they're too stubborn/dumb to do this unless Beal forces their hand.

I'm also surprised Beal has been such a good trooper for them. It's been widely reported he and Wall don't get along, the team has been bad for years, future is bad due to Wall. Seems like the perfect situation to push your way out and be justified in doing so, I've been surprised by it.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#31

Posted: October 23, 2020, 2:51 PM Post
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I've heard Myles Turner for Brook Lopez before. Indiana really needs scoring. For us, Turner is one of those defensive players who does all the little things really well and he's good at defending the pick-and-roll.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#32

Posted: October 27, 2020, 11:41 PM Post
Posts: 4929
tmwiese55 said:
I fully agree that's what WAS should do, that's been my whole logic on chasing Beal too. But I'm skeptical if that's actually what they will do. They seem a team content to chase the 8. But they do have a new GM so maybe that will change.

Wall's contract is a killer to competing the next few years (while Beal is this good) so why not fully own it and go full tank to plan on 2024ish. Heck, if Wall can put up some good stats on a bad team maybe you can trade him later to get out of some of that deal too. They own all their own picks. Add ours this year, full tank for top 3 next year and the year after. The hope whatever picks they get back from us or whoever they trade Beal to end up top 15 somehow. Like you said, can flip Bledsoe for a protected first to someone like Orlando as well. Problem is I think they're too stubborn/dumb to do this unless Beal forces their hand.

I'm also surprised Beal has been such a good trooper for them. It's been widely reported he and Wall don't get along, the team has been bad for years, future is bad due to Wall. Seems like the perfect situation to push your way out and be justified in doing so, I've been surprised by it.



I would agree Washington should be tanking as well...I just would think they'd be able to get a lot more for one of the best SG's in the NBA.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#33

Posted: October 27, 2020, 11:46 PM Post
Posts: 4929
nate82 said:
reillymcshane said:
nate82 said:

Crazy never going to happen trade
Bucks receive: Simmons
Rockets receive: Bledsoe and Embiid
76ers receive: Westbrook, Covington and Ilyasova

This is never happening. The Sixers give up Embiid and Simmons and end up with Westbrook and Covington? That's a terrible deal for them.

Bucks make out like bandits. It's basically Bledsoe for Simmons. No way.

Ilyasova at $7M doesn't really add value.


Simmons isn't all that good as he can only score by driving to the basket and that is it. His jump shot is worse than Bledsoe's and probably on par with Giannis. Simmons hasn't shown any willingness to improve his jump shot at all.

Westbrook is by far a better PG and makes the 76ers ar far better team. Covington while he is not Embiid is a really good center. He is also really cheap. The amount of cap space the 76ers gets should allow them to go after Giannis if he doesn't re-sign with the Bucks.

The trade is also titled the Crazy never going to happen trade.


Ok, Simmons doesn't have a good jump shot...but neither does Westbrook.

Simmons is a better defender...can defend all 5 positions, a better passer, and almost 8 years younger.

I don't think Simmons is a better player than Westbrook, but even if you argue he is, I don't see how he's nearly as valuable a player.

It's kinda moot anyway as the Sixers said they're not trading either of their young stars though.


Last edited by HiAndTight on October 31, 2020, 6:55 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#34

Posted: October 29, 2020, 2:28 PM Post
Posts: 956
reillymcshane said:
nate82 said:
Trades:
Wizards receive Bledsoe, Wilson, 2020 1st round pick, 2024 1st round pick (unprotected)
Bucks receive: Beal

I think this undervalues Beal by a lot.


Beal
I Smith

for

Bledsoe
Wilson
DDV
2020 1st (#24 from Pacers)
2021 1st


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#35

Posted: October 30, 2020, 4:04 PM Post
Posts: 4929
Mr Southpaw said:
reillymcshane said:
nate82 said:
Trades:
Wizards receive Bledsoe, Wilson, 2020 1st round pick, 2024 1st round pick (unprotected)
Bucks receive: Beal

I think this undervalues Beal by a lot.


Beal
I Smith

for

Bledsoe
Wilson
DDV
2020 1st (#24 from Pacers)
2021 1st



I don't think adding Ish Smith makes the deal more likely for the Bucks. He's a nice player in his own right. Not an elite player, but a nice role player.

Beal just fits so perfectly with the Bucks...but I have a really hard time seeing a trade work out between the two teams. MAYBE if they would try and work out a 3 team trade and be willing to part with Middleton. Maybe the Sixers are willing to trade for Midds, they send picks and players to the Wizards, the Bucks send DDV, their 1st(they don't own their 2021 1st)...then I guess maybe they could work something out.

I almost wonder if the Bucks are better off signing whoever they can for the MLE as a FA which should be for ~4/40...a more enticing offer this year, provided you add an opt-out pretty early on...you might get a player who'd normally get much more, but with teams conserving cap space trying to go after Giannis next year, it'd be a one-year rental. But then waiting on any major trades unless you can convince a team like Sac to trade you Buddy for whatever few assets you have...or if you can really hit the HR and get Beal somehow. I just don't think it's likely.

John Wall's probably more realistic than Beal...and I know that idea would go over about as well as a far in an elevator on this board.


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Online  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#36

Posted: October 30, 2020, 5:52 PM Post
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I saw a proposal of oladipo for Bledsoe and the pacers getting their first back. I would do that.

reillymcshane said:
Remember what Yoda said:

"Cubs lead to Cardinals. Cardinals lead to dislike. Dislike leads to hate. Hate leads to constipation."


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#37

Posted: October 30, 2020, 6:17 PM Post
Posts: 956
Beal
I Smith

for

Bledsoe
Wilson
DDV
2020 1st (#24 from Pacers)
2021 1st[/quote]


I don't think adding Ish Smith makes the deal more likely for the Bucks. He's a nice player in his own right. Not an elite player, but a nice role player.

Beal just fits so perfectly with the Bucks...but I have a really hard time seeing a trade work out between the two teams. MAYBE if they would try and work out a 3 team trade and be willing to part with Middleton. Maybe the Sixers are willing to trade for Midds, they send picks and players to the Wizards, the Bucks send DDV, their 1st(they don't own their 2021 1st)...then I guess maybe they could work something out.

I almost wonder if the Bucks are better off signing whoever they can for the MLE as a FA which should be for ~4/40...a more enticing offer this year, provided you add an opt-out pretty early on...you might get a player who'd normally get much more, but with teams conserving cap space trying to go after Giannis next year, it'd be a one-year rental. But then waiting on any major trades unless you can convince a team like Sac to trade you Buddy for whatever few assets you have...or if you can really hit the HR and get Beal somehow. I just don't think it's likely.

John Wall's probably more realistic than Beal...and I know that idea would go over about as well as a far in an elevator on this board.[/quote]
_______________________________________________
I believe they do own the rights to their 2021 1st pick https://www.prosportstransactions.com/b ... /Bucks.htm I think the trade I proposed is fair, if they don't like it then move on to another.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#38

Posted: November 02, 2020, 11:42 AM Post
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leaked bucks city uniforms. I don't get it. An homage to lake michigan?

https://twitter.com/camisasdanba/status ... n-treat%2F


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#39

Posted: November 03, 2020, 8:36 AM Post
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Posts: 636
Greece's national colors are blue and white as I recall. All part of keeping Giannis in Milwaukee?


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
#40

Posted: November 16, 2020, 1:59 PM Post
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Chris Paul to Phoenix. Plus Dennis Schröder to the Lakers.

That takes a couple of potential off season targets away from the Bucks.

I'd of loved to have Paul - but his salary ($44M a year), plus what it took to get him would have been pretty hard to manage.


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