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Indians acquire Jay Bruce

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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#61

Posted: August 11, 2017, 4:14 PM Post
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Over 40 games or so just about any random MLB player can go on a tear. Who's more likely to though? The guy who's just about a guaranteed .750 OPS every year of his career (Kinsler), a guy who seems to have fluked his way into 1 great year with a terrible approach at the plate (Villar), a guy who's really done nothing with the bat and refuses to take a pitch (Perez), or a career fringe major leaguer (Sogard)?


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#62

Posted: August 11, 2017, 4:39 PM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
Over 40 games or so just about any random MLB player can go on a tear. Who's more likely to though? The guy who's just about a guaranteed .730 OPS every year of his career (Kinsler), a guy who seems to have fluked his way into 1 great year with a terrible approach at the plate (Villar), a guy who's really done nothing with the bat and refuses to take a pitch (Perez), or a career fringe major leaguer (Sogard)?


Sure, it's Kinsler who we now know isn't an option and also is an expensive upgrade over Perez, who, while I do understand his OBP is bad has put up said .750 OPS the last few years with lots of steals.

If we were 6 games up on the Cubs with 2 months left I'd be all over Kinsler, Phillips, anyone...

Given where we are now just pray for a miracle with Villar and Perez. Heck, Phillips could come over and randomly hit like an MVP and it still may not be enough.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#63

Posted: August 11, 2017, 7:50 PM Post
Posts: 1719
It's really only one of two things:

1. Stearns knows the MLB team is as bad as the analytics say so trading prospects is throwing assets away.

2. He did try but our prospects outside of Brinson aren't very good.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#64

Posted: August 11, 2017, 9:16 PM Post
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Location: Baltimore, MD
Boomer5 said:
It's really only one of two things:

1. Stearns knows the MLB team is as bad as the analytics say so trading prospects is throwing assets away.

2. He did try but our prospects outside of Brinson aren't very good.

3. Stearns also values prospects not named Brinson and thinks the asking price for players is too high even if Brinson isn't included.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#65

Posted: August 12, 2017, 4:07 AM Post
Posts: 1719
MrAllen said:
Boomer5 said:
It's really only one of two things:

1. Stearns knows the MLB team is as bad as the analytics say so trading prospects is throwing assets away.

2. He did try but our prospects outside of Brinson aren't very good.

3. Stearns also values prospects not named Brinson and thinks the asking price for players is too high even if Brinson isn't included.


Well he traded a guy hitting 359 for a guy who could only mange 2 innings before he was demoted; and he traded our 17th ranked prospect for a guy who will pitch about 20 innings or so on what is now a 4th place team then become a FA, so it does appear he is willing to over pay to get guys he wants.

Ultimately it appears he made the right call not trading for Gray as the team is in full free fall and nothing Gray could have done would have mattered at this point.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#66

Posted: August 12, 2017, 9:39 AM Post
Posts: 451
Thanks to another site board member, I was able to get a deeper dive into the Jay Bruce numbers as he played in Cleveland during his career.
He is a beast at Jacobs/ Progressive during his career..

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... Career&t=b

I share that info here as similar links can be used for looking at Phillips/ Kinsler/ Sonny Gray/ etc.

I would not suggest that DStearns is an 'analytics only' guy but it is clear he will use & review that info more than the front office before him.
Perhaps there were some issues that as fans we are not currently aware of. Perhaps it drove him to pursue other players that have not yet been successful. Either way it is clear the DStearns has had an overall strategy & he has stuck to it.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#67

Posted: August 12, 2017, 9:50 AM Post
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MadThinker88 said:
Thanks to another site board member, I was able to get a deeper dive into the Jay Bruce numbers as he played in Cleveland during his career.
He is a beast at Jacobs/ Progressive during his career..

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... Career&t=b

I share that info here as similar links can be used for looking at Phillips/ Kinsler/ Sonny Gray/ etc.

I would not suggest that DStearns is an 'analytics only' guy but it is clear he will use & review that info more than the front office before him.
Perhaps there were some issues that as fans we are not currently aware of. Perhaps it drove him to pursue other players that have not yet been successful. Either way it is clear the DStearns has had an overall strategy & he has stuck to it.


Stats a player has at a specific park are pretty pointless and have little meaning. I really doubt Stearns or any GM is making decisions based off of them.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#68

Posted: August 12, 2017, 10:01 AM Post
Posts: 3982
Boomer5 said:
MrAllen said:
Boomer5 said:
It's really only one of two things:

1. Stearns knows the MLB team is as bad as the analytics say so trading prospects is throwing assets away.

2. He did try but our prospects outside of Brinson aren't very good.

3. Stearns also values prospects not named Brinson and thinks the asking price for players is too high even if Brinson isn't included.


Well he traded a guy hitting 359 for a guy who could only mange 2 innings before he was demoted; and he traded our 17th ranked prospect for a guy who will pitch about 20 innings or so on what is now a 4th place team then become a FA, so it does appear he is willing to over pay to get guys he wants.

