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40-man roster discussion (part 2)

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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 20, 2018, 6:44 PM Post
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Posts: 9258
one spot for a DS to make a move.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 20, 2018, 7:41 PM Post
Posts: 1207
Location: Madison, WI
The timing of the Rule 5 eligibility deadline is just ridiculous.

Does this mean players like Xavier Cedeno and Tyler Saladino are locks to be offered arbitration since they are still on the 40 man roster and now-Rule 5 eligible players like Jon Olczak and Cody Ponce are not?


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 20, 2018, 8:40 PM Post
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Doesn't make sense to not add Gatewood and use all 40 spots. I would hope that the brewers are in a position where they would not need to use a rule V pick on their roster. Also, while there isn't a lot of dead weight on the 40 anymore, I would argue that I would rather keep a player like Gatewood with some upside over an Aaron Wilkerson.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 20, 2018, 9:21 PM Post
Posts: 1913
patrickgpe said:
Doesn't make sense to not add Gatewood and use all 40 spots. I would hope that the brewers are in a position where they would not need to use a rule V pick on their roster. Also, while there isn't a lot of dead weight on the 40 anymore, I would argue that I would rather keep a player like Gatewood with some upside over an Aaron Wilkerson.


I don’t mind, like Gatewood but you have to be a 100 lose team to take a chance on a bat like Gatewood. He is not ready. I don’t know how it works with injuries but tore ACL in July/August as a position player probably keeps him out to June. They can’t just add him & throw him on 60 day correct?

Bigger story I think is how all those trades last year impact our situation this off season! Handful of those prospects just got added. We would have had some real tough calls


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 20, 2018, 9:26 PM Post
Posts: 972
Location: Ohio
YoungGeezy1 said:
patrickgpe said:
Doesn't make sense to not add Gatewood and use all 40 spots. I would hope that the brewers are in a position where they would not need to use a rule V pick on their roster. Also, while there isn't a lot of dead weight on the 40 anymore, I would argue that I would rather keep a player like Gatewood with some upside over an Aaron Wilkerson.


I don’t mind, like Gatewood but you have to be a 100 lose team to take a chance on a bat like Gatewood. He is not ready. I don’t know how it works with injuries but tore ACL in July/August as a position player probably keeps him out to June. They can’t just add him & throw him on 60 day correct?

Bigger story I think is how all those trades last year impact our situation this off season! Handful of those prospects just got added. We would have had some real tough calls


Yes, a R5 selection can be put on the DL (either regular or 60 day version). However, time spent on the DL does not count toward the number of days a R5 selection needs to be on the active roster in order to fully control the player and not have to offer him back (before sending him to the minors).


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 20, 2018, 10:02 PM Post
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YoungGeezy1 said:
patrickgpe said:
Doesn't make sense to not add Gatewood and use all 40 spots. I would hope that the brewers are in a position where they would not need to use a rule V pick on their roster. Also, while there isn't a lot of dead weight on the 40 anymore, I would argue that I would rather keep a player like Gatewood with some upside over an Aaron Wilkerson.


I don’t mind, like Gatewood but you have to be a 100 lose team to take a chance on a bat like Gatewood. He is not ready. I don’t know how it works with injuries but tore ACL in July/August as a position player probably keeps him out to June. They can’t just add him & throw him on 60 day correct?

Bigger story I think is how all those trades last year impact our situation this off season! Handful of those prospects just got added. We would have had some real tough calls


I agree with you that I don’t think Gatewood would be selected. My only point was there were at least a couple of guys that could be removed from the 40 pretty easily. Also, yes the trades at the deadline really made decisions today easier.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 20, 2018, 10:23 PM Post
Posts: 2562
JosephC said:
The timing of the Rule 5 eligibility deadline is just ridiculous.

Does this mean players like Xavier Cedeno and Tyler Saladino are locks to be offered arbitration since they are still on the 40 man roster and now-Rule 5 eligible players like Jon Olczak and Cody Ponce are not?

No, not at all. Apples & oranges. Some teams just choose to get the non-tender thing out of the way now. They have 10 more days 'til that Nov. 30th deadline. Also, players offered arbitration can decline it, although that doesn't seem to happen that often because it changes a definite (though somewhat non-guaranteed) salary to an uncertain one from the player's standpoint.

Not offering arbitration later opens roster spots for FAs, creates roster flexibility for trades, etc. No doubt they'll fill most/all empty spots by spring training, possibly through multiple types of moves.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 20, 2018, 10:30 PM Post
Posts: 325
Leaving spots open (or with expendable players) leaves flexibility for later. Better to leave a guy like Gatewood exposed to the Rule 5 draft if you think he has only a small chance of getting picked than to find themselves needing to expose him to waivers to make room for an offseason acquisition.

And I have a feeling that extra spot would have gone to QTC if not for the injury.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 21, 2018, 11:01 AM Post
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What is the down side of protecting a guy like OTC(or now that he isn't protected for another team to claim him) on the 40 man and then immediately moving him to the 60 day DL or can you not use the 60 day DL in the off season?

If you can't then I can answer my own question.....the downside is roster flexibility regarding signing guys or making trades.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 21, 2018, 11:45 AM Post
Posts: 476
Location: Milwaukee
The 60-day Disabled list is only in effect during the season. Once the season ends, all players on the 60-day DL must be reinstated to the 40 man roster.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 21, 2018, 11:54 AM Post
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markedman5 said:
What is the down side of protecting a guy like OTC(or now that he isn't protected for another team to claim him) on the 40 man and then immediately moving him to the 60 day DL or can you not use the 60 day DL in the off season?

