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Indians acquire Jay Bruce

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Online  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#21

Posted: August 10, 2017, 2:21 PM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
For the next 6 weeks I'd take my chances with Bruce over either Braun or Santana. What have either Braun or Santana done the last few weeks?

Ryan Braun has hit .333 over the last 21 days.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#22

Posted: August 10, 2017, 2:58 PM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
For the next 6 weeks I'd take my chances with Bruce over either Braun or Santana. What have either Braun or Santana done the last few weeks?


Huh? Last 6 weeks (since July 1)

Braun - 300/374/570
Santana - 294/380/487
Bruce - 228/273/491

Just for fun, your other man-crush Denard Span - 213/267/352


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Online  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#23

Posted: August 10, 2017, 3:12 PM Post
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Man Briggs, do some reasearch before posting. Not a good look for ya.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#24

Posted: August 10, 2017, 3:23 PM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
And Braun's been doing that with bad luck. He's been smoking the ball, that average should actually be even higher without some of those great hits that ended up as outs.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#25

Posted: August 10, 2017, 4:03 PM Post
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Humans Need Water said:
Boomer5 said:
Fangraphs has us as the 5th worst roster in the game going forward. Pretty much we have been in the bottom 5 all year long.

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.as ... &teamid=23

Our guys way over achieved and while it was fun to watch, it was fools gold. To compound the problem, we have a lot of guys that are ok, but not great or even good. So other than 2B and CF, we really don't have a black hole where a guy like Bruce can fit and be enough of an upgrade to spark this team.

It's only fools gold if you can't see the actual talent/ability these players have. The offense has hit a massive rough stretch going on 3+ weeks now due to inconsistency. Some guys will hit while others won't then it'll flip flop but it all amounts to guys getting on base but not getting that clutch hit to drive them in. They've also had plenty of games where they've hit the ball hard and had good ABs but nothing is coming of it. It is what it is. There's only so much you can do as a player - if you square up the ball you did your job as you can't control what happens once the ball leaves the bat.

Again, Stearns knows what the price is for Kinsler/Phillips/Granderson/etc. If he's not comfortable giving up what we'd need to then he's not going to pull the trigger. He also believes in this team that they can turn it around as a collective offensive unit and start putting runs up again.


You must be firmly in his head to "know" he believes that. Because if he truly does, he killed this team by not trading what was most likely an out of or just barely one of our top 30 prospect to pick up the contracts of Kinsler/Phillips/Granderson.

The season is fools gold unless you believe Thames was the player we saw in April, Sogard was the player we saw in April-June, the bullpen was marginal until the July full on collapse, Pina at 30 is a legitimate 4 war player going forward,and Shaw is really Mike Schmidt. Just like Junior and Villar werent real building blocks, these guys arent either, though I have some high hopes for Shaw being a repeat performer.

Stearns is an analytics guy and the analytics all year long said we were looking at a mirage. At no point did fangraphs have us ranked in the top 20 WAR rosters, let alone a play off team. In fact we were securely positioned in the bottom 5 teams most of the season with tiny jumps to 6th worst.

Stearns isnt making any moves because the analytics say this is a bad team that wont win even a weakened division and certainly wont do any damage in the playoffs.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#26

Posted: August 10, 2017, 4:17 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
Man Briggs, do some reasearch before posting. Not a good look for ya.


Some people insist on making moves purely for the same of making moves. If we had the DH in the NL I would have been for adding Bruce, but like others have said he has no where to play here.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#27

Posted: August 10, 2017, 5:30 PM Post
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I in no WAY intimated I wanted the brewers to acquire Jay Bruce when I started this thread. Everyone seems ot think that's what I implied. It's not...What I implied is DS is still sitting there doing nothing to try to improve the gaping holes this team has in CF and at 2B. You cannot tell me there haven't been guys put on waivers that he could have acquired for next to nothing at those two positions. August deals generally do not cost much in terms of talent to give up, so I don't see the harm in him acquiring some one.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#28

Posted: August 10, 2017, 6:37 PM Post
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Keon Broxton is on pace for about 1.5 WAR over a full season. There is no gaping hole at CF. He is better than most CF that are available. Bringing in a 2B would be fine but I don't really see a huge point in it either. One guy isn't going to turn this roster into a playoff contender. They are better off just hoping one of the in house guys shows some reason to believe they will be useful next season.


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Online  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#29

Posted: August 10, 2017, 6:41 PM Post
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Ennder said:
Keon Broxton is on pace for about 1.5 WAR over a full season. There is no gaping hole at CF. He is better than most CF that are available. Bringing in a 2B would be fine but I don't really see a huge point in it either. One guy isn't going to turn this roster into a playoff contender. They are better off just hoping one of the in house guys shows some reason to believe they will be useful next season.


You just don't know the trickle down effect a player can have. One guy gets brought in and produces and all of a sudden others are producing again. You just don't know. That's why this is frustrating. To do nothing is basically throwing in the towel.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#30

Posted: August 10, 2017, 6:51 PM Post
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I'm not understanding this whole "well this one position sucks but there's no point in upgrading because it's not going to make everyone else better/you don't need to be good at every position."


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#31

Posted: August 10, 2017, 7:06 PM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
For the next 6 weeks I'd take my chances with Bruce over either Braun or Santana. What have either Braun or Santana done the last few weeks?


Without regard to the stats that have already been pointed out..........

If you'd want Jay Bruce in the lineup over Ryan Braun I can't help you. It's just such a crazy notion.

