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Depth

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Offline  Re: Depth
#21

Posted: March 31, 2017, 12:49 PM Post
Posts: 2572
Players like Dubon, Diaz, Cordell & Phillips are legit prospects, I don't see them as AAAA types at all. They need more MiLB reps though. Don't want to rush them. Erceg even more so. Brinson might be ready sooner.

Point being that yes we lack high caliber depth at the MLB level but in a rebuilding year that isn't a huge concern

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: Depth
#22

Posted: March 31, 2017, 4:43 PM Post
Posts: 1173
I was reading the top 5 Stat Cast Stories on brewers.com This really caught my eyes. Not sure where this post would fit but here seemed like a good place.

5. Lots of glove
Statcast™'s Catch Probability shows how impressive Broxton was in center field last season, as well as the fact that Braun and Domingo Santana had a tougher time in the corners. Broxton made three 5-Star plays (catch probability 25 percent or lower) in nine chances, a 33.3 percent conversion rate that was third best among outfielders. He also made four of six 4-Star catches, the 10th-best rate. Braun and Santana, on the other hand, often didn't convert more routine plays, especially Santana. On 1-star plays (catch probability 91-95 percent), he made a catch only 75 percent of the time, tied for third worst in MLB.


To me this right here is why he will be odd man out in the future. With the depth we have in the OF that includes mostly all plus Defenders (Brinson, Phillips, then lower Clark, Ray, Harrison) I just don't see any room in the future for terrible defenders if we are going to build a team to contend. Santana can rip the ball but I'd take Brinson over him in RF for next year. Broxton was outstanding in CF so it will be toss up between which one moves to RF. Braun isn't very good either but he is the leader and captian of this young team.

Overall, I hope Santana hits like a beast which he is capable of so we can flip him when Brinson, Phillips, or Cordell are ready.


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Offline  Re: Depth
#23

Posted: April 01, 2017, 8:09 AM Post
Posts: 12267
Yeah Santana is really bad in the outfield and he was completely healthy so what he did last year is a good representation of what we should expect out of him.

Fan is short for fanatic.
I blame Wang.


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Offline  Re: Depth
#24

Posted: April 01, 2017, 9:28 AM Post
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One thing about depth is that you don't necessarily have to have it in your system. You can trade for it - or buy it. It's why having financial flexibility is important. Milwaukee has lacked depth over the years often times because they couldn't afford it when they needed it. We've talked about this before - but having players like Yuni, Izturis, Gonzalez, Overbay, etc. is a killer. They are washed up veterans had on the cheap. We've had too many sub-replacement level players get game time over the years.

I'm not saying we have to splurge for an Andrew Miller type player, but being willing to take on some salary during the year, or trade a 2nd tier prospect to fill a glaring hole - those are the kinds of things that will help us tremendously. And that's what a low payroll and deep system give you.

Yes, you try and have players ready in the minors (or have the major league backups be able to step in regularly), but that's not always possible. But having the versatility and flexibility to fill positions in different ways will be a big asset going forward.


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Offline  Re: Depth
#25

Posted: April 01, 2017, 9:33 AM Post
Posts: 3374
logan82 said:
Yeah Santana is really bad in the outfield and he was completely healthy so what he did last year is a good representation of what we should expect out of him.


Playing what was it 71 games is completely healthy? Ok it was 77games after checking. I said this before when complaining to his defense. Was he supposed to lay it out on the line for someone who was missing games by the 25th game of the season? After the first 22games his longest stretch was the final 16 games of a losing season. To put it this way. Let's move on from a 4WAR+ OF. Over his defense after an injury filled year. I mean if Khris Davis can be 2.8WAR after a .247/307 40HR year with a noodle arm. We are just going to say no to what's likely a .265/.355 40HR guy with a laser arm. So we can insert a guy like Brinson? about .270/.310 with 25HRs at best in him? Who's arm won't be as strong as Santana's.

MLB.com's scouting report has this blurp on Brinson:
Brinson's speed represents yet another plus tool and translates on the basepaths as well as in center field, where it helps him to compensate for what at times can be shaky jumps and reads.

So what's to say Brinson doesn't do what Santana had trouble with during an injury plagued year?

This isn't just a response to you Logan, but for all the Santana diss-ers? Yeah Stearns has built a team and minors filled with defensive bodies, but taking Villar/Broxton/Santana in trades are 3 who happen to be higher On Base types. You know at .355 to maybe even .370 is going to have Stearns quite happy with that. Pick your poison but I prefer offensive superiority over a better defensive player with an average bat. The chances on the fielding to affect meaningful/close games are far less than the chances to impact a game at the plate. You know when your defense outweighs your offense, you become a 1b or DH. Haven't had any of that now have we?