If you can't then I can answer my own question.....the downside is roster flexibility regarding signing guys or making trades.

QTC would be similar to Dubon after his injury, if QTC was added by the Brewers he wouldn't be put on the 60 day DL but would still be taking up a precious 40 man spot all season.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 21, 2018, 12:43 PM Post
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Outlander said:
markedman5 said:
What is the down side of protecting a guy like OTC(or now that he isn't protected for another team to claim him) on the 40 man and then immediately moving him to the 60 day DL or can you not use the 60 day DL in the off season?

If you can't then I can answer my own question.....the downside is roster flexibility regarding signing guys or making trades.

QTC would be similar to Dubon after his injury, if QTC was added by the Brewers he wouldn't be put on the 60 day DL but would still be taking up a precious 40 man spot all season.


All off-season he would take up a spot. Once the season starts he would be put on the 60 day DL.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 21, 2018, 12:45 PM Post
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Players can be placed on the 60-day DL beginning on the day that pitchers and catchers report for their team.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 21, 2018, 1:09 PM Post
Posts: 2676
jerichoholicninja said:
Outlander said:
markedman5 said:
What is the down side of protecting a guy like OTC(or now that he isn't protected for another team to claim him) on the 40 man and then immediately moving him to the 60 day DL or can you not use the 60 day DL in the off season?

If you can't then I can answer my own question.....the downside is roster flexibility regarding signing guys or making trades.

QTC would be similar to Dubon after his injury, if QTC was added by the Brewers he wouldn't be put on the 60 day DL but would still be taking up a precious 40 man spot all season.


All off-season he would take up a spot. Once the season starts he would be put on the 60 day DL.

No, the Brewers have shown they won't do that.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 21, 2018, 8:54 PM Post
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Outlander said:
jerichoholicninja said:
Outlander said:
QTC would be similar to Dubon after his injury, if QTC was added by the Brewers he wouldn't be put on the 60 day DL but would still be taking up a precious 40 man spot all season.


All off-season he would take up a spot. Once the season starts he would be put on the 60 day DL.

No, the Brewers have shown they won't do that.


Never said would or wouldn't. Simply pointing out what they are allowed to do.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 22, 2018, 10:32 AM Post
Posts: 1207
Location: Madison, WI
I'm pretty disappointed that they didn't take Saladino and Cedeno off the 40-man and add Olczak and Ponce.

Especially Olczak, who might have a pretty good chance of being a piece in the Brewer's bullpen shuffle. I still think there is still #4 starter potential in Ponce and IMO is worth a back-end spot on the 40-man roster. No doubt the Brewers probably are looking at Ponce like Tyrone Taylor last year. Here's a guy coming off a mediocre season and doesn't have front-line MLB player potential. Leave him exposed and if you lose him, it's not like you are losing a future All-Star. He comes back and can prove himself worthy of a 40-man spot the following season. I would have added Ponce now but certainly can understand why the Brewers didn't.

Cedeno is out of options so if the team offers him arbitration, it's basically making a full season commitment as they really have no flexibility to send him up and down. IMO Cedeno is just a guy. He has just over five years of MLB experience and has pitched with five different MLB teams. Getting him off the roster saves the team an estimated 1.5 million and gives them money to spend elsewhere. Saladino does have one option left, so I can't argue with keeping him around as the Brewers would have roster flexibility with him and he does provide excellent position versatility.

I really don't think this causes any roster inflexibility. Example, if they sign a catcher then just take Kratz off the 40-man. Then they have the new catcher and Pina, and Nottingham should provide a pretty decent insurance policy. They really don't have a major infield opening if they offer Schoop arbitration, but if they don't offer him arbitration then he's off the 40-man which clears a roster spot for his replacement. In terms of pitching, Wilkerson is still on the 40-man and it don't think anyone would lose too much sleep if the just released Albers and ate the money that he has coming. Broxton is out of options and they might have a real tough time keeping him through next season. I think there is plenty of roster flexibility remaining even if the Brewers would have added a couple more minor leaguers to the 40-man roster.

As a side note, I wouldn't have added Gatewood. Not just because of the injury, but I really question if he has the offensive package to stick in the MLB as a first baseman. I really like Torres-Costa, but with the injury I just can't see another team drafting him. But I would have really liked to see them add Olczak and, to a lesser extent, Ponce.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 22, 2018, 12:12 PM Post
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Why #4 upside for Ponce? For all we know he’s been working on things and his stuff will play up at higher levels. He was a very high pick, and has moved pretty fast


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 22, 2018, 2:17 PM Post
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I believe that a 60-day dl assignment for QTC or any other minor leaguer would result in him accruing major league service time, accelerating his path to arbitration and free agency. Teams are reluctant to do this.


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 4:00 PM Post
Posts: 6007
Jennings expected to be non tendered

https://twitter.com/byrobertmurray/stat ... 54753?s=21


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Offline  Re: 40-man roster discussion (part 2)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 4:58 PM Post
Posts: 1335
markedman5 said:
Jennings expected to be non tendered

https://twitter.com/byrobertmurray/stat ... 54753?s=21


Seems clear that Cedeno took his spot.

Drake --> Logan --> Zagurski --> Jennings --> Cedeno just shows what the LOOGY market is like right now.


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