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2017 Starting Pitching Rotation

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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 19, 2017, 1:29 PM Post
Posts: 129
I really hope we saw Garza's last start in a Brewer uniform last night.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 19, 2017, 4:55 PM Post
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Posts: 591
When is Brent Suter expected to be back from the DL if at all this season?


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 20, 2017, 10:36 AM Post
Posts: 10788
A Swing and A Drive said:
When is Brent Suter expected to be back from the DL if at all this season?


Bet on Sept. 1. Whether or not it's in the pen or starting depends on what other guys do the next 10 days.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 20, 2017, 10:59 AM Post
Posts: 4357
As expected Woodruff sent down to make room for Chase


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 20, 2017, 11:03 AM Post
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There's no reason Woody shouldn't be in Garza's slot come Sept. 1

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 20, 2017, 12:31 PM Post

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markedman5 said:
As expected Woodruff sent down to make room for Chase

unless recalled for an injured player, woodruff will burn his first option, having accumulated more than 20 days optioned.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 20, 2017, 1:18 PM Post
Posts: 975
Garza needs to go.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 21, 2017, 7:20 AM Post
Posts: 509
Location: Madison, WI
Brew4U said:
There's no reason Woody shouldn't be in Garza's slot come Sept. 1


Woodruff should be in Garza's spot now. Pretty incredible that the Brewers are going down to a four man rotation for the rest of the month and decided Garza is one of their four best starters?!

Can't figure out what would be so attractive about Garza's 9.16 ERA/1.98 WHIP in August that would motivate the Brewers to keep him in the rotation. Too small a sample size? How about the totally mediocre 4.81 ERA/1.40 WHIP/5.10 FIP he has on the season. Maybe his historical performance should keep him in the rotation? From 2015-2017 he has a 5.07 ERA/1.50 WHIP/82 ERA+.


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Online  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 21, 2017, 8:10 AM Post
Posts: 10219
JosephC said:
Brew4U said:
There's no reason Woody shouldn't be in Garza's slot come Sept. 1


Woodruff should be in Garza's spot now. Pretty incredible that the Brewers are going down to a four man rotation for the rest of the month and decided Garza is one of their four best starters?!

Can't figure out what would be so attractive about Garza's 9.16 ERA/1.98 WHIP in August that would motivate the Brewers to keep him in the rotation. Too small a sample size? How about the totally mediocre 4.81 ERA/1.40 WHIP/5.10 FIP he has on the season. Maybe his historical performance should keep him in the rotation? From 2015-2017 he has a 5.07 ERA/1.50 WHIP/82 ERA+.


It's probably only going to be 2 starts, but 2 starts is pretty huge at this point in the season.

It'll be Garza vs Moore in SF, which is a very winnable game, but if Garza gets shelled again and we lose 9-8 and end up missing the playoffs by 1 game, that will give Stearns and Counsell something to think about in the off-season, no doubt.

With that said, I'm okay with this one last shot to get back on track, but if he puts up another clunker, it's time to pull the plug. Even if you can't make it til September 1st. Guerra has been pitching well for Colorado Springs and could cover the last start in August since you now can't recall Woodruff for 10 days.


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Online  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 21, 2017, 11:37 AM Post
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I think they'd have had to have gone with Woodruff on 3-days rest to throw him where Garza is throwing @SF.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 21, 2017, 11:48 AM Post
Posts: 2276
Or they could have just gone with their original plan of Woodruff Friday and Garza Saturday but they were planning all along to send Woodruff down no matter how well he pitched or poorly Garza did.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 21, 2017, 12:58 PM Post
Posts: 5880
I like it. I rather limit Woodruff a bit now so he's fresh at the finish line. I still have bad memories of Marcum wearing down at the end of the season. Let Garza have his start, put him on a short leash and Hader will be ready to pitch multiple innings.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 21, 2017, 1:37 PM Post
Posts: 150
Nice to have many arms in minors, but..... At some point Brewers will need a proven starter in trade or FA.


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Online  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 21, 2017, 2:27 PM Post
Posts: 756
Location: New Berlin, WI
FVBrewerFan said:
I like it. I rather limit Woodruff a bit now so he's fresh at the finish line. I still have bad memories of Marcum wearing down at the end of the season. Let Garza have his start, put him on a short leash and Hader will be ready to pitch multiple innings.


