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Pitching staff adjustments?

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Offline  Pitching staff adjustments?
#1

Posted: April 30, 2017, 7:00 AM Post
Posts: 10647
Have to think the leash is getting very short for at least 3-4 arms. Return of Guerra in a few weeks and the fact guys are doing well at AAA means we should start seeing some other guys getting their chance.


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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#2

Posted: April 30, 2017, 7:37 AM Post
Posts: 653
I have gotten the feeling lately that Stearns has given the bullpen a longer leash this season because he doesn't want to admit he with wrong about Cravy and Scahill and because of how publically his move was questioned. Both seem to be doing well in AAA and our bullpen is a dumpster fire so I am not sure what he is waiting for.


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#3

Posted: April 30, 2017, 8:46 AM Post
Posts: 10647
burnzy24 said:
I have gotten the feeling lately that Stearns has given the bullpen a longer leash this season because he doesn't want to admit he with wrong about Cravy and Scahill and because of how publically his move was questioned. Both seem to be doing well in AAA and our bullpen is a dumpster fire so I am not sure what he is waiting for.


If true, that'a terrible way to operate. Scahill in particular had a gripe with not being on the opening day roster. He earned a spot with a strong September and an excellent spring. He never should have been taken off the 40 man in the winter. But even if that's the case why not at least give guys like Burgos and Espino a shot out of the pen? Burgos has a 15-1 K to BB ratio. Espina has 23 K's and 2 BB. They've been really quite good and can't be any worse than Milone and Marinez can they? Or even lefties Wang or Barbosa? I don't think anyone he DFA's will get claimed.


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#4

Posted: April 30, 2017, 9:20 AM Post
Posts: 1740
No way the guys on our staff are our best pitchers.

I really like the offense but no team can win with this pitching staff, from top to bottom.


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#5

Posted: April 30, 2017, 10:16 AM Post
Posts: 1787
Bullpen guys' effectiveness comes and goes. Of the guys who aren't pitching well, who obviously doesn't belong? Marinez earned his spot last year. Feliz has a longish leash for conventional reasons. I would take Scahill over Hughes and probably Suter over Milone, but I think they want Milone as a backup starter, and they ended up needing one. Cravy is a AAAA arm who will get his shot.

The real problem is the rotation. Some people were aghast that Nelson and Peralta had to earn spots. They appear to be the same lousy pitchers they've been. Garza is garbage. Anderson so far has been a pleasant surprise. Davies got off to a bad start last year and then pitched really well, so I'm inclined to give him some time.

The key decisions this year, IMHO, will be about when to try rookie starters over Nelson, Peralta, Garza, and anybody else who craters. When does Lopez get a shot? Woodruff? Hader? I have to believe we have at least two legit rotation guys among our prospects. The trick is identifying them and then phasing them in.

That dynamic, I think, will make or break our season.


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#6

Posted: April 30, 2017, 7:51 PM Post
Posts: 183
One more poor start and Woodruff or Burgos need to replace Nelson in the rotation. I believe Jimmy has options. A Milone-Scahill or Suter flop could also happen. I have no desire to watch any more Nelson starts.


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#7

Posted: April 30, 2017, 7:58 PM Post
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Nelson has been a major disappointment and that what DS needs to attack next


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#8

Posted: April 30, 2017, 8:23 PM Post
Posts: 6267
Location: Kenosha, WI
burnzy24 said:
I have gotten the feeling lately that Stearns has given the bullpen a longer leash this season because he doesn't want to admit he with wrong about Cravy and Scahill and because of how publically his move was questioned. Both seem to be doing well in AAA and our bullpen is a dumpster fire so I am not sure what he is waiting for.


It is quite simple and has nothing to do with not wanting to admit he did something wrong(he didn't btw). They had options so they are in the minors...that is how the game works. The guys here have not had that much time to prove themselves. I am not sure who does or doesn't have options on the MLB roster, but it isn't ideal to risk losing them or burning an option after 10innings of work. Maybe Milone should be shown the door soon, but I wouldn't freak out over any other current performance.


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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#9

Posted: April 30, 2017, 8:40 PM Post
Posts: 3529
Gotta move forward and make some changes. Time to call up Josh Hader and Woodruff then bring in Jorge Lopez for the bullpen. Send down Nelson, Davies and release Milone. Give them some chance and make adjustments as needed. Peralta gets sent down next. I'd let Nelson experience 3 starts in AAA, same with Davies, if no changes, move them to bullpen. If one improves there's your return with sending back down Hader or Woodruff if needed or thats Wily replacement.

