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2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!

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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 18, 2017, 5:25 PM Post
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SomewhereInTime said:
tmwiese55 said:
That's the ESPN talking head bs creeping into everything. Who wants it more, who's clutch, who's distracted by something else etc. It's almost always about the actual game, not some mythological unprovable mental thing.

Cuban had a takedown of Skip/Stephen A about this after the Mavs beat the Heat. Was pretty much spot on and did it to them live. They were trying to blame LBJ's being mentally weak, choking, etc as the reason. At least I think it was them, might've been someone else on espn.


I don't know, I'm kinda ok with talk like that. It's not true at all, and is definitely mostly garbage but it does help give an explanation to the casual fans. The casual fan loves to think his team wants it more and is full of born winners that just get the jobs done. They don't want to hear a bunch of stats they've never heard of.

With local sports talk radio, why not simplify things a bit so maybe more casual fans come out and enjoy a game? Even if it's not really true.



It may not be true and it is certainly not sufficient, but it is completely necessary.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 18, 2017, 5:54 PM Post
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Eric Byrnes said on MLB tonight that he expects this Brewer team to be in the battle for a playoff spot in September. He just gushed about what they are doing. Of course he gives tons of credit to his former teammate Counsell. Then they had a graphic up with "Counsell' s Castoffs"


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 18, 2017, 5:58 PM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
Eric Byrnes said on MLB tonight that he expects this Brewer team to be in the battle for a playoff spot in September. He just gushed about what they are doing. Of course he gives tons of credit to his former teammate Counsell. Then they had a graphic up with "Counsell' s Castoffs"



This sounds like he wants a job. After all, 30+ year old journeymen named Eric is the new market inefficiency, no?


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 18, 2017, 6:26 PM Post
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If they keep this up much longer they are only going to get my hopes up for a harder crash. This season was supposed to feel like 2005 at best but probably more closer to 2004. Instead, it's feeling like 2007 and making me reminisce about 2008.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 18, 2017, 6:32 PM Post
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Location: Green Bay for the summer.
JohnBriggs12 said:
Eric Byrnes said on MLB tonight that he expects this Brewer team to be in the battle for a playoff spot in September. He just gushed about what they are doing. Of course he gives tons of credit to his former teammate Counsell. Then they had a graphic up with "Counsell' s Castoffs"


If you go to the ESPN website's MLB page (or go to mlb.com) you won't find an article about the Crew. Even if they believe this won't last isn't it still newsworthy for the Brewers to be leading the division?


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 18, 2017, 7:10 PM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
Oxy said:
SomewhereInTime said:
tmwiese55 said:
That's the ESPN talking head bs creeping into everything. Who wants it more, who's clutch, who's distracted by something else etc. It's almost always about the actual game, not some mythological unprovable mental thing.

Cuban had a takedown of Skip/Stephen A about this after the Mavs beat the Heat. Was pretty much spot on and did it to them live. They were trying to blame LBJ's being mentally weak, choking, etc as the reason. At least I think it was them, might've been someone else on espn.


I don't know, I'm kinda ok with talk like that. It's not true at all, and is definitely mostly garbage but it does help give an explanation to the casual fans. The casual fan loves to think his team wants it more and is full of born winners that just get the jobs done. They don't want to hear a bunch of stats they've never heard of.

With local sports talk radio, why not simplify things a bit so maybe more casual fans come out and enjoy a game? Even if it's not really true.



It may not be true and it is certainly not sufficient, but it is completely necessary.


True, it's all in good fun. One thing in this realm in baseball that I think does have some merit relates to players after they get their massive payday and then start to regress, which happens often. You don't wanna say they don't want it as much, don't try etc. But isn't it a bit natural to knock work quite as hard afterwards? Not that they're not giving their all on the field, but the offseason work, film work, cagework etc. You worked your whole life for that payday, made it usually through 7-10 years of grinding minors and making it through arbitration low pay. You finally got it, I'm sure some take a breath at that point. However, in baseball many get this payday at an age when regression is about to hit anyway so it's tough to really put too much stock in it. Sorry for rambling, it's just something that's popped into my head a lot over the last 15ish years watching so many players who go to the Yanks for the payday and this happens, but of course you see elsewhere as well.

As it relates to this discussion. Brewers have a team outside of 2 guys who really haven't made big time significant life changer money yet. There's no bigger motivator than the almighty dollar. Of course working as hard as you can and trying best doesn't matter if you don't actually have skill. But that motivation can certainly help you get all you can out of what you do have for talent. Of course the fallacy of this is simply to say, why not play all young guys who still need to get paid and that there's been plenty of unpaid teams over the years that aren't good, take the Padres today for example. Which is how we end up back at it all being about actual baseball, not stuff like this.

Excited for this weekend. Cubs just swept Reds putting up 9, 7, 9 in runs. Might be breaking out of their shell. Really hope to get 2/3 from them and to get normal games played without rain stoppages making weird games (I haven't looked at Chicago specifically, just with what I see predicted for Madison I expect something hitting them too)


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 2:13 AM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
Eric Byrnes said on MLB tonight that he expects this Brewer team to be in the battle for a playoff spot in September. He just gushed about what they are doing. Of course he gives tons of credit to his former teammate Counsell. Then they had a graphic up with "Counsell' s Castoffs"


As long as a manager isn't completely botching obvious moves or bunting every time they get a runner on 1st (I'm looking at you, Roenicke,) I really don't think there's much difference between the majority of MLB managers. All I really ask is that they keep an open mind about their moves, not being tied to 'convention,' and earn the respect and effort of your players. In those regards, Counsell seems fine to me. I don't agree with all his moves and I think he still has somewhat of a tendency to favor veterans and scrappy journeymen over young players, but I generally like him.

