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Bucks 2020 offseason thread

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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: November 26, 2020, 6:18 PM Post
Posts: 5151
wildcat83 said:
HiAndTight said:
nodakfan17 said:
I’ll buy the argument that the Bucks should sacrifice bench depth for improving their starting 5 because good teams lean on their starters in the playoffs when games matter more.

The one thing I can’t reconcile is that Jrue Holiday was the best available upgrade. No disrespect to Jrue (I think he’s a decent player), but the current ownership group inherited their two best players from the previous regime. And the best player they’ve added in 6 years is Jrue Holiday?



I think you're really-really underestimating how good of a player Jrue Holliday is.

I think the addition of Holliday makes Middleton your 3rd best player.


The problem is Holiday is our second best player, and that’s not good enough. To win a title they needed a second super star. They don’t have the resources to bring one here and I don’t envision a scenario where one signs here. I think Giannis signs the extension and tries one last time to win here, but they will fall short again and he’ll demand the trade.



Disagree with the premise that you need two superstars to win a title. Plenty of teams have disproven that, but alright.

You think Giannis is going to sign an extension, THEN he's going to demand a trade when they don't win? And at that point, why would the Bucks go along? They'd control Giannis for FIVE more seasons and they'd have lost all their draft capital through that period of time.


Basketball is more than a 2 man game. Again, had Bledsoe been 80 pct of what he'd been in the regular season, we're likely playing in the NBA finals two years ago and beating the Warriors. So saying we CAN'T win with Jrue or Middleton as our #2/3 options, we've been competing the last two years with Middleton as our #2 option and our PG doing almost nothing but coming up short in the biggest moments.

I can't imagine people would be saying we're not good enough to win had we acquired Bogdan...an inferior player to Jrue Holiday, so obviously it comes down to quite a bit more than just our 2nd star.

The Bucks have 3 AS's now who all play defense and then some really nice pieces around them. I don't know if it'll be enough. I don't know how good the Nets will be with KD, how good the Heat will be, how the Lakers will be with LeBron getting closer to 40 or how good the Warriors will be without Klay all year(actually, I'm pretty sure they won't be good enough). But I know we're certainly talented enough to be in that mix...and who knows what happens in-season.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: November 27, 2020, 7:08 AM Post
Posts: 2244
HiAndTight said:
Basketball is more than a 2 man game.

I agree, but the Lakers just won a title with LeBron James, Anthony Davis, and a bunch of filler. They had 2 of the best 5 players in the world and they just bullied their way to a title. Even the 2018-19 Raptors had an emerging Pascal Siakam who was a 2nd Team All-NBA player this year. The formula is pretty clear. You need two All-NBA players to win a title - not just two All-Stars, but two of the best 15 players in the world.

My biggest complaint about the new ownership group (besides the cronyism and nepotism) is that they really haven’t improved the roster. They inherited their two best players from Senator Kohl. So after 6 years, here they sit on the verge of losing a generational talent with no championships, no cap space, and no assets.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: November 28, 2020, 2:08 AM Post
Posts: 5151
nodakfan17 said:
HiAndTight said:
Basketball is more than a 2 man game.

I agree, but the Lakers just won a title with LeBron James, Anthony Davis, and a bunch of filler. They had 2 of the best 5 players in the world and they just bullied their way to a title. Even the 2018-19 Raptors had an emerging Pascal Siakam who was a 2nd Team All-NBA player this year. The formula is pretty clear. You need two All-NBA players to win a title - not just two All-Stars, but two of the best 15 players in the world.

My biggest complaint about the new ownership group (besides the cronyism and nepotism) is that they really haven’t improved the roster. They inherited their two best players from Senator Kohl. So after 6 years, here they sit on the verge of losing a generational talent with no championships, no cap space, and no assets.



Yeah, but Siakam wasn't a 2nd team All NBA player the year they won it. That's the key here. He DEVELOPED into that after. He took a big jump. They didn't have a 2nd player who was as good as Jrue the year they beat us. Lowry was a Bledsoe type player for most of his career, a guy who choked in the post-season.

And the formula isn't clear. You can win with a Superstar and then a couple of next-level stars and a really good supporting cast. I also don't see how they went from likely to sign him to "the verge of losing him," without him saying anything.

And they HAVE improved the roster...quite a bit. Not as much as we'd have liked, but you're underestimating what guys like Portis, Augustine, DD can do.

Not to mention, a 26-year-old who Pop said was the leader of the Spurs who's a 40 pct 3 point shooter.
Portis is a 6'10 big who just two years ago gave you 14/8 while shooting just under 40 from 3.
Augustine shot 42 pct from 3 from 2017-18 through 2018-'19.

And it's pretty much a given the Bucks are going to add an impact player who gets bought out at some time during next regular season.




The Bucks are a BETTER playoff team than they were the last two years and they were the best regular-season team, were up 2-0 on the Raptors, lost an OT game and another heartbreaker as the Raptors won the title, then lost to a Heat team that got hot this year and then suffered injuries as they got banged up in the post-season.


