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Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease

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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 06, 2017, 3:58 PM Post
Posts: 911
Easiest way to say it is you can't walk anywhere. It's the game and Drive 20 minutes to the restaurant, hotel, etc.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 06, 2017, 4:11 PM Post
Posts: 220
Location: Milwaukee
Outside of Scottsdale Stadium are there any other stadiums you can walk to hotels, restaurants, bars, shopping, etc? Even Talking Stick to Salt River would be an awful walk. Maybe Sloan (east side of park)? You're driving everywhere unless you're a Giants fan basically


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 06, 2017, 4:38 PM Post
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Humans Need Water said:
nate82 said:
A Swing and A Drive said:

I lived in neighboring Glendale a few years after Maryvale Stadium was built and worked at Maryvale in the ticket office for a season. It was my favorite Spring Training Stadium at the time and I visited every park. It is probably still in my Top 5 even with all the newer built ones since then. I love the outfield lawn and the area down the 1B line to seek autographs from players as they head to the locker room. Maryvale Baseball Stadium is like a young baseball fan's dream in my opinion.

Also, you posters that visited in your rental cars and haven't actually lived in this area are making out Maryvale to be like Compton or something.

I actually think it's pretty offensive actually to anyone who has actually lived in the area.


All of the locals I have talked to here will not go near Maryvale at night. During the day there are only a small amount of areas in the Phoenix area that I would not go around. There are parts of downtown Phoenix I will not go near during the day or night. I forget what the locals call the Maryvale hospital but it is not a nice nickname for that hospital basically nearly all of the gun shot, stabbings, and other violent crime victims go to that hospital. In general the area around Maryvale is rather nice which is basically the definition of the greater Phoenix area. There are parts of Surprise that are not that good you can go from million dollar homes in anywhere in the greater Phoenix area and then run into am I in a third world country?

Maryvale is not as bad as Detroit or Wilmington Delaware but it can be rather bad late at night. There is a reason why the Brewers don't play that many games in the evening at Maryvale.

Does playing night games at home matter? If the Brewers don't play any because the neighborhood sucks then what's the reason the Giants only played 2 night games in downtown Scottsdale this past March? The Rockies and Dbacks combined to play 1 night game at Salt River and that's a great location with Talking Stick and Top Golf across the freeway. The Cubs played 2 at Sloan. Who cares what happens at night in Maryvale - nothing ever happens during the morning/afternoon when games are played. Has anyone ever heard of anything happening....serious question....because I've never seen nor heard anything.


I'm only going off of memory but I think some players' cars got broken into a few years ago plus the whole serial murder that was on the lose for like a year. Obviously both extreme ends of the spectrum but I really don't remember anything else.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 06, 2017, 4:40 PM Post
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Humans Need Water said:
Outside of Scottsdale Stadium are there any other stadiums you can walk to hotels, restaurants, bars, shopping, etc? Even Talking Stick to Salt River would be an awful walk. Maybe Sloan (east side of park)? You're driving everywhere unless you're a Giants fan basically


Isn't Camelback Ranch right next to a shopping center?


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 06, 2017, 6:20 PM Post
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Location: California
So I'm confused on the Gilbert deal. The Mayor says it's dead. The Brewers front office acknowledges ongoing talks yesterday. ABC is Phoenix runs that article. Where does this stand?


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 07, 2017, 4:27 AM Post
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BarneyStinston said:
Why sugar coat it? Maybe south side Milwaukee bad, but not as bad as the ghetto north side?


This is basically saying Hispanic/Latino lower income area vs. an African American lower income area?

WOW. Just wow.

But you are not "scared" to drive from the Caucasian wealthy areas (Brookfield, etc) to the Caucasian lower income area (West Allis/West Milwaukee) to see a game at Miller Park?

Are there any nice hotels and shopping centers within walking distance from Miller Park?

Answer: No

I guess being drunk in a big parking lot shields us from all that.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 07, 2017, 5:44 AM Post
Posts: 414
A Swing and A Drive said:
BarneyStinston said:
Why sugar coat it? Maybe south side Milwaukee bad, but not as bad as the ghetto north side?


This is basically saying Hispanic/Latino lower income area vs. an African American lower income area?

WOW. Just wow.

But you are not "scared" to drive from the Caucasian wealthy areas (Brookfield, etc) to the Caucasian lower income area (West Allis/West Milwaukee) to see a game at Miller Park?

Are there any nice hotels and shopping centers within walking distance from Miller Park?

Answer: No

I guess being drunk in a big parking lot shields us from all that.


