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When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?

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Offline  When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#1

Posted: July 03, 2017, 5:38 PM Post
Posts: 10792
For the past month and a half, Arcia's been the best hitter in the lineup yet he's still batting 8th? That's more a trend than a hot streak. Wouldn't they want their best hitter getting extra AB's batting higher up?


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#2

Posted: July 03, 2017, 5:42 PM Post
Posts: 12301
No, a month and a half is not a trend.

Fan is short for fanatic.
I blame Wang.


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Offline  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#3

Posted: July 03, 2017, 5:45 PM Post
Posts: 10792
logan82 said:
No, a month and a half is not a trend.


So you'd leave your hottest hitter in the 8th spot? Even if you take his entire season's work as the baseline, he belongs near the top, not the bottom.


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Offline  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#4

Posted: July 03, 2017, 6:41 PM Post
Posts: 19
Not sure you move him. He seems pretty comfortable hitting in the 8th spot. When things are going well for him why change it up? Although I am surprised teams are pitching to him as much as they are considering the pitcher is right behind him.


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Offline  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#5

Posted: July 03, 2017, 7:15 PM Post
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I'd go back and forth on this. On the one hand, clearly the #8 spot is working well for him, and also we kind of already have a good thing going with our top of the order (Sogard, Thames, Braun, Shaw, Santana, or replace Thames with Aguilar). If you're moving up Arcia, it's going to be to the #1 or #2 spots, and honestly probably not even the #2 spot since if you do that, you're going to have to bat Thames behind Braun and I don't think that's going to be the best thing for our lineup right now until Thames learns to stand on his own two feet without Braun's support, whereas Arcia clearly can get it done from lower in the order.

So, for me, if you're moving Arcia up it's to bat 1st, but you've already got about the best leadoff hitter in the league in terms of OBP with Sogard, so there's no way I want to move him out of there.

A good case could be made for letting Arcia bat 9th instead of 8th, and Arcia should definitely be batting leadoff if Sogard has the day off over Villar, but for now I just don't think there's a place to move him that's advantageous enough to take him out of the spot that's working so well for him. You could move up to 6th, but that doesn't seem beneficial enough to justify a move.


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Offline  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#6

Posted: July 03, 2017, 7:57 PM Post
Posts: 282
Location: Milwaukee
JohnBriggs12 said:
logan82 said:
No, a month and a half is not a trend.


So you'd leave your hottest hitter in the 8th spot? Even if you take his entire season's work as the baseline, he belongs near the top, not the bottom.

Yes. I'd absolutely leave him at the bottom. He's 22yrs old. It's his first full season. He should be at the bottom the entire year to get him acclimated and comfortable - it's a spot where there's little pressure and it allows him to work on things as there will be adjustments made throughout the entire year.

Arcia's been leading the league in hitting since May 18 and since then Sogard has a 417 OBP, Thames 310, Shaw 389, Santana 375, Aguilar 361, Perez 264. Braun has been back 7 games now and he's the best hitter on the team. It's not like the top has been struggling to get on base since Arcia started killing it. He also helps out pushing the order forward with the pitcher behind him.


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#7

Posted: July 03, 2017, 8:05 PM Post
Posts: 4039
JohnBriggs12 said:
logan82 said:
No, a month and a half is not a trend.


So you'd leave your hottest hitter in the 8th spot? Even if you take his entire season's work as the baseline, he belongs near the top, not the bottom.


If you move players around based on the hottest hand you have a continually changing order. I am not a fan of that. You will always be setting your order on what someone did over a short period of time as opposed to a longer period of time. I not a fan of that.
Overall there is relatively no difference between hitting 8th, 3rd, leadoff or any other position. The major difference seems to be more about prestige or respect than anything else. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the respect angle may be part of what you are getting at. If that is the case keep in mind he is a 22 year old rookie. A month or two of being a little better than someone a few slots higher in the batting order just isn't enough to make me think there is any value is the move. Dude is good where he is and there is no reason what so ever to change what is working.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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#8

Posted: July 03, 2017, 8:28 PM Post
Posts: 976
Maybe moving him up to 7th...... getting him some more at bats with men on base seems smart. If he can do what he is doing over the next month, 2nd could be his spot.


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#9

Posted: July 03, 2017, 8:46 PM Post
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I'll trust Counsell's judgment. Plenty of people got after him a season ago on how he handled Santana/Broxton. Those two are flourishing. Just let the man do his job. Over analyzing just to have something to discuss.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#10

Posted: July 03, 2017, 8:58 PM Post
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The 8 spot in front of the pitcher is one of the hardest spots to bat in. Many batters have quite a bit of difficulty dealing with the expanded zone that comes with the spot before the pitcher creating a black hole at the bottom of the lineup. Arcia is thriving there right now. Let's move him!


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#11

Posted: July 03, 2017, 9:02 PM Post
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Location: Kenosha, WI
I would move him up no doubt and I am not one to move people around much due to production. He was on fire the last week hitting over .500 and OPS'd 1.500. After taking out the 3 HRs(driving in himself) he had one RBI and one run scored. He might as well be hitting .150 at that rate. His most valuable asset right now during his hot streak is probably clearing the pitchers spot when he bats. His strikeout rate has plummetted(just one K in last week) and is hitting .375 in his last 28 days.

