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Quintana to The Cubs for a lot

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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 10:39 AM Post
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From Ken Rosenthal...

Tweet: Source confirms: #Cubs pursuing Gray even after getting Quintana. First reported: @jonmorosi.

Tweet: Will be interesting to see how hard #Cubs push for Gray. Pursuit makes sense given likely FA losses - and perhaps raises price for #Brewers.

Tweet: One thing Theo Epstein has proven, over and over through the years: He can make a deal.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 10:44 AM Post
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Eye Black at Night said:
From Ken Rosenthal...

Tweet: Source confirms: #Cubs pursuing Gray even after getting Quintana. First reported: @jonmorosi.

Tweet: Will be interesting to see how hard #Cubs push for Gray. Pursuit makes sense given likely FA losses - and perhaps raises price for #Brewers.

Tweet: One thing Theo Epstein has proven, over and over through the years: He can make a deal.

The question is what do the Cubs trade for Gray? They've traded their top guys. Candelario is interesting - but nothing great. I'm guessing they would have to dip into their major league roster - Happ, Baez, Schwarber, and Russell are a few names. Perhaps the A's like their lower level prospects - never know with Beane.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 10:44 AM Post
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Gray would cost the cubs a bat like schwarber or happ to headline a deal to oakland plus prospects (if they have any more), imo. It will take part of their young position player core to make that trade.

Makes sense they are looking for more starters, even with adding quintana they still have Lackey or Montgomery in their 5 man rotation.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 10:48 AM Post
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A Swing and A Drive said:
The Cubs signing of international free agent OF Eloy Jimenez for $2.8M in 2013 essentially landed them 3 1/2 years of a young #2 starter.



And a pitcher who very well may be better than Quintana by the final 1.5 years of that contract.

I'm not convinced Quintana is a #2 starter either. His xFIP over his last 300 innings is over 4. His peripherals have trended the wrong way for 3 straight seasons now. I think his best years are likely behind him even though he is still pretty young. If I thought the Cubs were getting 2014/2015 Quintana I'd like what they did a lot more. I believe they are probably getting 2016/2017 Quintana and that is more of a #3 pitcher.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 11:01 AM Post
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reillymcshane said:
Eye Black at Night said:
From Ken Rosenthal...

Tweet: Source confirms: #Cubs pursuing Gray even after getting Quintana. First reported: @jonmorosi.

Tweet: Will be interesting to see how hard #Cubs push for Gray. Pursuit makes sense given likely FA losses - and perhaps raises price for #Brewers.

Tweet: One thing Theo Epstein has proven, over and over through the years: He can make a deal.

The question is what do the Cubs trade for Gray? They've traded their top guys. Candelario is interesting - but nothing great. I'm guessing they would have to dip into their major league roster - Happ, Baez, Schwarber, and Russell are a few names. Perhaps the A's like their lower level prospects - never know with Beane.


I doubt the Cubs have the ammunition left to either acquire Gray or raise the cost to the Brewers unless they want to include Happ. I'm not even sure Baez or even Schwarber is all that exciting and even if they were, it would take away from the MLB roster.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 11:04 AM Post
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Boomer5 said:

I doubt the Cubs have the ammunition left to either acquire Gray or raise the cost to the Brewers unless they want to include Happ. I'm not even sure Baez or even Schwarber is all that exciting and even if they were, it would take away from the MLB roster.


Schwarber alone is probably more valuable than any one piece the Brewers could offer. Ian Haap also.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 11:05 AM Post
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A Swing and A Drive said:
Boomer5 said:

I doubt the Cubs have the ammunition left to either acquire Gray or raise the cost to the Brewers unless they want to include Happ. I'm not even sure Baez or even Schwarber is all that exciting and even if they were, it would take away from the MLB roster.


Schwarber alone is probably more valuable than any one piece the Brewers could offer. Ian Haap also.


Happ, maybe. Schwarber? No way.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 11:15 AM Post
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A Swing and A Drive said:
Boomer5 said:

I doubt the Cubs have the ammunition left to either acquire Gray or raise the cost to the Brewers unless they want to include Happ. I'm not even sure Baez or even Schwarber is all that exciting and even if they were, it would take away from the MLB roster.


Schwarber alone is probably more valuable than any one piece the Brewers could offer. Ian Haap also.


In my post I said Happ would be enough to aquire Gray but that takes away from the MLB roster.

Schwarber is in the eye of the beholder. Who do they see? The guy who looked like the next great LH slugger or the guy who can't field at all and is hitting .178 in mid July with a -0.6 WAR and has his service clock already running?


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 11:32 AM Post
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Schwarber could be a DH/1b for Oakland. What if the Cubs returned Russell and Schwarber for Gray? All things considered The Cubs could be dealing away their troubled promising players and trade Gray this offseason for something not so troubling. Dies Oakland have an old 2b or SS to pass on with the trade? Itd be like us sending Escobar for Yuni.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 11:45 AM Post
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brewcrewdue80 said:
Schwarber could be a DH/1b for Oakland. What if the Cubs returned Russell and Schwarber for Gray? All things considered The Cubs could be dealing away their troubled promising players and trade Gray this offseason for something not so troubling. Dies Oakland have an old 2b or SS to pass on with the trade? Itd be like us sending Escobar for Yuni.


I'm sure Oakland would do that. Two buy low guys for Gray? Moneyball indeed.

Still this just highlights that the only meaningful ammo left for the Cubs is their MLB roster.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 11:49 AM Post
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Schwarber does seem like the type of guy that Oakland likes. Bad fielding slugger who takes walks.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 11:49 AM Post
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Schwarber is at 555 MLB plate appearances for his career thus far - just enough to qualify for 1 season although the MLB average for PA's for a heart of the order hitter (i.e., #5 hitter) is around 700 over 162 games. His career MLB OPS is 0.763 and he's a 0.210 hitter who can't play defense. He also has 157 MLB strikeouts (28% K rate). That's Adam Dunn K rate territory, only he's OPS-ing close to 100 points lower than Dunn's career average.