That’s a pretty bold acquisition. Curious, are there West Allis neighborhoods or South Side neighborhoods that match Metcalfe Park or Park West in crime rate?
Also, when was the last time you were at Miller Park? There is tons of nice shopping on Miller Park Way. And yes, I’ve walked from Target to Miller Park before even though game parking is “outlawed”. And yes I’ve visited the stores and restaurants before and after games.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 07, 2017, 6:19 AM Post
Posts: 6081
Location: Kenosha, WI
Warning Track Power said:
So I'm confused on the Gilbert deal. The Mayor says it's dead. The Brewers front office acknowledges ongoing talks yesterday. ABC is Phoenix runs that article. Where does this stand?


There was never talking. The Brewers or the development company brought up very simple terms so Gilbert could research the possibility. Gilbert say they have already done so and said no. So quickly they didn't bother even negotiating or sending back a counter offer of any sort. It's possible the Milwaukee employee interviewed for the story isn't kept up with the status of said proposals.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 07, 2017, 8:48 AM Post
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Location: California
MrTPlush said:
Warning Track Power said:
So I'm confused on the Gilbert deal. The Mayor says it's dead. The Brewers front office acknowledges ongoing talks yesterday. ABC is Phoenix runs that article. Where does this stand?


There was never talking. The Brewers or the development company brought up very simple terms so Gilbert could research the possibility. Gilbert say they have already done so and said no. So quickly they didn't bother even negotiating or sending back a counter offer of any sort. It's possible the Milwaukee employee interviewed for the story isn't kept up with the status of said proposals.

From the article on Brewers.com about the Spring Training site:

Brewers executive vice president of finance and administration Bob Quinn confirmed that the team is familiar with a proposal to build a new facility in Gilbert, Arizona.

Seems like a strange article to run specifically when the Mayor says the city of Gilbert has moved on. Peculiar.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 08, 2017, 10:52 AM Post
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http://deadspin.com/study-finds-buying- ... 1797630664

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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 08, 2017, 11:08 AM Post
Posts: 5648
A Swing and A Drive said:
MrTPlush said:
Warning Track Power said:
Anything to keep the Brewers in Arizona and out of Maryvale. Will make for long-ish trips between Gilbert and Surprise but still shorter than trips in the Grapefruit League.


Yah, they are in a great geographical location now. Too bad Maryville is terrible and the stadium is a dumpster.


I lived in neighboring Glendale a few years after Maryvale Stadium was built and worked at Maryvale in the ticket office for a season. It was my favorite Spring Training Stadium at the time and I visited every park. It is probably still in my Top 5 even with all the newer built ones since then. I love the outfield lawn and the area down the 1B line to seek autographs from players as they head to the locker room. Maryvale Baseball Stadium is like a young baseball fan's dream in my opinion.

Also, you posters that visited in your rental cars and haven't actually lived in this area are making out Maryvale to be like Compton or something.

I actually think it's pretty offensive actually to anyone who has actually lived in the area.


You probably don't realize it, but what you just said is probably pretty offensive to people actually living in Compton.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 08, 2017, 12:59 PM Post
Posts: 6081
Location: Kenosha, WI
Warning Track Power said:
MrTPlush said:
Warning Track Power said:
So I'm confused on the Gilbert deal. The Mayor says it's dead. The Brewers front office acknowledges ongoing talks yesterday. ABC is Phoenix runs that article. Where does this stand?


There was never talking. The Brewers or the development company brought up very simple terms so Gilbert could research the possibility. Gilbert say they have already done so and said no. So quickly they didn't bother even negotiating or sending back a counter offer of any sort. It's possible the Milwaukee employee interviewed for the story isn't kept up with the status of said proposals.

From the article on Brewers.com about the Spring Training site:

Brewers executive vice president of finance and administration Bob Quinn confirmed that the team is familiar with a proposal to build a new facility in Gilbert, Arizona.

Seems like a strange article to run specifically when the Mayor says the city of Gilbert has moved on. Peculiar.


That article ran before the public comments by the mayor were said, right? This might have been known to be dead by everyone involved except Bob Quinn. Once it started getting lots of attention the mayor felt the need to publically announce it was dead. So it didn't get bigger than it needed to be.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 08, 2017, 2:27 PM Post
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Location: California
Here is the text of the entire article on Brewers.com:

Whether a stadium proposal moves forward in Phoenix's East Valley or the Brewers remain at Maryvale Baseball Park, baseball operations officials were pleased to see news of progress in the team's ongoing Spring Training saga.

