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Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"

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Online  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#61

Posted: August 03, 2017, 8:52 AM Post
Posts: 2909
Boomer5 said:
The trade deadline was an interesting barometer. Either DS didn't think the MLB team he put together was worth helping what he believed was a futile effort to catch the Cubs, or the prospects he acquired not named Brinson aren't valuable enough to generate much interest.


Or, Stearns values the prospects we have higher than what we could have gotten back for them

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Online  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#62

Posted: August 03, 2017, 9:38 AM Post
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Boomer5 said:
The Rebuild will be complete when the young guys we acquired become elite major leaguers



I don't know if Stearns will ever view us as being in any particular stage (i.e. rebuild, "win now") or as anything to ever be "complete."

I think that as long as Stearns is GM and Attanasio trusts him, we will always continue to look for ways to infuse talent into the system at all levels. We added MLB pieces when we have not been expected to win at the MLB level, and we will trade away guys from the MLB roster when we are expected to win. Stearns seems to be very "big picture," so he will continue to try to add value to the entire franchise, not just the current MLB team. No one is perfect, but I'm kind of fascinated by how Stearns works.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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Offline  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#63

Posted: August 03, 2017, 10:10 AM Post
Posts: 381
monty57 said:
Boomer5 said:
The Rebuild will be complete when the young guys we acquired become elite major leaguers



I don't know if Stearns will ever view us as being in any particular stage (i.e. rebuild, "win now") or as anything to ever be "complete."

I think that as long as Stearns is GM and Attanasio trusts him, we will always continue to look for ways to infuse talent into the system at all levels. We added MLB pieces when we have not been expected to win at the MLB level, and we will trade away guys from the MLB roster when we are expected to win. Stearns seems to be very "big picture," so he will continue to try to add value to the entire franchise, not just the current MLB team. No one is perfect, but I'm kind of fascinated by how Stearns works.


This.

I stand by the idea that the flurry of relief pitching trades is part of this. There was an opportunity to move guys at high prices, and Stearns took it. I get that it left the bullpen pretty bare, but thinking of the great run of talent he got for Thornburg, Smith, and Jeffress is just crazy. And I don't think it's crazy to think that those three trades are one gigantic reason why the relief market was down this year.

If that exemplifies what we're in for moving forward, I'm pretty thrilled. Opportunistic seems like the right word. Obviously, I hope the Brewers catch the Cubs by winning about 15 in a row, but I'm looking forward to this offseason. I think it will be one where we find out a lot about the plan to sustainably compete near- and long-term. DS is a fun GM to watch.


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Offline  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#64

Posted: August 03, 2017, 12:03 PM Post
Posts: 215
monty57 said:
Boomer5 said:
The Rebuild will be complete when the young guys we acquired become elite major leaguers



I don't know if Stearns will ever view us as being in any particular stage (i.e. rebuild, "win now") or as anything to ever be "complete."

I think that as long as Stearns is GM and Attanasio trusts him, we will always continue to look for ways to infuse talent into the system at all levels. We added MLB pieces when we have not been expected to win at the MLB level, and we will trade away guys from the MLB roster when we are expected to win. Stearns seems to be very "big picture," so he will continue to try to add value to the entire franchise, not just the current MLB team. No one is perfect, but I'm kind of fascinated by how Stearns works.


I also believe that this is what Stearns will try to do, at least I certainly hope so as I think that's the right approach to take for a chance at sustained success, as opposed to the rebuilding->win now cycle.


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Offline  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#65

Posted: August 04, 2017, 6:09 AM Post
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Boomer5 said:

The trade deadline was an interesting barometer. Either DS didn't think the MLB team he put together was worth helping what he believed was a futile effort to catch the Cubs, or the prospects he acquired not named Brinson aren't valuable enough to generate much interest.


It has to be really hard for you as a fan with this completely glass half empty approach you have to the franchise. Stearns didn't want to give up pieces he finds highly valuable for a small increase in our chances to win a world series. That doesn't mean our prospects all stink and it doesn't mean he thinks our odds of catching the Cubs are futile. Quintana and Gray are the big controllable pieces that were moved and neither of them look like that big of upgrades over what we already have given their peripherals, health history etc. We easily could still trade for a Kinsler or Verlander type this month if things look more favorable.


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Online  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#66

Posted: August 04, 2017, 7:22 AM Post
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Ennder said:
Boomer5 said:

The trade deadline was an interesting barometer. Either DS didn't think the MLB team he put together was worth helping what he believed was a futile effort to catch the Cubs, or the prospects he acquired not named Brinson aren't valuable enough to generate much interest.


It has to be really hard for you as a fan with this completely glass half empty approach you have to the franchise. Stearns didn't want to give up pieces he finds highly valuable for a small increase in our chances to win a world series. That doesn't mean our prospects all stink and it doesn't mean he thinks our odds of catching the Cubs are futile. Quintana and Gray are the big controllable pieces that were moved and neither of them look like that big of upgrades over what we already have given their peripherals, health history etc. We easily could still trade for a Kinsler or Verlander type this month if things look more favorable.