Ultimately it appears he made the right call not trading for Gray as the team is in full free fall and nothing Gray could have done would have mattered at this point.


What does the team's standing now have to do with trading for a guy back when the team was higher in the standings?

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#69

Posted: August 12, 2017, 10:06 AM Post
Posts: 451
jerichoholicninja said:
MadThinker88 said:
Thanks to another site board member, I was able to get a deeper dive into the Jay Bruce numbers as he played in Cleveland during his career.
He is a beast at Jacobs/ Progressive during his career..

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... Career&t=b

I share that info here as similar links can be used for looking at Phillips/ Kinsler/ Sonny Gray/ etc.

I would not suggest that DStearns is an 'analytics only' guy but it is clear he will use & review that info more than the front office before him.
Perhaps there were some issues that as fans we are not currently aware of. Perhaps it drove him to pursue other players that have not yet been successful. Either way it is clear the DStearns has had an overall strategy & he has stuck to it.


Stats a player has at a specific park are pretty pointless and have little meaning. I really doubt Stearns or any GM is making decisions based off of them.


I guess we will agree to disagree. I believe DS will use any and all means to make a solid decision (including these numbers). Like the spaghetti sauce "it's in there".

However, I did not say DS made his decisions based on those numbers. Please note what I put in bold. DS will at least look at that info. I highly doubt his predecessor ever looked at that type of data.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#70

Posted: August 12, 2017, 12:36 PM Post
Posts: 3982
MadThinker88 said:
jerichoholicninja said:
MadThinker88 said:
Thanks to another site board member, I was able to get a deeper dive into the Jay Bruce numbers as he played in Cleveland during his career.
He is a beast at Jacobs/ Progressive during his career..

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... Career&t=b

I share that info here as similar links can be used for looking at Phillips/ Kinsler/ Sonny Gray/ etc.

I would not suggest that DStearns is an 'analytics only' guy but it is clear he will use & review that info more than the front office before him.
Perhaps there were some issues that as fans we are not currently aware of. Perhaps it drove him to pursue other players that have not yet been successful. Either way it is clear the DStearns has had an overall strategy & he has stuck to it.


Stats a player has at a specific park are pretty pointless and have little meaning. I really doubt Stearns or any GM is making decisions based off of them.


I guess we will agree to disagree. I believe DS will use any and all means to make a solid decision (including these numbers). Like the spaghetti sauce "it's in there".

However, I did not say DS made his decisions based on those numbers. Please note what I put in bold. DS will at least look at that info. I highly doubt his predecessor ever looked at that type of data.


Doug Melvin was one of the GM's who used sabermetrics early on. Melvin, like Stearns and pretty much every GM today, use both scouting and advanced stats. An approach I agree with. To me it's more about where one uses stats or scouts, and to what degree, than if they use them at all.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#71

Posted: August 12, 2017, 1:10 PM Post
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Posts: 767
Location: Baltimore, MD
Boomer5 said:
MrAllen said:
Boomer5 said:
It's really only one of two things:

1. Stearns knows the MLB team is as bad as the analytics say so trading prospects is throwing assets away.

2. He did try but our prospects outside of Brinson aren't very good.

3. Stearns also values prospects not named Brinson and thinks the asking price for players is too high even if Brinson isn't included.


Well he traded a guy hitting 359 for a guy who could only mange 2 innings before he was demoted; and he traded our 17th ranked prospect for a guy who will pitch about 20 innings or so on what is now a 4th place team then become a FA, so it does appear he is willing to over pay to get guys he wants.

Not sure how either of those example proves he's willing to overpay to get guys he wants. As you stated in your own quote, neither guy was ranked in our top 16 prospects. He may just not have valued either of those guys highly to begin with and didn't see losing them as having an affect on the future of the team. If teams are asking for players in the top 10 or even top 5 for whoever he's targeting now he's likely to value them a bit more than either of those examples.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#72

Posted: August 12, 2017, 3:59 PM Post
Posts: 1719
He gave up more than he got back in those two trades, therefore he over paid. It's just that we were desperate for bullpen help so he had no choice if he wanted the team to try and be competitive.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#73

Posted: August 13, 2017, 2:16 AM Post
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Big numbers as an opposing player in Miller Park is how we got saddled with Johnny Estrada


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#74

Posted: August 13, 2017, 6:34 AM Post
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Boomer5 said:
He gave up more than he got back in those two trades, therefore he over paid. It's just that we were desperate for bullpen help so he had no choice if he wanted the team to try and be competitive.


Cordell and Cooper easily could have both been lost to the rule 5 draft at some point. Neither looked likely to be a part of the teams near future and might not be part of the far future. This statement really isn't a solid truth. It could be true but you can't really say it with any certainty.


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Offline  Re: Indians acquire Jay Bruce
#75

Posted: August 13, 2017, 6:43 AM Post
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trwi7 said:
Who other than guys like Gray, Darvish and Quintana were even traded? It seemed like the deadline this year was either big names or secondary pieces. It didn't involve decent to good regulars unless I'm missing someone.


J.D Martinez is probably the biggest name you are missing.


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