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Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers

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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#81

Posted: September 06, 2017, 11:52 AM Post
Posts: 2084
Boomer5 said:



Stearns talks about "acquiring young controllable talent" who are versatile, then cut a 27 year old utility man making less than $3M in favor of keeping a 31 year old journeyman then trading for Walker who is older and will make more than Scooter will all of 2017.


Im confused, who was the 31 year old they kept?


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#82

Posted: September 06, 2017, 11:58 AM Post
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Posts: 911
stoutdude04 said:
Boomer5 said:



Stearns talks about "acquiring young controllable talent" who are versatile, then cut a 27 year old utility man making less than $3M in favor of keeping a 31 year old journeyman then trading for Walker who is older and will make more than Scooter will all of 2017.


Im confused, who was the 31 year old they kept?

I'm confused, who was the utility man they cut?


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#83

Posted: September 06, 2017, 12:26 PM Post
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Posts: 135
hurricanecrush said:
stoutdude04 said:
Boomer5 said:



Stearns talks about "acquiring young controllable talent" who are versatile, then cut a 27 year old utility man making less than $3M in favor of keeping a 31 year old journeyman then trading for Walker who is older and will make more than Scooter will all of 2017.


Im confused, who was the 31 year old they kept?

I'm confused, who was the utility man they cut?


If the 31-year-old is Sogard, that is wrong, because he was sent to the minors.

And calling Gennett a utility man is akin to calling Yuni Betancourt a utility man. Just because they are physically able to stand at a different defensive position doesn't mean they should.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#84

Posted: September 06, 2017, 12:32 PM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:

And calling Gennett a utility man is akin to calling Yuni Betancourt a utility man. Just because they are physically able to stand at a different defensive position doesn't mean they should.


That's disappointing. I guess I'll have to take it off my resume.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#85

Posted: September 06, 2017, 1:36 PM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:

If the 31-year-old is Sogard, that is wrong, because he was sent to the minors.



Ya, Sogard wasn't added to the 40 man until May or so, well after Scooter was gone.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#86

Posted: September 06, 2017, 1:48 PM Post
Posts: 5876
There's no other way to say it; this was a flat out horrendous move by Stearns. It's his job to know that Scooter > Villar.


Sorry, but that's really being naïve. If Stearns (or any GM) knew in advance which players will outperform others with certainty, that GM would win the WS every year.

Every, and I mean EVERY personnel decision carries risk. Not to mention, I still think it was the right move as Villar will turn out to be a better player than Gennett.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#87

Posted: September 06, 2017, 2:21 PM Post
Posts: 6413
Location: Kenosha, WI
Scooter Gennett had little to no trade value. Appointing Villar the 2B and Gennett being on the trading block MEAN NOTHING if Gennett trade value was so great like some think it was. If teams thought he was so valuable there would have been teams bidding against eachother. The only time such a situation hurts a players trade value is when it is already low and it's questionable if another team outside of(the Reds in this case) themselves even would claim him.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#88

Posted: September 06, 2017, 4:41 PM Post
Posts: 150
Big miscalculation by Stearns.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#89

Posted: September 06, 2017, 4:56 PM Post
Posts: 4039
JohnBriggs12 said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
If there was any argument here, it's that the Brewers straight up cut Gennett, rather than trade him. But that's also a indicator that the Brewers had his value pegged pretty close to right on the money. No one would even give up a low-level lottery ticket for get him. That says a lot, career year aside. Sometimes a change of scenery just works wonders.


Gennett's career numbers: .283/.324/.447. He wasn't a bum as a Brewer. [b]They fell in love with Villar based on one year.[/b]

Neil Walker's career numbers: .273/.340/.437

They are essentially the same player only Scooter is 4 years younger. Walker has trouble vs. LHP too by the way (.694 career OPS vs LH). Walker's making $17 million this year.

As to the argument he had zero trade value, that's on the Brewers who annointed Villar the everyday 2B. Nevertheless, the first team with a shot at claiming him off waivers did just that. The Reds were that team. No doubt at least 5 or more other teams would have put in a claim too.


To say it was all because they fell in love with him from one year is disingenuous at best. It ignores that he plays more positions, can steal more bases, is younger and has more years of control than Gennett. It wasn't simply because he had a good year. He has more tools than Gennett could ever have and might be part of the future. Gennett was never going to be more than a two year platoon player who's only real value is his ability to hit for average and decent amount of power for a guy his size. As far as the Reds getting him because they had such high priority in the waiver claims that completely ignores that any team could have actually traded for him of they felt he was good enough to give anything up for. That he made it to waivers in the first place means everybody was willing to take a shot at getting him for free but were not willing to give up even a single low level lottery ticket for him.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#90

Posted: September 06, 2017, 5:09 PM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
Gennett's career numbers: .283/.324/.447. He wasn't a bum as a Brewer.


I like how you add what he's doing in Cincinnati. These were his numbers as a Brewer.

.279/.318/.420. He went from a 127 OPS+ as a rookie to a 107 OPS+ his second year to an 84 OPS+ in his third before "rebounding" to a 92 OPS+ in his fourth. Villar's first four years were .261/.336/.405 while being able to play multiple positions. Not particularly well granted but decently enough to not embarrass himself.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#91

Posted: September 06, 2017, 5:46 PM Post
Posts: 12301
Villar also did not have to be platooned. Gennett's numbers have been artificially inflated by limiting his exposure to lefties.

