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Pitching staff adjustments?

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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#61

Posted: May 08, 2017, 1:39 PM Post
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I don't think Hader is particularly close to a call up, he hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire in AAA.


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#62

Posted: May 08, 2017, 1:40 PM Post
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Remember when everyone was calling for Tyler Wagner to be brought up...only to be traded soon afterwards...I could see that happening with several guys.


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#63

Posted: May 08, 2017, 2:01 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
Austin Tatious said:
If Williams can shake off the rust and get his control going, he could soar through the system


I've heard that for years and he just disappoints.


He disappoints? Because he got injured? He was on the fat track to make the Brewers roster before his TJ surgery. Since he's come back, he has been outstanding from winter league until today, other than one outing.

As for the others, yea Woodruff will be up mid-season if he keeps this up. Hader I'm still not convinced can be a starter in MLB, he has work to do. At least I'm still optimistic he can and will. Lopez.....I'm just not a fan. Maybe he can be a #5 starter, which is fine, but I have no illusions he'll be a huge part of the next Brewers playoff team.


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#64

Posted: May 08, 2017, 2:18 PM Post
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dacbrewers said:
Remember when everyone was calling for Tyler Wagner to be brought up...only to be traded soon afterwards...I could see that happening with several guys.


Melvin seemed to like "proven" talent over prospects (at least in the later years). Stearns seems like he'd rather trade away a "proven" guy with limited team control remaining and promote the prospects.

We just need a little more time to see if guys like Garza, Peralta and Anderson can pitch well enough until deadline that a team would be willing to give up something for them, or if some of our current guys pitch themselves out of the rotation.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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#65

Posted: May 08, 2017, 3:01 PM Post
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monty57 said:
dacbrewers said:
Remember when everyone was calling for Tyler Wagner to be brought up...only to be traded soon afterwards...I could see that happening with several guys.


Melvin seemed to like "proven" talent over prospects (at least in the later years). Stearns seems like he'd rather trade away a "proven" guy with limited team control remaining and promote the prospects.

We just need a little more time to see if guys like Garza, Peralta and Anderson can pitch well enough until deadline that a team would be willing to give up something for them, or if some of our current guys pitch themselves out of the rotation.


I don't think Melvin preferred proven talent over prospects, it was just a different time. Mark A had a "win now" goal, and Melvin was charged with making it happen.

I won't get into whether that was wise or not, just the way it was. Once the Brewers are ready to compete again, Stearns will look more like Melvin- trading prospects for vets.


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#66

Posted: May 08, 2017, 4:58 PM Post
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At some point Stearns is going to trade prospects for whatever position they need to fill. They have very few veteran assets left to sell off. So far the gm has had an easy job of selling and acquiring. The more important job will be trading prospects for key players needed to make a playoff run.


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#67

Posted: May 08, 2017, 6:07 PM Post
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statman0007 said:
With Woodruff, Lopez, and Hader getting close to deserving their shot in the big leagues, do we think that any of our current starters could make the switch to being a relief pitcher? Specifically thinking of Nelson and Peralta. It seems that their trade value is probably fairly minimal at this point (hard to believe a few short years ago people were talking about Nelson being the centerpiece in a potential trade for David Price) but they're young enough and talented enough that maybe they could reinvent themselves. Maybe the ability to add a couple MPH throwing an inning or two at a time could make them valuable contributors? I'd be happy if one of them turned into Tyler Thornburg 2.0


Nelsons numbers first time through a batting order compared to after is just screaming bullpen. That'd be Elite numbers right there and needs to be done. Maybe this move happens when Guerra returns.

Wasting away Woodruffs arm.


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#68

Posted: May 08, 2017, 6:09 PM Post
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DS has done a great job adding prospects at middle infield and outfielder to make future deals for pitching and other spots as needed. I hope Garza puts on a lights out performance and the crew can move him and think it Nelson spot that can be in jeopardy.


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#69

Posted: May 08, 2017, 6:15 PM Post
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brewcrewdue80 said:

Nelsons numbers first time through a batting order compared to after is just screaming bullpen. That'd be Elite numbers right there and needs to be done. Maybe this move happens when Guerra returns.

A while back in an online chat with Dave Cameron at Fangraphs, someone asked who he thinks would be a good candidate to be converted from a bad/mediocre starter to a good/excellent reliever. He answered Nelson.