Again...if they were THAT close the last two years, the way they've improved 1-8...there's no reason they can't win. I absolutely believe they'd have beaten the Lakers. The Heat was just a very tough matchup. But history does NOT show that you need two All-NBA players to win a title.

And we should also add the caveat that Giannis is just 25 years old and they've given him more shooting and they will likely still add someone in-season.


But I go back to the same question. If they'd have signed Bogdan, would anyone be saying you "can't win without two Superstars?" I really doubt it since everyone was talking about how we had the best starting lineup in the NBA. But he was our 4th best player(assuming it would have gone through).

I don't believe DD, Augustine and Forbes are BETTER than Bogdan, but I don't think the drop off will be AS big. Especially if DD continues to improve as he actually compared favorably to Bogdan last year in RPM(though we can all agree a lot of that is due to playing with Giannis).


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: November 28, 2020, 5:57 AM Post
Posts: 2244
Which of these rosters would you rather have?

Roster A:
- Giannis Antetokounmpo
- Khris Middleton
- #2 overall pick
- all of your own draft picks
- some cap space
- some filler

Roster B:
- Giannis Antetokounmpo
- Khris Middleton
- Jrue Holiday
- Brooke Lopez
- no first round picks
- no cap space
- some filler

I know this is an oversimplification, but you can’t tell me the Bucks are that much better off than they were when Lasry and Edens took over. They inherited their best two players and these guys act like they are God’s gift to Milwaukee.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: November 28, 2020, 9:48 AM Post
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When Lasry & Edens took over, the Bucks had been 8th Seed Champions for 20 years. This will be our third consecutive season as legit title contenders. That's enough for "much better off" in my book.

Yes, that is almost exclusively a result of the transformation Giannis has undergone since they bought the team (& kept it in Milwaukee & got a new arena built & made dowtown a destination again), but they've created an organizational culture & infrastructure that has Giannis at least considering staying here long term, which is pretty much all that matters.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: November 29, 2020, 12:13 PM Post
Posts: 6223
https://twitter.com/espnhomer/status/13 ... 22947?s=20

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: November 29, 2020, 12:56 PM Post
Posts: 2244
PinaMadness said:
https://twitter.com/espnhomer/status/1333103763347922947?s=20

Wow. I’ll admit, I’m probably more disillusioned with the Bucks than any other fan on BF, but that’s great news. He’s so darn likable, I can’t help but root for him.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: November 29, 2020, 1:22 PM Post
Posts: 6223
Stephen A. Smith and the rest of the national sports media are crestfallen.

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: November 29, 2020, 1:25 PM Post
Posts: 9102
nodakfan17 said:
PinaMadness said:
https://twitter.com/espnhomer/status/1333103763347922947?s=20

Wow. I’ll admit, I’m probably more disillusioned with the Bucks than any other fan on BF, but that’s great news. He’s so darn likable, I can’t help but root for him.


Like I've been saying, there's no reason NOT to sign the supermax. $38MM more, chance to win with the team he loves, and if it doesn't work he can get traded in 3 years when he still has prime years left.


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Online  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: December 01, 2020, 9:35 AM Post
Posts: 14051
He should demand a trade after the uniforms they just released for next year.


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Online  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: December 01, 2020, 9:39 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:
He should demand a trade after the uniforms they just released for next year.


Yikes. Also not a fan.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: December 01, 2020, 9:48 AM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
MrTPlush said:
He should demand a trade after the uniforms they just released for next year.


Yikes. Also not a fan.

Looks like something the Greece National Team would wear. [smile]


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: December 01, 2020, 10:28 AM Post
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I actually like them, but they don't really scream "Bucks"...


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: December 01, 2020, 11:39 AM Post
Posts: 4064
Saw something that they went with 'Milwaukee means where the waters collide' or something like that. Is that what Milwaukee means? If so, I had no idea.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: December 01, 2020, 11:42 AM Post
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stoutdude04 said:
Saw something that they went with 'Milwaukee means where the waters collide' or something like that. Is that what Milwaukee means? If so, I had no idea.

Here you go:


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: December 01, 2020, 1:12 PM Post
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Gathering Place by the Waters


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Online  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: December 01, 2020, 1:52 PM Post
Posts: 14051
Too bad the whole jersey isn't the baby blue...that would have been slick. The weird curve and the two different blues AND the black on the shorts...kind strange. Save me the reason why it is like that...its ugly.

I guess making a jersey with zero relation to the actual team colors is always a bit on the strange side.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: December 01, 2020, 2:10 PM Post
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The full effect of the uniform looks way slicker than just the jersey or just the shorts, at least to me. I'm not a particularly huge fan of them, but, yeah.

Image

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

Twitter: @MKEHiker
Website: http://www.mkehiker.com


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: December 01, 2020, 2:24 PM Post
Posts: 6223
reillymcshane said:
stoutdude04 said:
Saw something that they went with 'Milwaukee means where the waters collide' or something like that. Is that what Milwaukee means? If so, I had no idea.

Here you go:

This is what I thought of immediately. [smile]

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: Bucks 2020 offseason thread
Posted: December 01, 2020, 2:25 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
I hope ABCDEFG is the guy that will finally get this team to the finals.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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