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Comparing 2011 to 2017

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Offline  Comparing 2011 to 2017
#1

Posted: July 14, 2017, 1:45 PM Post
Posts: 251
Trying to compare both teams and seeing what pieces we may be missing - Purely looking at stats

2017 vs 2011
C - Pina/Vogt > LuCroy
1B - Thames < Fielder
2B - Villar < Weeks
SS - Arcia > Betancourt
3B - Shaw > McGehee
LF - Braun < Braun
CF - Broxton = Morgan
RF - Hart = Santana


Anderson >Greinke -
Nelson >Gallardo
Davies < Marcum
Guerra < Wolf
Garza = Narveson

Knebel = Axford
Hughes < KRod
Barnes < Hawkins
Drake < Loe
Hader > Estrada

2017 has better offense - If we get that Ace type (Archer) and another bullpen arm, we would be a better team than 2011

Thoughts?


Last edited by mlloyd10 on July 14, 2017, 2:00 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#2

Posted: July 14, 2017, 1:54 PM Post
Posts: 2832
2017 defense is much much better, as is the 2017 bench and organizational depth.


Last edited by 3and2Fastball on July 14, 2017, 5:52 PM, edited 1 time in total.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#3

Posted: July 14, 2017, 3:48 PM Post
Posts: 941
Yo and Greinke were tough.....
Put a couple of those type pitchers on top of our rotation, and the doubters go away.


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#4

Posted: July 14, 2017, 5:42 PM Post
Posts: 7219
Davies is going to have a big 2nd half, get the ERA down, and challenge 20 wins. That will be huge


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#5

Posted: July 14, 2017, 7:07 PM Post
Posts: 12301
The 2011 offense was better. Other than CF, that defense in 2011 was pretty brutal. Pitching in 2011 was better. Overall I would take the 2011 team. I still think the Brewers are playing over their head a bit this year.

Fan is short for fanatic.
I blame Wang.


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#6

Posted: July 14, 2017, 7:28 PM Post
Posts: 6267
Location: Kenosha, WI
I will take Morgan over Broxton easily. Would also prefer Hart over Santana. Pitching was way way better. Anderson/Nelson likely fade a bit.


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Online  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#7

Posted: July 14, 2017, 10:39 PM Post
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Posts: 527
Location: bush Alaska
What I'd change/add:
Anderson = Grienke
Nelson = Gallardo
Drake = Loe
2017 mix < Saito, Mitre
Perez > Counsell


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#8

Posted: July 15, 2017, 9:42 AM Post
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Posts: 1588
I think we should bring back K Rod just for nostalgia's sake


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#9

Posted: July 15, 2017, 9:45 AM Post
Posts: 764
DocLuna7 said:
I think we should bring back K Rod just for nostalgia's sake


...and then flip him for a 3rd prospect.


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#10

Posted: July 15, 2017, 3:01 PM Post
Posts: 1740
The 2011 Brewers won 96 games.


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#11

Posted: July 15, 2017, 3:41 PM Post
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Posts: 5519
logan82 said:
The 2011 offense was better. Other than CF, that defense in 2011 was pretty brutal. Pitching in 2011 was better. Overall I would take the 2011 team. I still think the Brewers are playing over their head a bit this year.


I guess you have to look at it with some relativity.

2017 team OPS .777
2011 team OPS .750

2017 team OPS+ = 100
2011 team OPS+ = 102

2017 team ERA = 4.09
2011 team ERA = 3.63

2017 team ERA+ = 108
2011 team ERA+ = 109

The 2017 team is scoring more runs and has a better team OPS. Is it "better" relative to the competition and the run-scoring opportunities in the league? They seem about even. The 2011 team had better pitching, but again, the ERA+ (a very simplistic measure, I admit) shows that again, relative to the competition, the teams are super similar. A lot of people will say the pitching in 2011 was a LOT better. The pitching this year hasn't really been *that* bad. The bullpen has been better the last few months. The starting rotation (aside from Davies and Guerra) has been better than expected.

Are the starters as good as they have performed? Maybe not, but the numbers aren't measuring the actual talent level, they are measuring what has occurred on the field.


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#12

Posted: July 16, 2017, 4:34 PM Post
Posts: 326
From July 26 to September 5, the 2011 Brewers went 30-8. They had an insane August and won the majority of those games giving up 3 runs or fewer (and put together a 5 game winning streak while never scoring more than 3).

I think the 2017 edition has a similarly balanced offensive attack and more depth for sure. Better defense too, definitely up the middle. 2011 pitching feels much, much better, though. After Nelson, I don't have a lot of faith in the rest of the starters. We'll see if Anderson can return to form when he comes back. The difference for me is that the 2011 Brewers had a deep pitching staff that could largely be counted on for quality starts and solid late-inning outs. I still feel like this year's team is going to have to win games 7-5. Maybe somebody from the pen or Davies comes alive, or maybe Suter is for real and Guerra figures out his mechanics and velocity. That's what it'll take for me to really believe, though.