I do think that calling the roster 'Counsell's castoffs' is kind of a disservice to the job that Stearns has done finding and acquiring talent .


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 4:51 AM Post
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adambr2 said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
Eric Byrnes said on MLB tonight that he expects this Brewer team to be in the battle for a playoff spot in September. He just gushed about what they are doing. Of course he gives tons of credit to his former teammate Counsell. Then they had a graphic up with "Counsell' s Castoffs"


As long as a manager isn't completely botching obvious moves or bunting every time they get a runner on 1st (I'm looking at you, Roenicke,) I really don't think there's much difference between the majority of MLB managers. All I really ask is that they keep an open mind about their moves, not being tied to 'convention,' and earn the respect and effort of your players. In those regards, Counsell seems fine to me. I don't agree with all his moves and I think he still has somewhat of a tendency to favor veterans and scrappy journeymen over young players, but I generally like him.

I do think that calling the roster 'Counsell's castoffs' is kind of a disservice to the job that Stearns has done finding and acquiring talent .

That is not a great trait for a rebuilding team.

Fan is short for fanatic.
I blame Wang.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 6:27 AM Post
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Managers also have a job and generally speaking have very little job security from year to year. Wouldn't you favor a veteran with some sort of track record over a young guy if your job was on the line? I would assume Counsell has some assurance that is job isn't on the line no matter how bad the team is this year though. I just get it from a job security perspective.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 6:32 AM Post
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In those regards, Counsell seems fine to me. I don't agree with all his moves and I think he still has somewhat of a tendency to favor veterans and scrappy journeymen over young players, but I generally like him.


But what's the proof of this? I don't buy that at all.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 6:43 AM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
MrTPlush said:
The Brewers are on pace for 90+ wins.


I've got money on the over of 70.5!


Nice!


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 7:17 AM Post
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FVBrewerFan said:
In those regards, Counsell seems fine to me. I don't agree with all his moves and I think he still has somewhat of a tendency to favor veterans and scrappy journeymen over young players, but I generally like him.


But what's the proof of this? I don't buy that at all.


Neither do I.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 7:29 AM Post
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Sogard has zero strikeouts and 4 BBs in 22 PA. Nieuwenhuis had 15 K's and 4 BBs in 30 PA. That's a serious offensive upgrade off the bench.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 7:49 AM Post
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One thing that bodes well for the Brewers is that the NL is pretty weak this year.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 10:35 AM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
FVBrewerFan said:
In those regards, Counsell seems fine to me. I don't agree with all his moves and I think he still has somewhat of a tendency to favor veterans and scrappy journeymen over young players, but I generally like him.


But what's the proof of this? I don't buy that at all.


Neither do I.


Nieuwenhuis was on pace for almost 400 PAs in a rebuilding year until he got hurt.

Sogard was immediately thrusted to near the top of the order when being called up. Don't get me wrong, the results have been there so its hard to argue with it in this case, but those are two pieces of evidence. There's about a 1% chance that Sogard is having some career renaissance. He'll cool off, probably significantly.

Not to take too much away from the optimistic tone here, just what I think on him, but I do overall think Counsell is doing a good job, and Stearns is doing a better one.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 11:52 AM Post
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Broxton was struggling heavily and in the minors and Santana was hurt when Nieuwenhuis got most of his playing time though.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 12:17 PM Post
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Ennder said:
Broxton was struggling heavily and in the minors and Santana was hurt when Nieuwenhuis got most of his playing time though.


And Kirk was absolutely killing the ball in Miller Park last season. Hard not to find some playing time for that. Some expect all the starters to play 162 games and that is just not really that realistic anymore. Or that if you don't give your young guys 700 at bats, you're holding down their progression as a player. It's simply not true. Having guys on your bench that can get 300-400 at bats in a season and be productive is the key to success. See this current season.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 12:24 PM Post
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Ennder said:
Broxton was struggling heavily and in the minors and Santana was hurt when Nieuwenhuis got most of his playing time though.


Also Kirk N was the LH bat. Flores was given the opportunity first, and failed miserably. Finally, CC wasn't the one who put him on the roster in the first place, that's Stearns.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 6:08 PM Post
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If Guerra can step in and pick up where he left off last year and Peralta can make the transformation into a very good late inning bullpen guy...Along with Garza finding something...this pitching staff moves from bad to at least decent very quickly. 2 Ws from the back end of the rotation the last couple of days to put us 7 games over .500 could be an important turning point.


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Offline  Re: 2017 Brewers Optimism Thread!
Posted: May 19, 2017, 8:02 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
Eric Byrnes said on MLB tonight that he expects this Brewer team to be in the battle for a playoff spot in September. He just gushed about what they are doing. Of course he gives tons of credit to his former teammate Counsell. Then they had a graphic up with "Counsell' s Castoffs"


I do think that calling the roster 'Counsell's castoffs' is kind of a disservice to the job that Stearns has done finding and acquiring talent .


I saw the same segment at a different time (Eric Byrnes wasn't in studio for this one - it was Harold Reynolds and someone else) and the "Counsell's Castoffs" title was actually complementing Stearns. They were talking about how great of a job Stearns has done acquiring overlooked players. The "Counsell" part was just because he's the manager. They were definitely praising Stearns specifically, though.

They did praise Counsell for letting the young kids play. It was a nice segment.


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