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Offline  Re: Depth
#26

Posted: April 01, 2017, 11:16 AM Post
Posts: 12267
He was never completely healthy and 77 games is to small of a sample to draw any meaningful conclusions. Making any kind of judgement based on last year is misguided at best.

Fan is short for fanatic.
I blame Wang.


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Offline  Re: lack of infield depth
#27

Posted: April 06, 2017, 3:48 PM Post

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MVP2110 said:
The point wasn't 1b exclusively. Its [sic] in general how little Infield depth we have. I apologize if that didn't come across clearly.

the brewers must have felt the same as you . . . hence, nick franklin.


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Offline  Re: Depth
#28

Posted: April 06, 2017, 4:34 PM Post
Posts: 1429
Depth at the MLB level is irrelevant right now. The team isn't going to contend, so if they have to go with a DeJesus or a Franklin for 20 games, so be it.

If you go with a 13 man staff, you arent going to have a big bench, so you have back up OF, C, PH type and INF, and manage the game enough to PH/Double switch when you need to and that's that. You worry about the rest of the schedule tomorrow if you have an injury because a loss today wont matter.


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Offline  Re: lack of infield depth
#29

Posted: April 10, 2017, 5:49 AM Post

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MrTPlush said:
The value of Yadiel Rivera is in the fact he still has options(I believe) and can come up when a middle infielder injury happens and be sent down all year long. I'm guessing Nick Franklin doesn't so he wouldn't hold that same value. Even then though we have so much versatility I don't know if we need a guy in AAA to bounce around and even then we can find any scrub to suck like Rivera.

If he does have an option(s) then I don't really get the need for Rivera entirely.

franklin is out of options.

rivera--currently optioned--will burn his final option this year if he spends more than 20 days optioned to the minor leagues.

unless you count ryan cordell (who is getting some action at third base), there are no other optioned infielders on the 40-man roster.

this is indeed a lack of infield depth.


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Offline  Re: lack of infield depth
#30

Posted: April 10, 2017, 8:08 AM Post
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djoctagone said:
MrTPlush said:
The value of Yadiel Rivera is in the fact he still has options(I believe) and can come up when a middle infielder injury happens and be sent down all year long. I'm guessing Nick Franklin doesn't so he wouldn't hold that same value. Even then though we have so much versatility I don't know if we need a guy in AAA to bounce around and even then we can find any scrub to suck like Rivera.

If he does have an option(s) then I don't really get the need for Rivera entirely.

franklin is out of options.

rivera--currently optioned--will burn his final option this year if he spends more than 20 days optioned to the minor leagues.

unless you count ryan cordell (who is getting some action at third base), there are no other optioned infielders on the 40-man roster.

this is indeed a lack of infield depth.


It may be a lack of depth, but I'm fairly certain they can find a no hit utility infielder somewhere if they need to. Heck, Counsell could come out of retirement.

They're not contending anyways and it's not like they'll be unable to field a team.


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Offline  Re: lack of infield depth
#31

Posted: April 10, 2017, 10:52 AM Post
Posts: 8038
RobertR said:
djoctagone said:
MrTPlush said:
The value of Yadiel Rivera is in the fact he still has options(I believe) and can come up when a middle infielder injury happens and be sent down all year long. I'm guessing Nick Franklin doesn't so he wouldn't hold that same value. Even then though we have so much versatility I don't know if we need a guy in AAA to bounce around and even then we can find any scrub to suck like Rivera.

If he does have an option(s) then I don't really get the need for Rivera entirely.

franklin is out of options.

rivera--currently optioned--will burn his final option this year if he spends more than 20 days optioned to the minor leagues.

unless you count ryan cordell (who is getting some action at third base), there are no other optioned infielders on the 40-man roster.

this is indeed a lack of infield depth.


It may be a lack of depth, but I'm fairly certain they can find a no hit utility infielder somewhere if they need to. Heck, Counsell could come out of retirement.

They're not contending anyways and it's not like they'll be unable to field a team.


Exactly. What does it matter right now? The DeJesus, Franklin, Rivera types are a dime a dozen. If you don't have one on your 40, won't take much paperwork or time on the phone to get one.


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Offline  Re: lack of infield depth
#32

Posted: May 12, 2017, 1:59 PM Post

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djoctagone said:
MVP2110 said:
The point wasn't 1b exclusively. Its in general how little Infield depth we have. I apologize if that didn't come across clearly.

then please consider editing the topic title of your post. "lack of infield depth" perhaps?

feeling a little better now that nick franklin (out of options) and eric sogard (one option remaning) are on the 40-man and 25-man?


