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2017 bullpen

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Offline  2017 bullpen
#1

Posted: March 27, 2017, 8:37 AM Post

Roster Guru
Posts: 1879
the 2017 bullpen is still to be determined for opening day, but if 2016 was any indication, expect a lot of transactions to tweak the bullpen throughout 2017.

one of the effects of trading away three key bullpen players (jeremy jeffress, will smith and tyler thornburg) is that it opens up spots for younger players with minor league options.

it should be noted that unlike the bench, many of the bullpen spots will likely be filled by players with minor league options remaining (number remaining listed in parentheses after his name). it's been a while since the brewers have had that kind of roster flexibility in their bullpen.

what we can likely expect in 2017:

neftali feliz (2, but with service time, able to refuse optional assignment)
jhan marinez (0)
carlos torres (0)

still in camp:
jacob barnes (2)
tyler cravy (1)
taylor jungmann (1)
corey knebel (1)
tommy milone (0, may be kept as a starter)
rob scahill (0, not on the 40-man)

already optioned, but can be recalled at any point during the season:
michael blazek
damien magnifico
brent suter (may be stretched out as a starter in the minors)


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#2

Posted: March 27, 2017, 2:19 PM Post
Posts: 3486
And there in lies why I am thinking if a Pitcher like Peralta is traded away it will come with a BP pitcher from said team.

Kneble just hasn't performed up to snuff as I expected and is warranting a demotion with continued performance issues.
Torres is 34 and pitched his best ever for 2016 by the stats. I wouldn't count on him to produce at or better than last season.
Feliz is a never ending question mark
Jungmann has never been anything but a disappointment.
Marinez is thus far a 1 year contribution.
We will be relying on Feliz, Torres, Marinez and Kneble I assume and all four are questionable at their performance.

Cravy seems well suited to be a long type of rp.
Barnes seems a solid option as well.

Millone seems like Jungmann to me.
Blazek has regressed.
Magnifico just doesn't seem to be to have the tools to be trustworthy outside a 6th in type of play.
Suter you can't predict currently because he's a soft tosser that tends not to translate well when in the Majors.

So I think there's the outside chance a bullpen arm comes from last minute trade, or last of the cuts.


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Online  Re: 2017 bullpen
#3

Posted: March 27, 2017, 2:28 PM Post
Posts: 5471
Peralta will not be traded for a bullpen arm, unless it's some sort of throw-in. A bullpen arm will never be the focus of a trade, at least not until they are competing for a WS title in August down the road.


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#4

Posted: March 27, 2017, 3:37 PM Post
Posts: 3486
FVBrewerFan said:
Peralta will not be traded for a bullpen arm, unless it's some sort of throw-in. A bullpen arm will never be the focus of a trade, at least not until they are competing for a WS title in August down the road.


Says you. When chatter here are about Peralta, Nelson, Anderson being demoted to BP when you have 6 Rotation starters for 5 spots. You seem to think I am expecting a return like Thornburg or Smith and Jeffries by that WS title comment. Peralta by the numbers is a 4ERA SP who can potentially give you 185+IP There is nothing in his numbers to suggest he's heading for improvement.

Team stands to use another BP arm and Texas would seem to have at least 6 that are age 25 or younger at their disposal. Remember Gallardo? Peralta has never shown that ability in comparison to Yovani.

It's odd you are against such a move as you typically want improvements to the ML team. One which I see weakest at BP.
Now you could sit back and trade for a C grade prospect who is likely a pitcher that is a #3 at best or a future BP guy.

There are 3 guys I'd think would be a positive to trade Peralta for, Keone Kela being the best who is coming off a down year that wouldn't be reasonable asking for in a swap with Peralta otherwise.

Let's say Peralta continues along a 4.5ERA SP and the move is to the Bullpen. I'd rather have the Bullpen addition from a trade vs Peralta trying to produce in the Pen. He's already 4.275mil cost. That makes him rather high priced as a Bullpen arm unless he turns in to a Closer/elite set-up man.