Two ten game road trips in the next month, one of them out west. It's tough not to be frustrated when the lead shrinks, but I am trying to remind myself that the overall record matters more right now. Just keep playing well and trying to go 6-4 every 10 or 7-5 every 12. Crew does that, and they're probably right there in September, for the wild card at the very least and hopefully holding off the rest of the Central.


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#13

Posted: July 16, 2017, 8:44 PM Post
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How is Chase Anderson greater or even equal to Zack Greinke?

Also, how is Jimmy Nelson greater or even equal to Yovani Gallardo?


I get that both Anderson Nelson are having breakout seasons, but that is just nuts.

I think overall our current offense could be on par with 2011, but 2011 Braun and Fielder are a more potent middle of the lineup.

The 2011 rotation after Yo was nothing too special, but that 2011 rotation still had a ton more experience and track record then our current one.

Also, the current bullpen overall might be as good but also lacks the experience that the 2011 bullpen had.


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#14

Posted: July 16, 2017, 9:17 PM Post
Posts: 251
A Swing and A Drive said:
How is Chase Anderson greater or even equal to Zack Greinke?

Also, how is Jimmy Nelson greater or even equal to Yovani Gallardo?


I get that both Anderson Nelson are having breakout seasons, but that is just nuts.

I think overall our current offense could be on par with 2011, but 2011 Braun and Fielder are a more potent middle of the lineup.

The 2011 rotation after Yo was nothing too special, but that 2011 rotation still had a ton more experience and track record then our current one.

Also, the current bullpen overall might be as good but also lacks the experience that the 2011 bullpen had.


If you would have read...Based purely on Stats...I guess most people don't realize that Grienke had an ERA of 3.83 (yes if FIP was 2.98)


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#15

Posted: July 17, 2017, 1:50 AM Post
Posts: 259
Cool Hand Lucroy said:
From July 26 to September 5, the 2011 Brewers went 30-8. They had an insane August and won the majority of those games giving up 3 runs or fewer (and put together a 5 game winning streak while never scoring more than 3).

I think the 2017 edition has a similarly balanced offensive attack and more depth for sure. Better defense too, definitely up the middle. 2011 pitching feels much, much better, though. After Nelson, I don't have a lot of faith in the rest of the starters. We'll see if Anderson can return to form when he comes back. The difference for me is that the 2011 Brewers had a deep pitching staff that could largely be counted on for quality starts and solid late-inning outs. I still feel like this year's team is going to have to win games 7-5. Maybe somebody from the pen or Davies comes alive, or maybe Suter is for real and Guerra figures out his mechanics and velocity. That's what it'll take for me to really believe, though.

Two ten game road trips in the next month, one of them out west. It's tough not to be frustrated when the lead shrinks, but I am trying to remind myself that the overall record matters more right now. Just keep playing well and trying to go 6-4 every 10 or 7-5 every 12. Crew does that, and they're probably right there in September, for the wild card at the very least and hopefully holding off the rest of the Central.



Anderson is the guy that I'm surprised by...though less than others. I was going to post a link, but I just recently read an article from fangraphs that was from before the season that had 10 bold predictions across MLB. Two were Brewers related and both were dead on, one was Arcia was going to out produce Aledmys Díaz this year and the other was that Anderson was going to finally pitch to his potential. I guess I never viewed him as having this type of potential, but he definitely did.

That 2011 team was more proven, they were deeper with proven pitchers(Grienke was arguably the 4th best pitcher that one year). You also had Weeks, Hart, Braun and Prince all having career years or near career years. I don't think this years team can match that team. This current team has definitely has a more balanced attack, but they don't have that MVP in the middle of the order, they don't have that guy like Prince with a .400 OBP.

That said, this year might be the most fun I've had watching the Brewers. If they don't make the playoffs or add anyone that won't change. If the 2011 team didn't make the playoffs that would have been a huge letdown.

Of course back in 2011 I still believed Mat Gamel would end up hitting like Ben Gamel currently is.


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Offline  Re: Comparing 2011 to 2017
#16

Posted: July 17, 2017, 9:55 AM Post
Posts: 1787
I'm just throwing this in here because there's no "2017 Brewers pessimism thread," and I'd feel bad starting one . . . the worst team in baseball just pretty much played us to a draw in a home series. That's bad. I don't mind game 2, because Nola's good, but the other win and the loss didn't exactly look like the work of a playoff team.

It's only one series, yeah, but I'm worried. Right now I don't know if we have the arms to make up for the inevitable lapses in offense. FWIW, I don't think Sonny Gray is anything close to the answer. We need either (a) Guerra to find his mojo, (b) Davies to find his mojo, or (c) Woodruff to make a splash, in order to hold the fort until Anderson gets back; then we need Anderson to pick up where he left off. That's a lot to ask for.

OTOH, my favorite thing about this team is how they haven't folded. When they were in danger of losing the division lead, they won. They hadn't lost ground in the standings before yesterday in quite a while. They've earned respect.


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