I hate the Cubs. I hope they die.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#32

Posted: August 10, 2017, 7:22 PM Post
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Brewcrewin07 said:
I in no WAY intimated I wanted the brewers to acquire Jay Bruce when I started this thread. Everyone seems ot think that's what I implied. It's not...What I implied is DS is still sitting there doing nothing to try to improve the gaping holes this team has in CF and at 2B. You cannot tell me there haven't been guys put on waivers that he could have acquired for next to nothing at those two positions. August deals generally do not cost much in terms of talent to give up, so I don't see the harm in him acquiring some one.

However, no other teams have grabbed the guys at CF or 2B that have been talked about either. It takes two teams to make a trade and you have no idea if the other GMs are being reasonable with their requests at this point. They have 20 more days to trade their guys, so there's a decent chance they're demanding more than they're worth at this point still. Which they should, there's no reason for them to take a low ball (or even reasonable) offer as it doesn't make a difference to them if they're traded today or August 31st, but they know it matters to contenders and they might get something extra by making a team overpay to fill a hole for a couple extra weeks.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#33

Posted: August 10, 2017, 7:37 PM Post
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cubsdie said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
For the next 6 weeks I'd take my chances with Bruce over either Braun or Santana. What have either Braun or Santana done the last few weeks?


Without regard to the stats that have already been pointed out..........

If you'd want Jay Bruce in the lineup over Ryan Braun I can't help you. It's just such a crazy notion.

Shrug. It's what he does. Likes a name. Ignores the facts.

Fan is short for fanatic.
I blame Wang.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#34

Posted: August 11, 2017, 6:29 AM Post
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Brewcrewin07 said:
I in no WAY intimated I wanted the brewers to acquire Jay Bruce when I started this thread. Everyone seems ot think that's what I implied. It's not...What I implied is DS is still sitting there doing nothing to try to improve the gaping holes this team has in CF and at 2B. You cannot tell me there haven't been guys put on waivers that he could have acquired for next to nothing at those two positions. August deals generally do not cost much in terms of talent to give up, so I don't see the harm in him acquiring some one.


I intentionally made it about you wanting Jay Bruce because unless you are in the Brewers front office you have absolutely no clue who they are attempting to acquire and what for. You don't know who is available and for what. There are no trade clauses that could make a Lewis Brinson and Josh Hader for Ian Kinsler trade not work.

Also do you realize why guys aren't expensive? Partially their contracts, but they also usually aren't very good. So the odds anyone we acquire actually makes a difference is pretty darn minimal.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#35

Posted: August 11, 2017, 9:35 AM Post
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There are no trade clauses that could make a Lewis Brinson and Josh Hader for Ian Kinsler trade not work.

I'd say there are some sanity clauses that should make us not do that trade as well :-)


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#36

Posted: August 11, 2017, 10:06 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:
Also do you realize why guys aren't expensive? Partially their contracts, but they also usually aren't very good. So the odds anyone we acquire actually makes a difference is pretty darn minimal.

Bruce has a marginally higher OPS (.868) vs. RHP than either Braun (.859) or Santana (.819). Most pitchers are RH. Citi Field is also a pitcher-friendly park; Bruce's away OPS is .915 while his home OPS is .763. The notion that he isn't very good is patently false.

Why they aren't expensive? None of us knows. Salary is a component. But Bruce isn't the only OF that didn't command much in trade value - any notion that J.D. Martinez (season OPS of 1.008!) isn't very good is a far worse conclusion than anything Briggs posted in this tread.

I think the reason they don't command much is that it isn't difficult to find corner OF, and that is the main reason why I have been questioning spending so many high draft picks on OFs. People say, "Oh, they can just trade them, take the best player"; well, if OFs are easy to find, there won't be a need for them.

Simple supply and demand economics - high supply of OFs + marginal deman = low price. That's why, IMO, they aren't expensive.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#37

Posted: August 11, 2017, 10:37 AM Post
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Sorry you took that as all. I was referring the majority of players. Obviously supply vs. demand is a component. Guys we would target(Kinsler) aren't that great.

Bigger point was you can use this trade as an example or a way to judge Stearns.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#38

Posted: August 11, 2017, 12:44 PM Post
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Brew4U said:

You just don't know the trickle down effect a player can have. One guy gets brought in and produces and all of a sudden others are producing again. You just don't know. That's why this is frustrating. To do nothing is basically throwing in the towel.



Or they can come in and just do nothing or they can come in and stink like Cahill has. One player rarely makes a large difference in under half a season unless they are a stud that you have to pay a ton for. If we had traded for Kinsler and Bruce the team might have 1 more win than it does right now. You can't get hung up on results, you have to look at the actual roster. This is all just a sequencing issue. If we had our cold streak right before the all star break nobody wants us to be buyers, but we happened to win 8 of 10 and hit our high point so everyone wants to buy. This team is not a playoff team and a couple marginal players added does not make it one.

We had an 10-2 stretch in May too, followed that up losing 5 in a row. Baseball is a really streaky game and you don't want to get stuck judging your team by its record right after the hot streak.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#39

Posted: August 11, 2017, 12:51 PM Post
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We need to trade for Curtis Granderson now so his trickle-down effect makes Villar learn to contact the baseball at the plate again. Or bring in Kinsler so his leadership gets Aguilar to transform his defense.

Am I doing this right?


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Online  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#40

Posted: August 11, 2017, 1:02 PM Post
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bill hAll Star said:
We need to trade for Curtis Granderson now so his trickle-down effect makes Villar learn to contact the baseball at the plate again. Or bring in Kinsler so his leadership gets Aguilar to transform his defense.

Am I doing this right?


Yep. Sometimes the right mix is just needed. It's okay if you don't believe that. Some do, some don't. But you don't have to attemp to belittle those that do. Your act has gotten stale.


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