I think (and this is going by memory, so I might be wrong), he's felt that Nelson doesn't have a good 3rd pitch. And his other offerings just aren't that good to overcome that. Combine that with mediocre control - says bullpen.


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#70

Posted: May 08, 2017, 7:41 PM Post
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Converting Wily Peralta would be kind of pointless at this point. He already went through arby once and is expnsive. Make him a reliever and you pretty much are non tendering him at years end.

Jimmy Nelson would be a more interesting case.


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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#71

Posted: May 09, 2017, 12:41 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
Converting Wily Peralta would be kind of pointless at this point. He already went through arby once and is expnsive. Make him a reliever and you pretty much are non tendering him at years end.

Jimmy Nelson would be a more interesting case.


I agree that with Peralta, it's starter or nothing. He had back-to-back subpar outings (4IP, 6ER vs StL & 5IP, 4 ER vs Cin). Other than that, he's been decent. I think that if he continues pitching like he has been so far this year, following up on his good second half of last season, he has value. If we need the spot for prospects, someone would trade for him. If we think we'll need him in future rotations, he still has two arby seasons remaining (he is in year two, but has four years of arby).

Nelson should get sent down to the minors when Guerra's ready. Let him work on things as a starter, and if he can't figure it out, convert him to a reliever down there.

So, Guerra comes back, Nelson goes down. At the deadline, Garza, Feliz, and Peralta are all shopped around. Unless Nelson is really lighting it up as a starter, Woodruff and Lopez take the open spots when Garza and Peralta are traded, giving them some MLB experience going into 2018, where we will hopefully have a more talented rotation with Guerra, Anderson, Woodruff, Lopez, Hader, and more talent pushing their way up through the minors.

Of course, if we're still in the division and WC races in late July, all that might change. But that would probably mean that our current pitching was getting better and/or some of the prospects are already up.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#72

Posted: May 09, 2017, 1:06 PM Post
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monty57 said:
MrTPlush said:
Converting Wily Peralta would be kind of pointless at this point. He already went through arby once and is expnsive. Make him a reliever and you pretty much are non tendering him at years end.

Jimmy Nelson would be a more interesting case.


Nelson should get sent down to the minors when Guerra's ready. Let him work on things as a starter, and if he can't figure it out, convert him to a reliever down there.

So, Guerra comes back, Nelson goes down. At the deadline, Garza, Feliz, and Peralta are all shopped around. Unless Nelson is really lighting it up as a starter, Woodruff and Lopez take the open spots when Garza and Peralta are traded, giving them some MLB experience going into 2018, where we will hopefully have a more talented rotation with Guerra, Anderson, Woodruff, Lopez, Hader, and more talent pushing their way up through the minors.

Of course, if we're still in the division and WC races in late July, all that might change. But that would probably mean that our current pitching was getting better and/or some of the prospects are already up.


I pretty much agree with this. To me, it doesn't matter much if Nelson or Anderson is sent down temporarily or put in the bullpen. But Nelson really could be a nice BP arm if they go that route, and he embraces it.

Just a couple things in bold, I would add Anderson (30) and Knebel as guys they will shopping. Also, don't forget about Davies as part of the 2018 rotation.


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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#73

Posted: May 09, 2017, 1:17 PM Post
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I think Stearns should still be in "listen to all offers" mode.

In terms of guys we could actually GET offers for, I'd like Stearns to be looking to move Garza, Feliz, and Peralta. Anderson too if the price is right (wouldn't surprise me if we could get a nice return for him if he keeps pitching well).

Realistically, we're going to want to open up spots in the rotation over the next 2 years for Woodruff, Hader, Ortiz, and Lopez to get extended tryouts at an absolute minimum. It would be nice for Espino, Burgos, and Wilkerson to get a look as well. I think we're hitting the point where we're all losing patience at the below average rotation that's made all the more frustrating because they have so much potential to be good (Nelson and Peralta in particular).

If I were Stearns, my goal for 2nd half of 2017 would be to see if we potentially have the pieces to make a WC run next year. As far as hitting goes, I think we might already be there, but the rotation and bullpen could both use upgrades and we definitely have guys at AAA who could potentially help in both those areas.

I have faith that Stearns has a plan for all this stuff. Nelson to the pen does seem like a great idea.