These guys aren't starters right now and the bullpen is a joke. Make the sacrifices. Nelson and Peralta's performance remind me of Mat Latos who was better at one point than these two both. Teams dropped him. You can't produce with 1.5 Whips. These two are obviously never going to be anything but below average #5s


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#10

Posted: April 30, 2017, 8:44 PM Post
Posts: 1226
brewmann04 said:
Nelson has been a major disappointment and that what DS needs to attack next


Only a disappointment if you actually thought he was going to be good this year in the first place.


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#11

Posted: April 30, 2017, 9:24 PM Post
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brewcrewdue80 said:
Gotta move forward and make some changes. Time to call up Josh Hader and Woodruff then bring in Jorge Lopez for the bullpen.


None of these guys should see the team in May, that would be a huge mistake. This team is not winning this year, you do not bring up prospects in May on a team that isn't built to win, it is just silly to do it. But yeah the pitching looked ugly going in and has been pretty bad so far. This shouldn't be a surprise. This is a playoff offense with a somewhat weak defense and awful pitching. You aren't fixing that this year, it is a problem you have to target next year and beyond.


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#12

Posted: April 30, 2017, 10:21 PM Post
Posts: 2838
brewcrewdue80 said:
Gotta move forward and make some changes. Time to call up Josh Hader and Woodruff then bring in Jorge Lopez for the bullpen. Send down Nelson, Davies and release Milone. Give them some chance and make adjustments as needed. Peralta gets sent down next. I'd let Nelson experience 3 starts in AAA, same with Davies, if no changes, move them to bullpen. If one improves there's your return with sending back down Hader or Woodruff if needed or thats Wily replacement.

These guys aren't starters right now and the bullpen is a joke. Make the sacrifices. Nelson and Peralta's performance remind me of Mat Latos who was better at one point than these two both. Teams dropped him. You can't produce with 1.5 Whips. These two are obviously never going to be anything but below average #5s


Call up Hader now? He's not even a good AAA pitcher yet. It's frustrating, but we're 3 weeks away from change. Only Woodruff and Lopez have put themselves in position for call ups, hopefully they continue to dominate the minors.

Peralta can stick in the majors as a reliever. The bullpen will settle down, accept for maybe Torres. Cravey and Scahill remain options.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"88.6% of all statistics are made up right there on the spot" Todd Snider

-Posted by the fan formerly known as X ellence. David Stearns has brought me back..


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#13

Posted: May 01, 2017, 2:34 AM Post
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Shortsighted much


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#14

Posted: May 01, 2017, 4:56 AM Post
Posts: 427
Ennder said:
brewcrewdue80 said:
Gotta move forward and make some changes. Time to call up Josh Hader and Woodruff then bring in Jorge Lopez for the bullpen.


None of these guys should see the team in May, that would be a huge mistake. This team is not winning this year, you do not bring up prospects in May on a team that isn't built to win, it is just silly to do it. But yeah the pitching looked ugly going in and has been pretty bad so far. This shouldn't be a surprise. This is a playoff offense with a somewhat weak defense and awful pitching. You aren't fixing that this year, it is a problem you have to target next year and beyond.


The Brewers should do what is best for development. Lopez has nothing left to prove at AA. The only thing more AA time would cause boredom leading to skill regression. Now between winter league and the WBC, he has pitched a lot of innings and putting him in the bullpen could allow his stuff to play up increasing his chances for initial success. But if you are suggesting the Brewers need to manipulate his service time, he isn’t even a top 10 prospect. They already control his rights to 2023. The Brewers need to focus on making him a successful MLB pitcher.


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#15

Posted: May 01, 2017, 5:36 AM Post
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There are four possibilities for how to handle Nelson: (1) let him figure things out in the MLB rotation, (2) make him figure things out in the AAA or AA rotation, (3) move him to the bullpen, (4) trade him for a similar player (Kyle Gibson?) and hope for a change of scenery effect.


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#16

Posted: May 01, 2017, 6:57 AM Post
Posts: 3529
Yep Call up Hader because CO Springs only regresses pitchers. Look at how long it took Lopez to get back to normal. He's back to a 4:30 bb/k in 5 starts. Woodruff is succeeding in AAA thus far, but like I said that place is regressing pitchers, the longer he remains, and when the hits/runs and walks start tallying up the further back we are pushing him. Hader likewise who's already doing poorly at giving up walks.