Brewers executive vice president of finance and administration Bob Quinn confirmed that the team is familiar with a proposal to build a new facility in Gilbert, Ariz., about 35 miles southeast of Maryvale. According to the original report in the Arizona Republic, the Brewers could contribute $20 million to the $90 million project. But the club is quick to say they remain open to remaining at their current home in west Phoenix if the city finds room in the budget for further upgrades to Maryvale. It has been home to Milwaukee's Spring Training operation and a Rookie League team since 1998, while also serving as a year-round home for players rehabilitating injuries. "You see what the other facilities look like right now, and all we want to do is have the best in everything we do," Brewers assistant general manager Matt Arnold said. "Whether that's the big league level, the Minor League level, or our hub for Spring Training, that's the goal. If we can accomplish that in Maryvale, that would be great. "Obviously, we would like to have that figured out sometime soon."

Quinn has been exploring options for several years. There are positives to the team's current home, despite its unfavorable location. The Brewers don't share the facility with another team, and the Minor League facilities are on-site. But with the growth of front offices and developments in medical care, Maryvale has become outdated. "In some ways, the intimacy of Maryvale is productive for us as an organization, but baseball organizations have grown in numbers, and we're just out of space," Brewers manager Craig Counsell said. "I think that's the big thing. It's changed significantly in the last couple of years for every organization. "And then there are some quality upgrades that need to be made on fields and things like that. Those are getting to the point they have to be made, in my opinion."

According to the Arizona Republic, officials in Gilbert are reviewing a proposal that calls for a 7,500-seat ballpark, six practice fields, a 55,000 square-foot clubhouse, a 10,000 square-foot office and a 13-acre adjoining village with a hotel, offices and retail. If the project moves forward, it could be open by 2019, the newspaper reported.
"We need to make progress," Counsell said. "We need to improve our facility, whether that is at Maryvale or someplace else."


The whole situation seems odd to me especially now that the Gilbert Chamber of Commerce is hiring a separate consultant given the findings of the first was "limited." This story is not dead by any stretch of the imagination.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 08, 2017, 6:00 PM Post
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dlk9s said:

Wow, that is a really interesting article. For those that haven't checked out that link you should do so. To give an idea the name of the article is: Study Finds Buying Brewers New Spring Training Park Will Lose Money, So Town Buries Study And Commissions Friendlier One

As a side note, I actually invested a lot of effort researching this topic (public finances used towards professional sports venues) for a college class many years ago. In most cases using economic projections to justify using public funding for sports or entertainment venues is going to be significantly flawed and/or a losing battle. One example, the "jobs created" are typically overstated and many of them are of the "seasonal employment" variety. I honestly think a better approach than trying to justify that the stadium is going to pay big dividends to the local economy would be to be stick with the pitch surrounding intrinsic benefits gained by the public in having a team located in their community as well as coming up with creative ways the public could utilize the facility throughout the year to maximize it's appeal as a local landmark.


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Online  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 08, 2017, 6:55 PM Post
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personally I do not see how ANY town investing into a spring training stadium is a good investment. you basically are paying millions of dollars to have a team play games there for 5 weeks that locals have NO connection with. Yes for that time, tourism is very good, but at some point it is a bad investment in how long the ROI is.

that being said, I ould think that if Gilbert falls through some other city would be interested in a new stadium depending on how much the brewers are willing to invest.

I think the best way to get this done is to find a Florida team to pair with, this seems like the best way to get a deal done based on past stadium projects.

it seems that the brewers are the ones being proactive in getting out of Maryvalle, which is a good thing.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 08, 2017, 7:48 PM Post
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Eye Black at Night said:
As a side note, I actually invested a lot of effort researching this topic (public finances used towards professional sports venues) for a college class many years ago. In most cases using economic projections to justify using public funding for sports or entertainment venues is going to be significantly flawed and/or a losing battle. One example, the "jobs created" are typically overstated and many of them are of the "seasonal employment" variety. I honestly think a better approach than trying to justify that the stadium is going to pay big dividends to the local economy would be to be stick with the pitch surrounding intrinsic benefits gained by the public in having a team located in their community as well as coming up with creative ways the public could utilize the facility throughout the year to maximize it's appeal as a local landmark.


I did a similar project when I was working toward my MBA - tried to determine the economic impact of the Carolina Panthers. Nice perk was getting to visit the stadium, meet with Jerry Richardson, go on the field, etc. Eventually presented to people from the Panthers and various government and business leaders from the city.

As you discovered, it was crazy hard to come up with some sort of accurate financial figure. It was basically a bunch of guessing and extrapolating. Like it seems you did, we really talked up the "intangible" impact, like how having professional sports teams makes a city a "big league" city and can help draw businesses and what-not.