If Schwarber is going to be the next great left-handed slugger, he's got to be a different player than what he's shown at the MLB level to date.


Last edited by Fear The Chorizo on July 14, 2017, 11:52 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 11:50 AM Post
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Thinking on if Baez can play SS Happ moves to 2b and Zobrist sits in OF....or maybe Happ with Schwarber keeping the middle infield intact.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 11:59 AM Post
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I want Schwarber off the Cubs. He's 24. He's probably going to have a huge age 26 or 27 season like Travis Shaw is having. Perfect fit for an AL team.

Schwarber at age 24: .178/.300/.394
Aaron Judge at age 24: .179/.263/.345


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 12:00 PM Post
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Or possibly, Theo is just making a feeble attempt at getting DS to make a nervous decision to make a trade for a starter. Just a thought. To Theo: "Good luck with that ya Cha Chi!" [laughing]


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 12:09 PM Post
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For the Cubs, the guy I would want to give up is Schwarber. He's a guy without a position. He should play DH or 1B - and that's not happening in Chicago.

Cub fans became overly attached to Schwarber based on a few big moments. The reality is that he hit just fine (at least for that first year or so) for a young guy. He has 30 HR potential - that's pretty tantalizing. But the reality was that he was a left handed hitting Mike Napoli (at least at the plate). Mediocre average, lots of power potential, below average baserunner - but he was never the next Mark McGwire (even if Cub fans thought that's what he was).

Doesn't mean the guy won't someday bang out 40 dingers - but he's likely going to do it hitting .250 and not .300.

So, if I were the Cubs, I'd be building a trade around Schwarber if possible. Happ could play LF, Baez 2B, Russell SS. Zobrist is probably best as a utility guy - sort of our Hernan Perez. The guy is 35, and age may be finally catching up with him. But the Cubs are stuck with him for 2.5 more years - so they should keep him fresh. Zobrist might be best getting 350-400 ABs instead of being out there every day.

Schwarber, Jeimer Candelario and maybe a low level pitching prospect might work for Oakland. Although I think someone said that Oakland wanted a major pitching prospect back in any deal for Gray. If that's true, this doesn't work.

And it doesn't work if Oakland isn't enthralled with Schwarber. Who knows. Fun to speculate.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 12:14 PM Post
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bigred said:
Or possibly, Theo is just making a feeble attempt at getting DS to make a nervous decision to make a trade for a starter. Just a thought. To Theo: "Good luck with that ya Cha Chi!" [laughing]


Assuming the Brewers are in first by late July, they will be trading for a starter. Junior looks done (7.15 FiP) and it would be unwise to count on Garza to finish strong and healthy. That's leaves Suter as our 4 assuming Anderson comes back and can be an ace like he has been this year but hasn't been before.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 12:14 PM Post
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I don't think the Cubs have the necessary minor league prospects for Gray. They do have young MLB guys, as others have mentioned. Happ straight up would be an excellent get for the A's, imo.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 3:47 PM Post
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Ennder said:
danzig6767 said:
I wouldn't be so certain in saying the Cubs have crippled themselves four years from now.

That is a long time and Theo is an upper tier GM. A wide variety of things can happen over those four years in how they draft, international signings, trades, free agency, etc. No question these trades will make it harder for Theo to have the Cubs still be really good 3-4-5 years from now, but he's not like some dumb GM's of past big market teams who signed a bunch of bad free agent contracts and left the organization in shambles. I'm not saying that he's infallible, but he is a bright guy so i wouldn't just go assuming that disaster is coming for the Cubs in the time frame you listed.


He could have done all that and still had a bunch of young players filtering into the team at the same time though. I looked at this Cubs team as one that was going to be a dominant team for the next 10 years or so mid season last year. Now I see it as one that is just going to have the typical 5 year window and a GM hoping he can stretch it with good moves. The franchise outlook has changed dramatically in the past calendar year. It won a World Series and I fully expect them to be in the hunt for at least one more over the next 4 years so it was a good move. But this certainly has helped the Brewers future as well. I don't really see how that is debatable given everything they have traded away with a focus on this 5 year window of Rizzo/Bryant.

I guarantee you that if their rotation had held up this year and they were in first place that this trade would not have happened. This is Theo trying to bandaid something that went wrong way before he expected it to. It doesn't mean it is a bad move but it is something good for the Brewers long term.

Keep in mind Theo got Arrieta in a trade for nothing and while Hendricks also came in a Dempster trade, he was only an 8th round pick.

Obviously the incredible Arrieta turnaround isn't something which happens often, but there are ways to add highly productive talent without a top 5 picks or in trades like the Quintana one. A smart GM just has to try and target who they see as undervalued talent and then hope with some luck mixed in, strike silver or gold.

Stearns has done it with multiple guys like Thames, Aguliar, Shaw, Broxton, etc. Granted, the Cubs are in a different place in the competitive landscape, but i don't think that Theo will just give up on trying to find undervalued talent and the draft can land multiple guys outside the first round who become better than expected. Look at our farm system. Same for the international market.


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Offline  Re: Quintana to The Cubs for a lot
Posted: July 14, 2017, 4:16 PM Post
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NievesNoNO said:
I don't think the Cubs have the necessary minor league prospects for Gray. They do have young MLB guys, as others have mentioned. Happ straight up would be an excellent get for the A's, imo.


After what the White sox just got for a controlled starter, there is no way in hell Beane would accept that. He is looking for something similar to the Quintana trade and i don't blame him.


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