LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  [ 67 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today [Or would have but for his hamstring]; Woodruff optioned back to AAA after rehab

Author Message
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#21

Posted: June 13, 2017, 10:22 AM Post
Posts: 5706
Outlander said:
Suter was named the 26th man but they can just as easily send down Woodruff and keep Suter. They just have to keep Suter for both games today.


Keep in mind, they already have 8 in the pen NOT including Woodruff or Suter. And Garza will be coming back. So, for example, if they wanted to keep Woodruff in the pen, they will need to DFA two guys currently in the pen.

I have a feeling they will want to keep Woodruff stretched out, but you never know.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#22

Posted: June 13, 2017, 10:42 AM Post
Posts: 6227
Location: Kenosha, WI
In my opinion Brandon Woodruff is not going to the pen no matter how terrible it may be. Woodruff is likely the Brewers go to guy if a starter goes down long term. They are going to want to keep him stretched out and continue to work as a starter. Hader is in the pen because he has little control. Woodruff has shown adequate control even having to pitch in Colorado. Hader wasn't converted to the bullpen just because we needed help there. It was much more than that. Ever since Hader went to the pen people have been wondering why we won't just do the same to Woodruff. Woodruff has looked much more like a starter than Hader. That is why he isn't in the pen and likely won't be.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#23

Posted: June 13, 2017, 11:00 AM Post
Posts: 9867
Yeah, I don't think Woodruff is going to the pen. If he has a great debut he'll be tough to send back down right now though. It'd be a good time to try to trade Garza while he still has some of his early season value, but coming off an injury isn't usually the best time for that. It's hard to see anyone else in the rotation getting traded now, but you never know.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#24

Posted: June 13, 2017, 11:24 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 784
adambr2 said:
Yeah, I don't think Woodruff is going to the pen. If he has a great debut he'll be tough to send back down right now though. It'd be a good time to try to trade Garza while he still has some of his early season value, but coming off an injury isn't usually the best time for that. It's hard to see anyone else in the rotation getting traded now, but you never know.


I'd love for Garza to get traded but I highly highly doubt it happens.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#25

Posted: June 13, 2017, 11:30 AM Post
Posts: 10637
adambr2 said:
Yeah, I don't think Woodruff is going to the pen. If he has a great debut he'll be tough to send back down right now though. It'd be a good time to try to trade Garza while he still has some of his early season value, but coming off an injury isn't usually the best time for that. It's hard to see anyone else in the rotation getting traded now, but you never know.


If Woodruff is really good, I could see them keeping Garza on the DL a bit longer so he'll get another start. Scahill being DFA'd does insure the Hader sticks around in the pen even after Garza is activated though and hopefully means Torres is kept away from high leverage situations for a while.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#26

Posted: June 13, 2017, 11:33 AM Post
Posts: 1205
MoreTrife said:
adambr2 said:
Yeah, I don't think Woodruff is going to the pen. If he has a great debut he'll be tough to send back down right now though. It'd be a good time to try to trade Garza while he still has some of his early season value, but coming off an injury isn't usually the best time for that. It's hard to see anyone else in the rotation getting traded now, but you never know.


I'd love for Garza to get traded but I highly highly doubt it happens.


I think with Garza would have to pitch at least two good games before he would establish whatever value again (even if only cash relief). If I was a contending team, you are going to want to make sure with him that he is really not hampered at all by injury.

But if he can show he is doing well, he doesn't have much mileage on the arm this season, so one could make the case he won't wear down (barring further injury of something).


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#27

Posted: June 13, 2017, 11:40 AM Post
Posts: 1205
Ennder said:
Scahill has been just putrid this year, glad he is gone. Don't let the lucky ERA fool you. Almost double the walks as he has strike outs, 90% zone contact rate. This is a guy who can't strike people out and is very hittable. He is 30 years old and hasn't shown a stat line worth owning since 2014 in AAA.


His walks aren't good, but no worse than the rest of the bad pen. His whip is decent for our pen. I still would have dfa'd Drake, Feliz, and Peralta before Scahill - but would not consider it to be a bid deal of difference.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#28

Posted: June 13, 2017, 11:41 AM Post
Posts: 4000
JohnBriggs12 said:
Scahill came into tie games twice and surrendered the go ahead runs. All of the rest of the guys in the pen had similar results or worse. Agree that Scahill didn't distinguish himself but he's far from alone. Would he have shut down the Dodgers in the game Torres blew up? He didn't get the chance. His departure will have little effect positive or negative because Counsell never used him as anything other than the last resort.