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Online  Re: 2017 bullpen
#5

Posted: March 27, 2017, 3:55 PM Post
Posts: 5471
brewcrewdue80 said:
FVBrewerFan said:
Peralta will not be traded for a bullpen arm, unless it's some sort of throw-in. A bullpen arm will never be the focus of a trade, at least not until they are competing for a WS title in August down the road.


It's odd you are against such a move as you typically want improvements to the ML team.


You may have the wrong cat. I'm not all that interested in improving this year's MLB team. I am entirely interested in improving the 2019-??? teams. In no way do I want them to flip Peralta or any trade chip with value for a relief pitcher that may or may not help them win one or two more games this year. I can be optimistic in the optimism thread, but I'll be realistic everywhere else ; )

Not to mention the fact bullpens are unpredictable, so for all we know the Brewers pen may end up being outstanding this year.


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#6

Posted: March 27, 2017, 3:57 PM Post
Posts: 555
There is no way Kela is going anywhere.


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Online  Re: 2017 bullpen
#7

Posted: March 27, 2017, 3:57 PM Post
Posts: 56
Location: New Berlin, WI
I'm not quite so pessimistic about the bullpen. I thought barnes was a lock heading into the offseason but he's been notably struggling all spring, and with 2 options it seems logical to let him work on things in AAA for a bit.

Counsell has been raving about Knebel most of spring, he wouldn't get a demotion in most mlb bullpens much less a likely weaker bullpen. I'm not sure I could find a single shred of legit evidence that would suggest Knebel doesn't deserve a spot in this bullpen.

Final bullpen will probably be Feliz, Knebel, Torres, Marinez, Milone, Cravy. From there my guess is either Jungmann or the 6th starter goes to AAA to start and the other remains in the pen. We have at least 3 guys who can easily go multiple innings if needed...plenty of long relief if starters struggle early.


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#8

Posted: March 27, 2017, 4:08 PM Post
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Knebel's got 13 strikeouts in 7.1 innings this spring - and only one walk. Yes, he has a 4.91 ERA - but again, we're talking 7.1 innings. Gotta like the high strikeout/low walk output thus far (all said with the small sample size caveat).


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#9

Posted: March 27, 2017, 4:20 PM Post
Posts: 3486
FVBrewerFan said:
brewcrewdue80 said:
FVBrewerFan said:
Peralta will not be traded for a bullpen arm, unless it's some sort of throw-in. A bullpen arm will never be the focus of a trade, at least not until they are competing for a WS title in August down the road.


It's odd you are against such a move as you typically want improvements to the ML team.


You may have the wrong cat. I'm not all that interested in improving this year's MLB team. I am entirely interested in improving the 2019-??? teams. In no way do I want them to flip Peralta or any trade chip with value for a relief pitcher that may or may not help them win one or two more games this year. I can be optimistic in the optimism thread, but I'll be realistic everywhere else ; )

Not to mention the fact bullpens are unpredictable, so for all we know the Brewers pen may end up being outstanding this year.


You're right I was thinking of Briggs. But the thoughts aren't just for a 1year guy who adds 1 or 2 wins this year, but a guy who is around for 18 and 19 helping add 1 or 2 wins. Something I don't assume Peralta is about to do this year, the next, or in '19.


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#10

Posted: March 27, 2017, 7:28 PM Post
Posts: 3793
Let's say Peralta continues along a 4.5ERA SP and the move is to the Bullpen. I'd rather have the Bullpen addition from a trade vs Peralta trying to produce in the Pen. He's already 4.275mil cost. That makes him rather high priced as a Bullpen arm unless he turns in to a Closer/elite set-up man.


I think Peralta is the perfect bulllen candidate. Normally I hate moving starters to the pen when their future is in the rotation but I think his time is past. He grows hard and I bet he could bring it in the 96-97 range if he only had to go one inning. Plus he only really needs to focus on two pitches. Given that market for relievers last year and the glut of starting options I think he is best in the bullpen in a 7th inning role and if he succeeds he can move into more late innings roles.