Fan is short for fanatic.
I blame Wang.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#92

Posted: September 07, 2017, 11:46 AM Post
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Location: Green Bay, WI
First, anyone who uses the term "utility man" to describe Scooter Gennett completely loses me on any argument they wish to make.

Secondly, if the Brewers had any inkling the first-half 2017 Gennett was who he really is, you must also consider the other move that was made to make Gennett expendable: the acquisition of Travis Shaw. Figuring on Gennett as your 2B perhaps would have forced them to consider Villar as the regular 3B against RHP (with Villar shifting to 2B and Perez to 3B against LHP). Because based on their recent histories to that point, there is just no logical reason for not having Villar starting at a position and Gennett had no value as a utility bench player due to his extreme defensive limitations.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#93

Posted: September 07, 2017, 2:18 PM Post
Posts: 546
Point Beer Is Best said:
First, anyone who uses the term "utility man" to describe Scooter Gennett completely loses me on any argument they wish to make.

Secondly, if the Brewers had any inkling the first-half 2017 Gennett was who he really is, you must also consider the other move that was made to make Gennett expendable: the acquisition of Travis Shaw. Figuring on Gennett as your 2B perhaps would have forced them to consider Villar as the regular 3B against RHP (with Villar shifting to 2B and Perez to 3B against LHP). Because based on their recent histories to that point, there is just no logical reason for not having Villar starting at a position and Gennett had no value as a utility bench player due to his extreme defensive limitations.


Well said.

I haven't gone over the whole thread (in case it was noted earlier) but it needs to be mentioned that ballparks do play an impact on offensive production. I don't know exactly where GABP (Great American BallPark) is ranked but I doubt it is outside the top 5 offensive minded parks in baseball. Wherever it is ranked, I feel safe in assuming it is AHEAD of Miller Park in favoring the offense.

Playing half of the games each year in a park like that (after having the career home park as Miller) would help in boosting numbers of any player. Scooter included. His 4 homer game was in GABP and at least 1 of those was barely over the wall.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#94

Posted: September 07, 2017, 8:33 PM Post
Posts: 150
Villar is an embarrassment in the field at 2nd, SS, 3rd and CF. This year he's an embarrassment hitting. Scooter never embarrassed himself in the field, running the bases or hitting. Big mistake by Brewers picking Villar over Scooter.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#95

Posted: September 07, 2017, 9:07 PM Post
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Posts: 6498
newrivervalley said:
Villar is an embarrassment in the field at 2nd, SS, 3rd and CF. This year he's an embarrassment hitting. Scooter never embarrassed himself in the field, running the bases or hitting. Big mistake by Brewers picking Villar over Scooter.


Scooter had a habit of forgetting to touch 2nd base on double plays. That's pretty embarrassing.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#96

Posted: September 07, 2017, 11:16 PM Post
Posts: 12301
Scooter is a bad defense, 2B, platoon only player. We had a team that was building. He had no place on the team. Villar was a young high upside guy. Not a mistake at all. It would have been nice to get something for Gennett but he had no place on the team and it was only a bad choice in hindsight if that.

He is a scrub overachiever and keeps being brought up by Briggs like a few other players. Briggs finds a guy and argues the facts that fit his narrative. Any thread Briggs comments on should be closed. I have had his posts on hidden for years for a reason.

Fan is short for fanatic.
I blame Wang.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#97

Posted: September 08, 2017, 6:42 AM Post
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Please stop bashing other people. We don't play that way here.

Disagree but respect other's opinions.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#98

Posted: September 08, 2017, 6:58 AM Post
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As for Gennett, you can't "blame" GABP for his resurgence this year. Here are his splits:

Home: 306/355/575/930
Away: 290/344/522/865
- Those are good numbers for both home and away.... far above his career norms.

He does, however have massive LH/RH splits:
RHP: 317/368/583/950 in 337 PA
LHP: 226/278/417/694 in 90 PA

But, I fail to see why we have 5 pages of discussion.
- Last year Villar clearly outplayed Gennett.
- This year Gennett clearly outplayed Villar
- Next year...?

I hope no one believes either of their career years is the "real player".

The Brewers have had a lot of players have a career year after a pedestrian career with other teams. Guerra, Sogard, Aguilar...

That doesn't mean DS was wrong in getting rid of Gennett (or right). He made a decision between two non-star starting caliber players. He chose the younger, more flexible defensive player that switch hits. This year made it look bad, especially with the Brewers in the playoff contention. But that doesn't mean it wasn't the better long term decision. If you boil it all down, they are fairly similar players overall with different strengths and different warts.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
#99

Posted: September 08, 2017, 7:40 AM Post
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The writing was on the wall that Gennett's days in Milwaukee were limited, but I was surprised when Gennett was let go for nothing. I thought he was a low-level starting-caliber player who could be an upgrade on several teams. Unfortunately for the Brewers, he was in a low value point of his career after a lackluster season in which he started out hot but never regrouped after he was injured. Stearns tried to trade him but found no suitors, so he cut him. Looking back, this has turned into a bad decision. That happens. Stearns has turned a rebuild team into a playoff contender pretty quickly, so I won't lose any sleep over the mistakes he's made.


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Offline  Re: Reds claim Scooter Gennett on waivers
Posted: September 08, 2017, 10:25 AM Post
Posts: 4039
If the goal is to acquire as much controllable talent as possible and the choice is between two relatively equal value players take the one with the higher ceiling that can be controlled for a longer period of time. That said it didn't need to be between Villar and Gennett as they could have gone with both and cut Perez, Nieuwenhuis, or Aguilar instead.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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