Starting in September, we should have enough arms up that Garza should never be allowed to get into a position to allow more than 5 or 6 runs in a game...possibly not even that many. Hader/Suter/Guerra possibly Jungmann...all can go 3+ innings if needed.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 21, 2017, 2:54 PM Post
Posts: 5880
KeithStone53151 said:
FVBrewerFan said:
I like it. I rather limit Woodruff a bit now so he's fresh at the finish line. I still have bad memories of Marcum wearing down at the end of the season. Let Garza have his start, put him on a short leash and Hader will be ready to pitch multiple innings.


Starting in September, we should have enough arms up that Garza should never be allowed to get into a position to allow more than 5 or 6 runs in a game...possibly not even that many. Hader/Suter/Guerra possibly Jungmann...all can go 3+ innings if needed.


I basically agree with that, I guess I was talking more about Garza's next start. If he's bad in that start, no reason for him to pitch again this season. As you said, they'll have lots of options in September.

But when I say short leash for his next start, I wouldn't even let it get to 5 or 6 runs.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 21, 2017, 3:12 PM Post
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In his next start I would have Hader lined up to go or a roster move with a long man called up ready to go. If he stinks in the 2nd, replace him and give us a chance.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 21, 2017, 10:10 PM Post
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Hader hasn't shown anything that gives me confidence he is one of our best 5 starters. He has still walked over 6 per 9 and has an xFIP over 5. An insanely lucky LOB% does not a starter make.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 22, 2017, 3:39 AM Post
Posts: 301
adambr2 said:
JosephC said:
Brew4U said:
There's no reason Woody shouldn't be in Garza's slot come Sept. 1


Woodruff should be in Garza's spot now. Pretty incredible that the Brewers are going down to a four man rotation for the rest of the month and decided Garza is one of their four best starters?!

Can't figure out what would be so attractive about Garza's 9.16 ERA/1.98 WHIP in August that would motivate the Brewers to keep him in the rotation. Too small a sample size? How about the totally mediocre 4.81 ERA/1.40 WHIP/5.10 FIP he has on the season. Maybe his historical performance should keep him in the rotation? From 2015-2017 he has a 5.07 ERA/1.50 WHIP/82 ERA+.


It's probably only going to be 2 starts, but 2 starts is pretty huge at this point in the season.

It'll be Garza vs Moore in SF, which is a very winnable game, but if Garza gets shelled again and we lose 9-8 and end up missing the playoffs by 1 game, that will give Stearns and Counsell something to think about in the off-season, no doubt.

With that said, I'm okay with this one last shot to get back on track, but if he puts up another clunker, it's time to pull the plug. Even if you can't make it til September 1st. Guerra has been pitching well for Colorado Springs and could cover the last start in August since you now can't recall Woodruff for 10 days.



My impression on them sending Guerra down was for him to get a couple starts and then come back up. He hadn't pitched THAT poorly. I go back to that Pitt start where he came out and for the first 5 innings he looked like he did last year before tiring, then had a bad start, and then obviously didn't give up any runs, but was taken out after 3 innings despite not allowing any runs because his control was so bad.

We'll probably need something like him pitching like he did last year, or a young guy coming up and having a surprisingly good Sept for us to have a shot at the playoffs. I don't see the Brewers making it to the end of the season even in a race with Garza pitching..in any capacity.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 22, 2017, 3:43 AM Post
Posts: 301
Ennder said:
Hader hasn't shown anything that gives me confidence he is one of our best 5 starters. He has still walked over 6 per 9 and has an xFIP over 5. An insanely lucky LOB% does not a starter make.



You can't just blame EVERYTHING that goes against the norm on luck. Hader's stuff is electric and while he struggles with command, he's able to walk guys and then leave them on base because he's so hard to hit.

I don't know what Hader's gonna do in the future, but the guy has incredible stuff and is almost uninhabitable vs lefties in particular so his LOB% is likely going to defy statistical norms.

To be a successful long term pitcher...obviously he's gonna have to bring his walk rate down by...at least 1/3rd...which would still be high.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Starting Pitching Rotation
Posted: August 22, 2017, 6:06 AM Post
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It is a huge amount of luck.

The biggest correlation to giving up runs is letting guys on base and right now Hader is doing that a lot. He's stranded 93% of runners he's given up this year, that should be expected to be about 75% going forward.

He's given up a .211 BABIP against RHB's and .236 overall that is unsustainable, it will regress towards .300 going forward (everyone besides huge GB pitchers do)

He's also faced way more LHB's than he would as a starter thus far (40% vs LHB's).

His xFIP is 5.03.

I'm rooting for the guy, and want him to be a great starter, but thus far, every single peripheral he has shows he's been put in the best possible position to succeed (good on CC for that) and he's been lucky.

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

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