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Offline  Re: Depth
#33

Posted: May 14, 2017, 10:28 AM Post
Posts: 8038
It's also a good reminder that 40 man depth isn't really that crucial when filling out your bench.

There are numerous players that aren't even on the 40 (DeJesus, Wren, Cooper, Nieuwenhuis, Dubon), that could easily be added and be added to the bench in a pinch if needed. Notwithstanding bench fodder guys who hit the waiver wire every week like Franklin.


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Offline  Re: Depth
#34

Posted: May 16, 2017, 11:39 PM Post
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Offline  Re: Depth
#35

Posted: May 17, 2017, 7:35 AM Post
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So play GM for me. I know Sogard has an option left and Franklin doesn’t … can Sogard play left at all? I know it is a 10 at bat hot streak … but when Braun comes back what are the reasons to keep Franklin over Sogard at this point? We brought in Franklin to be Scooter with versatility, but it seems Sogard is that guy instead of Franklin, no?


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Offline  Re: Depth
#36

Posted: May 17, 2017, 7:39 AM Post
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With having Thames and Perez on the roster, I'm not sure having Franklin's versatility to play OF is that big of a deal. If Stearns feels that Sogard will bring this team a better bat to the lineup and bench, then he should be the one to stay up. Franklin hasn't done enough to warrant keeping him just because he can stand out in LF and catch routine fly balls.


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Offline  Re: Depth
#37

Posted: May 17, 2017, 7:44 AM Post
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The problem here is playing the extreme small sample/hot bat game. Sogard has 1300 plate appearances in MLB, with a .615 OPS. He's had a great week, but if he gets 200 plate appearances and puts up a .700 OPS going forward, I'd be supremely shocked.

That's not so much I'm saying Franklin should stay as I'm just saying Sogard is what he is.


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Offline  Re: Depth
#38

Posted: May 17, 2017, 8:13 AM Post
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RoCoBrewfan said:
The problem here is playing the extreme small sample/hot bat game. Sogard has 1300 plate appearances in MLB, with a .615 OPS. He's had a great week, but if he gets 200 plate appearances and puts up a .700 OPS going forward, I'd be supremely shocked.

That's not so much I'm saying Franklin should stay as I'm just saying Sogard is what he is.


While true most of the time, it is not an always. Thames is a perfect example of why someone should never be written off if they are willing to continue to work extremely hard at their craft. Not saying Sogard is another guy that we'll catch lightning in a bottle, but you just never know.


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Offline  Re: Depth
#39

Posted: May 17, 2017, 8:27 AM Post
Posts: 1213
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Brew4U said:
RoCoBrewfan said:
The problem here is playing the extreme small sample/hot bat game. Sogard has 1300 plate appearances in MLB, with a .615 OPS. He's had a great week, but if he gets 200 plate appearances and puts up a .700 OPS going forward, I'd be supremely shocked.

That's not so much I'm saying Franklin should stay as I'm just saying Sogard is what he is.


While true most of the time, it is not an always. Thames is a perfect example of why someone should never be written off if they are willing to continue to work extremely hard at their craft. Not saying Sogard is another guy that we'll catch lightning in a bottle, but you just never know.


I generally agree first comments on him being what he is. But you're right, you can get Brady Clark like hot streak that gets you some extra wins. I guess for me it would come to simply who you think is better right now for the next weeks and who has more positional flex and I'd think they'd prefer someone with SS/IF capabilities as a priority, so who do they think is better SS/IF


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Offline  Re: Depth
#40

Posted: May 17, 2017, 8:34 AM Post
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Brew4U said:
RoCoBrewfan said:
The problem here is playing the extreme small sample/hot bat game. Sogard has 1300 plate appearances in MLB, with a .615 OPS. He's had a great week, but if he gets 200 plate appearances and puts up a .700 OPS going forward, I'd be supremely shocked.

That's not so much I'm saying Franklin should stay as I'm just saying Sogard is what he is.


While true most of the time, it is not an always. Thames is a perfect example of why someone should never be written off if they are willing to continue to work extremely hard at their craft. Not saying Sogard is another guy that we'll catch lightning in a bottle, but you just never know.


As long as we're talking about the last spot on the bench, I don't really care. This isn't a developmental spot, or a position that should (hopefully) get more than 150 - 200 plate appearances, so I don't really care who's getting the at bats, really. Sogard is basically Neftali Perez, and he's having a very nice hot streak. If this was the 4th outfielder, or the main backup infielder (Perez), I'd have a bit more of a beef with carrying a guy like Sogard long term, and expecting him to suddenly be something he's not, based on 13 plate appearances.


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