Not to mention that I keep hearing how relievers' value is so much greater in "today's game," even to the extent that some believe that Hader will be more valuable if he remains a reliever than if he joins the rotation, but people say we made no moves when we picked up one of the better closers in the game this year to be Knebel's setup guy. We now have a pretty dominant late relief crew. We just need our offense to remember that they're actually pretty good and then we have a shot at taking the division.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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Offline  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#67

Posted: August 04, 2017, 7:46 AM Post
Posts: 233
Location: Milwaukee
Boomer5 said:
Clark, Ray, Diaz, Bickford, Dubon, Nottingham do not look like guys who will be much at the MLB level
but it's still early.

The trade deadline was an interesting barometer. Either DS didn't think the MLB team he put together was worth helping what he believed was a futile effort to catch the Cubs, or the prospects he acquired not named Brinson aren't valuable enough to generate much interest.

First part - why?

Second part - why are those the only two options that make sense?


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Offline  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#68

Posted: August 04, 2017, 8:14 AM Post
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Getting back to the original topic, the next step of the winning formula is to use this offseason to move some guys from positions of depth. There won't be a roster crunch after this offseason, but there will be next offseason.

I've posted before about the ridiculous OF depth in the system, particularly CF (Broxton, Brinson, Phillips, T. Clark, Ray, Z. Clark, and to a lesser extent Stokes, T. Taylor, and Cordell was a CF until the Brewers acquired him; then add in corner OFs Braun and Santana). Maybe not this past trade deadline, but this offseason they need to figure out a way to parlay some of that into some upgrades.

The Brewers don't have any glaring weaknesses that don't have upper-level prospects ready to step in. Debate Villar, but you have Dubon at AAA, and then there is Hader, Woodruff, and in a year or so Ortiz and Burnes to shore up SP. But I do think they should take a few of those prospects and package them with current players to upgrade at positions (2B, SP, RP).

What I think will happen is that Stearns will look to move some guys who have some value but not necessarily room on this team (Broxton, Garza, Jungmann, Wilkerson). Recycle those guys for some A-ball talent that doesn't need to be protected for a couple of years, or package them with other players for upgrades. Those guys aren't stars, but they are productive players at cheap or league minimum salaries, and that has value in the market.


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Online  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#69

Posted: August 04, 2017, 9:00 AM Post
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I agree, LouisEly, although I think Broxton's value to some extent is yet to be determined and I think that's why he's going to be our starting CF the rest of this year. He could go on one of his hot streaks, ending the season with an OPS over .800 with a bunch of HR and SB. If that's the case, he could net a good return this offseason. Or, he could be cold, ending with a batting average around .200 and an OPS in the low .700s, in which case he would have significantly lower value to a rebuild team looking at his potential. Either way, I think he will be traded because of our "logjam." Next year will be Braun, Brinson, Santana with Phillips either our 4th OF or sitting in AAA waiting for an injury.

Garza is another question mark. We could trade him this offseason and get an okay return for him if he continues to pitch at the level he has this year (and if he can get/stay healthy). That's the same reason we may decide to hold onto him for another year, as he's a solid mid-rotation starter who could help us next year. Ideally, we'll have enough confidence in our other guys to be able to trade away Garza for youth, so it will be interesting to see which way we go.

As you mentioned with guys like Jungmann and Wilkerson, I think you're right. The decent players who don't have a clear shot with the Brewers but could play elsewhere will probably be used in trades. Hopefully we can always keep a strong farm, so this will always be the case. Plant the seeds, tend the crops, keep the cream of the crop for yourself and sell off the rest of the yield for help elsewhere.


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Offline  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#70

Posted: August 04, 2017, 9:07 AM Post
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Ennder said:

Quintana and Gray are the big controllable pieces that were moved and neither of them look like that big of upgrades over what we already have given their peripherals, health history etc. .


Yup.

People are still talking about trading for a starter, or that we didn't trade for a starter, and this is the part that people are overlooking. Sonny Gray just isn't that much better (if at all) than how our guys are performing *right now*. Nelson and Anderson are pitching well (well....... Anderson was), Suter is pitching well, and his peripherals support that he's not just faking it. Garza is pitching well. Davies is pitching well. Starter is the one spot on the team where it just didn't make sense to give up assets to get things that we already had. (Starting pitching)

The Brewers (like every team!) have a finite number of prospects and assets, and when they start dealing from those positions of strength to get things they don't really need at this moment in time (starting pitching), then when they need a 2B, or a few relievers, or a starter next year, or a catcher, or SOMETHING, those in demand assets they have now will be something they wish they didn't burn up to get a pitcher they didn't need.


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Offline  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#71

Posted: August 07, 2017, 7:51 PM Post
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Next step seems to be contracts for Shaw, Nelson. Only 3B depth in system is de Jesus.


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Offline  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#72

Posted: August 07, 2017, 7:57 PM Post
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BillMilton said:
Next step seems to be contracts for Shaw, Nelson. Only 3B depth in system is de Jesus.


Isn't Jacob Gatewood a 3B?

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Winning formula for completing "The Rebuild"
#73

Posted: August 07, 2017, 7:59 PM Post
Posts: 9
Just to AA today. Played SS, 3B, lately 1B.


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