It was half B.S., but probably wasn't much different in that regard to what the pros do.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 08, 2017, 8:05 PM Post
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Posts: 4630
Location: Phoenix, AZ
dlk9s said:
Eye Black at Night said:
As a side note, I actually invested a lot of effort researching this topic (public finances used towards professional sports venues) for a college class many years ago. In most cases using economic projections to justify using public funding for sports or entertainment venues is going to be significantly flawed and/or a losing battle. One example, the "jobs created" are typically overstated and many of them are of the "seasonal employment" variety. I honestly think a better approach than trying to justify that the stadium is going to pay big dividends to the local economy would be to be stick with the pitch surrounding intrinsic benefits gained by the public in having a team located in their community as well as coming up with creative ways the public could utilize the facility throughout the year to maximize it's appeal as a local landmark.


I did a similar project when I was working toward my MBA - tried to determine the economic impact of the Carolina Panthers. Nice perk was getting to visit the stadium, meet with Jerry Richardson, go on the field, etc. Eventually presented to people from the Panthers and various government and business leaders from the city.

As you discovered, it was crazy hard to come up with some sort of accurate financial figure. It was basically a bunch of guessing and extrapolating. Like it seems you did, we really talked up the "intangible" impact, like how having professional sports teams makes a city a "big league" city and can help draw businesses and what-not.

It was half B.S., but probably wasn't much different in that regard to what the pros do.


All stadiums are losing propositions for the city paying for them. There is very little economic positives that funding a stadium brings to the host city and the negatives are far higher than the positives. There are some ways you can improve the economic situation but a spring training facility where you are only going to be using it 1/12 of the time per year is rather foolish.

If the Brewers wanted to get really creative they could buy a AAA team and then place that team at their spring training facilities. This would then bring in more revenue for the city but that is still a losing situation for the city but at least you could justify it a little bit more. It is extremely hard to justify spending $70 million on a spring training facility. I am also wondering how long Phoenix is going to be a viable spring training spot. Las Vegas has been creeping up on taking some teams from Phoenix, I don't like the idea of this as one of the major selling points for spring training in Phoenix is the relative closeness all of the facilities are from each other. The drive from Phoenix to Vegas is about 5 hours.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 08, 2017, 8:14 PM Post
Posts: 911
Eye Black at Night said:
dlk9s said:

Wow, that is a really interesting article. For those that haven't checked out that link you should do so. To give an idea the name of the article is: Study Finds Buying Brewers New Spring Training Park Will Lose Money, So Town Buries Study And Commissions Friendlier One

As a side note, I actually invested a lot of effort researching this topic (public finances used towards professional sports venues) for a college class many years ago. In most cases using economic projections to justify using public funding for sports or entertainment venues is going to be significantly flawed and/or a losing battle. One example, the "jobs created" are typically overstated and many of them are of the "seasonal employment" variety. I honestly think a better approach than trying to justify that the stadium is going to pay big dividends to the local economy would be to be stick with the pitch surrounding intrinsic benefits gained by the public in having a team located in their community as well as coming up with creative ways the public could utilize the facility throughout the year to maximize it's appeal as a local landmark.


Great article... I always thought the season was too short, games were in the middle of day, Brewers were really not a big draw to a large percentage of sports fan... to get huge money thru taxpayers to build and upkeep a stadium. If Brewers wanted to foot the bill to build it, have town upkeep it, then it is a more beneficial agreement.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 08, 2017, 8:21 PM Post
Posts: 7190
nate82 said:
If the Brewers wanted to get really creative they could buy a AAA team and then place that team at their spring training facilities. This would then bring in more revenue for the city but that is still a losing situation for the city but at least you could justify it a little bit more. It is extremely hard to justify spending $70 million on a spring training facility. I am also wondering how long Phoenix is going to be a viable spring training spot. Las Vegas has been creeping up on taking some teams from Phoenix, I don't like the idea of this as one of the major selling points for spring training in Phoenix is the relative closeness all of the facilities are from each other. The drive from Phoenix to Vegas is about 5 hours.


Sort of. The Brewers cannot have a AAA team in the Phoenix area. They could in Tucson, which is only 1.5-2 hours from the Phoenix complexes. But as others said, that hasn't been discussed (still a much shorter commute than the Grapefruit League).

Would Vegas make a push for Spring Training? I've heard nothing about it, but Vegas is cooler and windier, with a MUCH smaller population. Part of the benefit to Phoenix is that the greater area has over 5million people (not sure if that includes "snowbirds" or not). While stadiums don't turn profits for those that build them, they are often like museums. Having them is often good for the community, morale, etc, but they don't turn profits.


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Online  Re: Brewers Maryvale Spring Training Lease
Posted: August 08, 2017, 8:43 PM Post
Posts: 451
Kinda of surprised that the year round development aspect (extended Spring Training, the short season AZL and Fall ball) is not played up more.

One more thing, Cleveland & Cincinnati jointly combined for the complex in Goodyear AZ. Surprised that the Brewers don't try to craft something with another club (drawing in the Twins or even the White Sox)...


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