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#74

Posted: May 09, 2017, 2:23 PM Post
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If my memory serves me well, Nelson always has 1st and 2nd inning problems. He takes a while to settle into a rhythm. Don't see him in the BP.


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#75

Posted: May 09, 2017, 2:30 PM Post
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Peralta has no trade value imo, 3 straight years of a 4.80+ ERA is not getting anything. The only way to salvage any value from him is to turn him into a bullpen guy. I strongly feel Peralta is pitching for his starting career these next few starts. If he stinks he will be out of the rotation when Junior comes back and he will never see it again. He just can't get lefties out. It is bullpen or end of career for him unless he figures out his curve or change up as a meaningful pitch.

What they should have done last year was put him in the minors and tell him he wasn't getting another shot until he has a change up. Make him throw it 20-30% of the time until he gets the hang of it. There was no reason to think he was going to improve without a change in pitch selection. He is at least showing a change and a curve this year but both are at 5%, they need to be a bigger part of the game especially against lefties.


Last edited by Ennder on May 09, 2017, 2:44 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#76

Posted: May 09, 2017, 2:39 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
Converting Wily Peralta would be kind of pointless at this point. He already went through arby once and is expnsive. Make him a reliever and you pretty much are non tendering him at years end.

Jimmy Nelson would be a more interesting case.


I agree that Wily would be too expensive as a middle reliever, but what if he was a closer? Teams pay closers well. Peralta moves to the pen and gets comfortable in June, and then takes over the closer rolls after Feliz is dealt.

2 months of closing seemed to add a lot of value to Thornburg, I think it could make Peralta a somewhat of a valued trade peice too. I do think Wily would be a lights out reliever.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"88.6% of all statistics are made up right there on the spot" Todd Snider

-Posted by the fan formerly known as X ellence. David Stearns has brought me back..


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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#77

Posted: May 09, 2017, 2:40 PM Post
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newrivervalley said:
If my memory serves me well, Nelson always has 1st and 2nd inning problems. He takes a while to settle into a rhythm. Don't see him in the BP.



Opponents 1st PA vs. Nelson (OPS) is .682
Opponents 2nd PA vs. Nelson (OPS) is .809
Opponents 3rd PA vs. Nelson (OPS) is .740


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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#78

Posted: May 09, 2017, 3:08 PM Post
Posts: 5667
Location: Kenosha, WI
Never Outhustled said:
MrTPlush said:
Converting Wily Peralta would be kind of pointless at this point. He already went through arby once and is expnsive. Make him a reliever and you pretty much are non tendering him at years end.

Jimmy Nelson would be a more interesting case.


I agree that Wily would be too expensive as a middle reliever, but what if he was a closer? Teams pay closers well. Peralta moves to the pen and gets comfortable in June, and then takes over the closer rolls after Feliz is dealt.

2 months of closing seemed to add a lot of value to Thornburg, I think it could make Peralta a somewhat of a valued trade peice too. I do think Wily would be a lights out reliever.


Sure I guess...I don't really think he has the stuff to be that good in relief though. Maybe just relieving he finds a way to add velocity or something, but as it stands I wouldn't be too optimistic. Hard to predict it though.


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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#79

Posted: May 09, 2017, 3:09 PM Post
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Never Outhustled said:
MrTPlush said:
Converting Wily Peralta would be kind of pointless at this point. He already went through arby once and is expnsive. Make him a reliever and you pretty much are non tendering him at years end.

Jimmy Nelson would be a more interesting case.


I agree that Wily would be too expensive as a middle reliever, but what if he was a closer? Teams pay closers well. Peralta moves to the pen and gets comfortable in June, and then takes over the closer rolls after Feliz is dealt.

2 months of closing seemed to add a lot of value to Thornburg, I think it could make Peralta a somewhat of a valued trade peice too. I do think Wily would be a lights out reliever.


I've always thought Wily would be a good closer option but it never made sense to give him that audition given our options the last few years. Once Feliz is dealt I wouldn't hate the thought..


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Offline  Re: Pitching staff adjustments?
#80

Posted: May 09, 2017, 8:45 PM Post
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Peralta is seeming more and more like just a non tender candidate at the end of the year if he even makes it that long on the team. There's no way he makes it to the end of the year in the rotation given how he's been pitching lately.

He was back to his old ways tonight. Overthrowing everything and falling way off the mound with every pitch.


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