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#11

Posted: March 28, 2017, 9:52 AM Post
Posts: 193
If Feliz and Knebel can solidify the back end of the bullpen, admittedly a large if, I think the Brewers will end up with a good bullpen this year. It might not be the one they start with, though.

Between injuries, trades and the natural churn of the season, a lot of guys will probably cycle through the last couple of spots. I believe a couple of the Barnes, Jungmann, Blazek, Cravy, Magnifico group will show themselves to be effective pen arms (I might be one of the last Jungmann optimists, but I'm sticking to it). They've got options, including a couple of the NRIs who seem like potential late bloomers. There might be some pain along the way, but I think a good group will stabilize by season's end.


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#12

Posted: March 28, 2017, 4:51 PM Post
Posts: 3945
Barnes and Marinez lit up again today.


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#13

Posted: March 28, 2017, 7:07 PM Post
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Posts: 1624
markedman5 said:
Barnes and Marinez lit up again today.


This was the first time for Marinez getting lit up. He's been pretty good this spring.

But it looks like Barnes is going to join Blazek in getting demoted after getting lit up while being told to work on different things.


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#14

Posted: March 28, 2017, 9:18 PM Post
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There is no way Peralta is showing anything with that dreadful K/BB, it is just a lucky ERA mirage. The bullpen as a whole has been below average this spring and I don't have a ton of hope with this current crop of players.

We will find some nuggets but in general it is a weak overall bullpen.


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Online  Re: 2017 bullpen
#15

Posted: March 28, 2017, 9:39 PM Post
Posts: 5471
Maybe, but the pen in September won't resemble what they have now. Stearns will find guys out there to bring in. A couple will pan out, some won't. Just like Torres, Marinez, etc last year.


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#16

Posted: March 29, 2017, 9:58 AM Post
Posts: 555
My bullpen picks
Feliz
Torres
Knebel
Marinez
Barnes (hardest thrower, brewers overlook horrible spring)
Milone (need a lefty but actually doesn't throw as well the young guys getting sent down)
Jungmann (Need to create some value some way. Personally I would make him a starter again, seems to have figured out some things)


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Online  Re: 2017 bullpen
#17

Posted: March 29, 2017, 2:57 PM Post
Posts: 9013
Please don't waste money and a roster spot on Milone. He is terrible.


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Online  Re: 2017 bullpen
#18

Posted: March 29, 2017, 3:20 PM Post
Posts: 5471
adambr2 said:
Please don't waste money and a roster spot on Milone. He is terrible.


Agree. He wasn't good before, try to see if you catch lightning in a bottle, fine. But I've never seen a lefty throw everything so straight in my life. Barnes has been shelled too, but at least he has some tools working for him. There must be some cast offs these next couple days that are better than Milone.


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#19

Posted: March 29, 2017, 4:42 PM Post
Posts: 3486
Milone was shelled today. Can forget that SP idea if he's tossing upper 80s and working up in the zone. Can't have a series where two of the games would feature Davies/Milone. Still awaiting the bullpen add just before Opening day.

Really troubling the thoughts to this team's pitching. This could be a 5ERA bottom of MLB Pitching group. Which best of the 4 teams last year, you would say 5ERA was Colorado at 75wins. Min with 59wins the worst.


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Offline  Re: 2017 bullpen
#20

Posted: March 29, 2017, 4:56 PM Post
Posts: 10422
Looks like an all RH pen to me: Feliz, Knebel, Torres, Marinez, Cravy, Jungmann, Scahill.

I think Milone sealed his fate today. If they go with a 13 man staff, it will mean Garza stays and either he or Anderson will be out of the pen.

A real longshot that wouldn't shock me is if Jungmann grabs the 5th starter spot and both Garza and Anderson are in the pen.


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