They are prospects with options. Calling them up today doesn't mean they are forever a ML pitcher never to see minors again. But, if they turn out to be real legit from day 1 Pitchers you're not wasting your time sending out Wily, Nelson, and Davies to be #5s on an offense that's scoring top 5 in all of Baseball. This isn't a minors system devoid of Pitching after those 3 names. There are only so many 40man spots to hold on to them all or we'll lose another Miguel Diaz because we want to trot out #5s and crap bullpen types before we start the clocks on more deserving.

If they look like a duck, walk like a duck, quack like duck, these ML Pitchers are ducks. 1month in is 1/6 of the expected Games started. With multiples seasons to go off of in performance with Wily and Nelson they aren't about to improve unless they come up with a better secondary pitch or location of Fastballs. Something they can't work on at the Major League level in games. Nelson is at an Ace Level his 1st time through an order. After that he's garbage. Wily isn't as elite the 1st time through, but he's still pretty close to garbage after that.

When you have a problem with your bullpen, and the starting pitching, with the answer directly in front of your eyes? How'd that turn out for Thornburg and Smith? What happened when we traded those two? Let's get Nelson and Wily to that level where they can actually return something vs. the nothing of value they possess now.


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#17

Posted: May 01, 2017, 7:10 AM Post
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When you have a problem with your bullpen, and the starting pitching, with the answer directly in front of your eyes? How'd that turn out for Thornburg and Smith? What happened when we traded those two?


They both got hurt.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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#18

Posted: May 01, 2017, 7:33 AM Post
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Since Garza has looked decent, I would have no problem sending Nelson to the minors when Guerra's back to see if he can figure things out. Davies will probably just have to figure things out at the MLB level.

While it's nice to see some positive things happening on this team, we still have to realize that this is still a year to figure out what we have for the future. The prospects will arrive, and some of the guys in the current rotation will be gone, but we don't want to act rashly. Nelson and Peralta have the potential to be good MLB pitchers, and the Brewers are trying to see if they can put it together before they send them packing. Both of them had some good starts to open the season, and have had a couple rough starts recently. I think they'll get a few months to prove themselves and if they struggle, they'll be replaced. Garza has even a shorter leash.

The guy I'm most interested in right now is Peralta. He was dominant in his first couple starts, but has gotten hit some in his last two. He doesn't have a ton of team control left, so with his upper-90's fastball, if he can be a decent pitcher for the next couple of months he could be a nice guy to trade in July. He just needs to stay on his game for a couple more months.


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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#19

Posted: May 01, 2017, 7:37 AM Post
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Brewers should:

1. Don't freak out as it's only May 1. Let the situation play out another month. You don't want to start arby clocks on guys like Hader and Woodruff quite yet.

Plus, it's still early. Zach Davies was absolutely shelled last April (only 3-4 starts), but came around and was out most consistent guy. Any of the struggling guys might rip off 4-5 good starts in May.

2. Come June 1 make an honest assessment of the staff. Consider shifting Nelson and/or Peralta to bullpen. Consider cutting ties with Garza. If Davies has a 7.00 ERA, get him to AAA to figure things out.

Look at the bullpen guys - Marinez, Torres, Milone - and make adjustments. I especially never liked Milone because it's not like he's a long term asset. At least Marinez is under control for five more years. And Torres at least performed quite well last year. But if they are awful, there's no point in keeping them around.

To fill bullpen slots, look at moving a starter (such as Peralta and/or Nelson) to the pen, or add Scahill or Cravy or whomever from AAA.

3. Look at the minors and bring up guys for the rotation - Hader, Woodruff and Lopez are probably the main candidates. See how they do.

4. While we are .500, I think - realistically - this is still a year of a lot of experimenting. Now is the time to do such things. I certainly wouldn't give up any decent prospects for a reliever or two. Or a starter. We are just not at that point.

5. Have fun.


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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#20

Posted: May 01, 2017, 7:54 AM Post
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Here is what I would do right now:

1. DFA Milone and bring up Cravy.

2. Send down Marinez and bring up Scahill.

The rest of the pitchers would at least be put on notice that their jobs at the major league level are on the line. If you don't produce, you are going to be sent down.

I would give the month to guys like Nelson, Peralta, Garza to either produce or they would be heading to the pen for guys like Hader, Woodruff, Lopez.

When Guerra comes back, whoever of the bunch that is not producing is either sent down or is the new long man of the pen.

If Wily doesn't have a good month, I look to see if there is anyone out there that wants to trade for him. If they don't, I begin his transition to being a great back of the bullpen option.


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