Which shows how they viewed him compared to others. As his 6.05 FIP shows, he was not good.
Shouldn't be a surprise he is the first to go. I doubt he will be the last.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#29

Posted: June 13, 2017, 11:42 AM Post
Posts: 662
MoreTrife said:
Happy about woodruff but whoever called the LIFO approach from Stearns was spot on. Scahill was at least 3rd behind Peralta, Feliz and even Torres.

That was me and I am starting to figure out Stearns reasoning. Since Peralta isn't a Stearns guy, I could see him being gone sooner than later this year unless he has a miracle turnaround.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#30

Posted: June 13, 2017, 11:50 AM Post
Posts: 9867
dacbrewers said:
MoreTrife said:
Happy about woodruff but whoever called the LIFO approach from Stearns was spot on. Scahill was at least 3rd behind Peralta, Feliz and even Torres.

That was me and I am starting to figure out Stearns reasoning. Since Peralta isn't a Stearns guy, I could see him being gone sooner than later this year unless he has a miracle turnaround.


Milone, Marinez and Scahill were 'Stearns guys' just as much as Feliz, Torres, Hughes and Drake are, so I don't think there's anything to this theory.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#31

Posted: June 13, 2017, 11:57 AM Post
Posts: 662
One thing that really confuses me is that the #1 Pitching prospect we have...goes to pen without getting a start but they will let Woodruff start a game. Way to show some confidence in Hader...not.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#32

Posted: June 13, 2017, 12:03 PM Post
Posts: 9867
And Woodruff's MLB debut ends before it starts.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#33

Posted: June 13, 2017, 12:08 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 74
Location: United States
adambr2 said:
And Woodruff's MLB debut ends before it starts.

Scratched with right hamstring tightness. Suter to start.

This guy threw at his own son in a father son game


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#34

Posted: June 13, 2017, 12:11 PM Post
Posts: 2197
Unbelievable, why can't we have nice things.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#35

Posted: June 13, 2017, 12:12 PM Post
Posts: 6227
Location: Kenosha, WI
dacbrewers said:
One thing that really confuses me is that the #1 Pitching prospect we have...goes to pen without getting a start but they will let Woodruff start a game. Way to show some confidence in Hader...not.


A GM doesn't care about prospect rankings. Josh Hader has sucked this year and has shown little control. He is a big boy and needs to prove he actually deserves a shot. Brandon Woodruff plays in the same conditions and has been way better. Hader didn't deserve to get a start.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#36

Posted: June 13, 2017, 12:44 PM Post
Posts: 662
Hader was specifically told to work on various pitches at colorado springs, you can take his stats and throw them out the window.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#37

Posted: June 13, 2017, 12:53 PM Post
Posts: 78
dacbrewers said:
Hader was specifically told to work on various pitches at colorado springs, you can take his stats and throw them out the window.


Have you watched him pitch this year??.. He has been struggling to control all his pitches.. So walks and Whip stats should be thrown out the window because he can't control his fastball or his slider? Those stats represent his inconsistent control, hence why he is going to the pen(for now). and don't tell me its all about CS.. he hasn't controlled either home or away. He is dealing with AAA hitters now, and not everyone is chasing his slider outside the zone like they were in AA.. These inconsistencies along with only having 2 pitches(he rarely throws his change-up) is a concern for a guy people think is going to be an TOR starting pitcher.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#38

Posted: June 13, 2017, 1:24 PM Post
Posts: 6227
Location: Kenosha, WI
dacbrewers said:
Hader was specifically told to work on various pitches at colorado springs, you can take his stats and throw them out the window.


I have watched him and he has not located his pitches well. Every time I watched him he couldn't locate any of his pitches, but notably his off speed stuff. He constantly had to use his fastball to just blow past hitters. Even his best games were masked by the fact AAA hitters couldn't hit his fastball. Won't work consistently at the MLB level and definitely not as a starter.

You can take everything and throw it out the window if you want. Clearly the Brewers don't like Hader as a starter as much as Woodruff this year. The Brewers wouldn't punish Hader for working on pitches so it is more than that. I also don't believe he was ever working on pitches that heavily in Colorado. If that was the case they would promote him to the MLB roster where he can't do that.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#39

Posted: June 13, 2017, 2:15 PM Post
Posts: 223
Location: Milwaukee
People keep harping on "Woodruff had to pitch in the same environment". Great. I'll turn that around and ask you why does Suter constantly have success in CS and outperform Woodruff when his skill set and ceiling don't come close to rivaling Woodruff's? Because he's a different pitcher - he's fastball/change mixing in a curve. CS doesn't affect his skill set. Woodruff is a different pitcher than Hader. He's mainly fastball and mixes in his secondary pitches, which don't move anywhere near as much as Hader's. Woodruff isn't focusing on developing a pitch whereas Hader was focusing on developing his changeup. And when your release point is constantly changing between outings because of your huge movement it's going to result in some terrible outings because your release point for that pitch just isn't affected, it then snowballs to your other pitches and your mechanics overall. It's partly why his numbers last year are better than this year as he wasn't focusing on developing a pitch - and look at this game logs instead of painting with a broad brush.