Move the dude up in the order. I don't care if he is 22 or 32. If Eric Sogard is at the top of the order because he is flaming hot so should Orlando Arcia. If he magically flops because we moved him in the order no harm done because any value in the #8 spot is often pretty wasteful. I am sorry, but the fact he is still hitting #8 is a bit shocking. I understand he is young and him mashing makes you reluctant to make any type of change, but holy cow how long do you waste away that production in the #8 spot?

Put on your big boy pants Arcia.


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Offline  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#12

Posted: July 03, 2017, 9:18 PM Post
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lynchp said:
Not sure you move him. He seems pretty comfortable hitting in the 8th spot. When things are going well for him why change it up? Although I am surprised teams are pitching to him as much as they are considering the pitcher is right behind him.


Because if a guy can hit, he can hit anywhere and it's more valuable to have better hitters have more plate appearances than lesser hitters. When you hit ahead of the pitcher and behind guys that don't get on all the much, your hitting doesn't produce as many runs. Arcia has 81 hits and walked 16 times but has scored just 33 runs. Villar, who's led off most of the year, has scored 31 times on just 52 hits and 24 walks. So Arcia has reached base via hits and walks 21 more times than Villar but only has scored two more runs in large part because behind him has been the pitcher and Villar.

The idea that Arcia somehow has to be protected doesn't make sense. He might be the most confident and talented player they have. I say confident, not cocky because the special players know their good. Braun knew he was good when he arrived in 2007. He didn't need to be protected.

He was put in the 8th spot to begin the year because it was thought he was the weakest bat in the lineup and he needed time for his offense to reach it's potential. I don't think the idea was that Arcia was going to be a number 8 hitter his entire career. We don't know if he's yet reached his potential, but he's no longer the weakest bat in the lineup. Not by a long shot.


Last edited by JohnBriggs12 on July 03, 2017, 9:24 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Online  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#13

Posted: July 03, 2017, 9:20 PM Post
Posts: 3648
Didnt Brinson bat leadoff his 1st start? Im all for a Sogard/Arcia top of the order set up now. Villar at leadoff just not doing it. Swap him to 8th. His bat needs the punishment.


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#14

Posted: July 03, 2017, 9:27 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
I would move him up no doubt and I am not one to move people around much due to production. He was on fire the last week hitting over .500 and OPS'd 1.500. After taking out the 3 HRs(driving in himself) he had one RBI and one run scored. He might as well be hitting .150 at that rate. His most valuable asset right now during his hot streak is probably clearing the pitchers spot when he bats. His strikeout rate has plummetted(just one K in last week) and is hitting .375 in his last 28 days.

Move the dude up in the order. I don't care if he is 22 or 32. If Eric Sogard is at the top of the order because he is flaming hot so should Orlando Arcia. If he magically flops because we moved him in the order no harm done because any value in the #8 spot is often pretty wasteful. I am sorry, but the fact he is still hitting #8 is a bit shocking. I understand he is young and him mashing makes you reluctant to make any type of change, but holy cow how long do you waste away that production in the #8 spot?

Put on your big boy pants Arcia.


Very well said. Take the training wheels off this kid Craig. The guys in the clubhouse know how good he is. I don't think any would take offense if they are moved down to move Arcia up.


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Offline  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#15

Posted: July 04, 2017, 8:42 PM Post
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Brewer Fever said:
The 8 spot in front of the pitcher is one of the hardest spots to bat in. Many batters have quite a bit of difficulty dealing with the expanded zone that comes with the spot before the pitcher creating a black hole at the bottom of the lineup. Arcia is thriving there right now. Let's move him!


Agreed. This ruined Jean Segura a couple of years ago. Move him.


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Offline  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#16

Posted: August 07, 2017, 5:15 AM Post
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The Brewers had their hottest hitter batting 9th over the weekend. Counsell might have the hardest head in baseball.


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Offline  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#17

Posted: August 07, 2017, 5:51 AM Post
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If we move him up and he slumps the narrative will be that the pressure got to him, if we leave him where he is and he slumps the narrative will be that he got frustrated they didn't believe in him. Jean Segura was not ruined by where he batted in the order. He was ruined by hitting everything into the ground for a bit and then having a catastrophe in his personal life.


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Offline  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#18

Posted: August 07, 2017, 6:18 AM Post
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Ennder said:
If we move him up and he slumps the narrative will be that the pressure got to him, if we leave him where he is and he slumps the narrative will be that he got frustrated they didn't believe in him. Jean Segura was not ruined by where he batted in the order. He was ruined by hitting everything into the ground for a bit and then having a catastrophe in his personal life.


Arcia is the best player on the roster and I'm not the only one who thinks that. He believes that. He doesn't let a little tough stretch affect him. You make a huge mistake equating him to Segura. They are different individuals.


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Offline  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#19

Posted: August 07, 2017, 7:59 AM Post
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His batting doesn't warrant a top half of the lineup spot. Probably belongs at 6 ahead of Broxton and whoever we toss out at 2B.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: When is Arcia going to be moved up in the order?
#20

Posted: August 07, 2017, 8:21 AM Post
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[quote="Brew4U"]His batting doesn't warrant a top half of the lineup spot. Probably belongs at 6 ahead of Broxton and whoever we toss out at 2B.[/quote

Say what? Have you been watching the futility in the leadoff spot? Arcia's OBP isn't all that impressive but in June it was .370, in July it was .326 and so far in August it's .409. They desperately need an igniter at the top of the order to jump start the offense. Arcia's not perfect but he's the best option.


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