Hader
2014 - 3.3 BB9 in 103ip in A+ then threw 20ip in AA with 7 BB9
2015 - 3.0 BB9 in 104ip in AA then threw 16ip in AZFL with 3.9 BB9
2016 - 3.0 BB9 in 57ip in AA then CS happened

How exactly does one come to the conclusion that Hader can't throw strikes to save his life when the past 3yrs and 264 innings prove his BB9 is 3.1? Then in the same breathe you turn around and complain what a dumping ground CS is. You can't have it both ways. Of course Hader can still improve his control from where he was prior to AAA but speaking as if he's Nuke Laloosh (pre-Susan Sarandon) is just absurd and there's ZERO evidence to back it up.

He was the #1 LHP and one of the best overall rotation arms coming into this season and some of you think he's permanently in the pen for his future because he has zero control and doesn't "deserve" a chance to start solely because he had FOUR bad starts this year in AAA??? MY....OH...MY.

His other 6 starts he's combined for 33ip, 22h, 11er, 19bb, 31k, 3.00 ERA, 6.0 H9, 5.18 BB9, 8.45 K9. I didn't include his final 2 starts because he was limited to 2ip otherwise these numbers would look even better. His BB issues have clearly been explained and that aside how exactly has he been awful in AAA? 4 of Woodruff's last 6 starts have been garbage (5 on the season in 12 starts) but because his BB9 is lower that means that he deserves a shot to start and Hader doesn't? That means that Woodruff is a starter moving forward and Hader is relegated to the pen?

You'll see Hader in the rotation next year. Whether he ever ends up in the pen long-term is up to a combination of his performance or personal decision to move there. But he'll absolutely be given every opportunity to start and for obvious reasons. Woodruff can also sit in the Brewers pen this year just like Hader and get plenty of innings thrown while spot starting (I'd have Woodruff spot start because Hader is lefty and it benefits the team to have that as the pen option in high leverage situations). If a starter is traded and/or the Brewers have an outside chance of a playoff spot then you'll see them in the rotation gaining experience there heading into next season. Now, Stearns could also pick someone else up off waivers then option Woodruff back down if they want him to start there then come back up to spot start or if there's injury. Drake is another guy that can easily be gone. The other pen arms are more talented regardless of performance.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Scahill DFA, Woodruff Promoted, Starts Game 1 Today
#40

Posted: June 13, 2017, 2:21 PM Post
Posts: 223
Location: Milwaukee
MrTPlush said:
dacbrewers said:
Hader was specifically told to work on various pitches at colorado springs, you can take his stats and throw them out the window.


I have watched him and he has not located his pitches well. Every time I watched him he couldn't locate any of his pitches, but notably his off speed stuff. He constantly had to use his fastball to just blow past hitters. Even his best games were masked by the fact AAA hitters couldn't hit his fastball. Won't work consistently at the MLB level and definitely not as a starter.

You can take everything and throw it out the window if you want. Clearly the Brewers don't like Hader as a starter as much as Woodruff this year. The Brewers wouldn't punish Hader for working on pitches so it is more than that. I also don't believe he was ever working on pitches that heavily in Colorado. If that was the case they would promote him to the MLB roster where he can't do that.

Release point. Release Point. Release point. It's this simple. CS is an awful environment for him and he's basically said so prior to this season. Respectfully, the Brewers might (which you don't know for fact) view Woodruff as a better starter this year but who cares. We are talking about the future. Hader fills an excellent role for the MLB team this year in the pen. And yes, it was publicly written or verbally stated in an interview somewhere that Hader was working on his change this year. Having Hader skip AAA and sit in the pen was being floated around by folks outside the Brewers org before this year because of how bad CS is. The Brewers aren't "punishing" Hader for putting him in their pen. They don't have any lefties. CS sucks for his skill set. He can step in and be an immediate upgrade over almost every pen arm. It's beyond logical.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  [ 67 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AKCheesehead, BuckyBrewer61, gregmag, shanedog19, sobomp3, Warning Track Power and 21 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test