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Second base

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Offline  Second base
#1

Posted: August 10, 2017, 9:19 AM Post
Posts: 25
I realize I'm grasping at straws here but, assuming we don't trade for a 2nd baseman, what about giving the job to Villar for the next 2-3 weeks. Let him play against right and left handed pitchers. Let him know that the job is his for a period of time. He's a talented guy, perhaps a clean slate mentally could get him going again. Putting Sogard there hasn't worked out lately and Perez may be needed at third for the short term, depending on Shaw's situation. Like I said grasping at straws!


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Offline  Re: Second base
#2

Posted: August 10, 2017, 9:36 AM Post
Posts: 6107
Location: Kenosha, WI
If one doesn't believe the Brewers have a chance at the postseason Villar is the obvious choice. However since we are still in it every AB matters so that is why Sogard/Perez are still trotted out there despite their non existent ceilings.


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Offline  Re: Second base
#3

Posted: August 10, 2017, 9:54 AM Post
Posts: 221
Location: Milwaukee
I believe the Brewers have a chance at the postseason, I don't think they'll make it but they have a chance, and I still think Villar is the obvious choice with Perez getting time there too if they're not going external with another 2b.

When Sogard was injured Villar slashed 288/323/679 for 16 games then over the past 10 games he's had 3 hitless starts and has been on the bench the rest. He needs to play. It doesn't help when he puts together a good AB last night only to be rung up on garbage.


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Offline  Re: Second base
#4

Posted: August 10, 2017, 10:15 AM Post
Posts: 1440
Location: Madison, WI
Yea it sure seems the magic has worn off Sogard. After what he did before injury you couldn't not give him another crack at it. So kind of the only hope now is to roll with Villar and hope to catch a hot streak. If Shaw is back you can use Perez vs lefties at 2B since that's where Villar seems most lost right now.


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Offline  Re: Second base
#5

Posted: August 10, 2017, 10:27 AM Post
Posts: 916
Why not the .360 hitting infielder in the minors? Dejesus..... I guess performance doesn't warrant an opportunity. But, man, that Villar sure has potential! So obvious from watching him day in, day out. The season is early; he'll cone around.......


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Offline  Re: Second base
#6

Posted: August 10, 2017, 10:42 AM Post
Posts: 1440
Location: Madison, WI
rickh150 said:
Why not the .360 hitting infielder in the minors? Dejesus..... I guess performance doesn't warrant an opportunity. But, man, that Villar sure has potential! So obvious from watching him day in, day out. The season is early; he'll cone around.......


Hey I'd give it a shot, try anything at this point. I assume Sogard can't be optioned so if you think he's done, let him go and roll the dice on Dejesus then and hope you can get a Sogard lite hot streak from him.


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Offline  Re: Second base
#7

Posted: August 10, 2017, 10:42 AM Post
Posts: 221
Location: Milwaukee
rickh150 said:
Why not the .360 hitting infielder in the minors? Dejesus..... I guess performance doesn't warrant an opportunity. But, man, that Villar sure has potential! So obvious from watching him day in, day out. The season is early; he'll cone around.......

Provide evidence the 30yr old DeJesus is a better talent than the 26yr old Villar as well as provide evidence that he's going to outproduce him immediately and for the remainder of the season...

DeJesus has never had a better season than he's having right now as a 30yr old in AAA (3.5yrs older than age for level). He's a product of CS/PCL. He's had over 420 MLB AB the past 2yrs combined posting 248/311/653.

Did you have the same sarcastic responses last year about Villar's talent from watching him day in and day out? Doubt it


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Offline  Re: Second base
#8

Posted: August 10, 2017, 10:50 AM Post
Posts: 6107
Location: Kenosha, WI
rickh150 said:
Why not the .360 hitting infielder in the minors? Dejesus..... I guess performance doesn't warrant an opportunity. But, man, that Villar sure has potential! So obvious from watching him day in, day out. The season is early; he'll cone around.......


Yah Sogard, De Jesus, and Cooper trio in the infield would be pretty intense...ly garbage. But hey...AAA stats.

I really don't have a problem dumping Sogard for Ivan because I am betting they would be a wash. I also bet you had the same attitude about Jean Segura too. Gosh that guy just didn't have potential! Villar showed that potential last year. Sorry if you want to disregard that for journeyman Ivan DeJesus Jr. playing well in Colorado.


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Offline  Re: Second base
#9

Posted: August 10, 2017, 10:56 AM Post
Posts: 173
Location: New Berlin, WI
I think the answer at 2b is going to be a very low cost outside acquisition rental type. It's possible DeJesus is on a Sogard like tear and could stay hot for an extended amount of time down the stretch. I think the coaches would have a better feel for it and switch him and Sogard if that was the case. Sogard and DeJesus were both performing well when they picked Sogard to come up and help out, clearly that was done for a reason. I think many are duped by Sogard's hot stretch. Phillips and Brinson are both way way more talented than either player and neither came up from great AAA numbers and had the immediate success Sogard had. Sogard's time at the mlb level is done. His hot stretch is over, he's back to being an AA caliber talent and doesn't warrant a 25 man spot. If we look outside at a kinsler or lowrie(or even an outfielder to let Perez take 2b full time), you can bet that Sogard is the one that goes.


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Online  Re: Second base
#10

Posted: August 10, 2017, 11:12 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 520
Location: La Crosse
Humans Need Water said:
rickh150 said:
Why not the .360 hitting infielder in the minors? Dejesus..... I guess performance doesn't warrant an opportunity. But, man, that Villar sure has potential! So obvious from watching him day in, day out. The season is early; he'll cone around.......

Provide evidence the 30yr old DeJesus is a better talent than the 26yr old Villar as well as provide evidence that he's going to outproduce him immediately and for the remainder of the season...

DeJesus has never had a better season than he's having right now as a 30yr old in AAA (3.5yrs older than age for level). He's a product of CS/PCL. He's had over 420 MLB AB the past 2yrs combined posting 248/311/653.

Did you have the same sarcastic responses last year about Villar's talent from watching him day in and day out? Doubt it

Well seeing that you posted his career numbers which are far better than Villar's season numbers, I think you already provided the evidence. 2nd base is a black hole right now, Stearns would be doing a disservice to not explore all options. If he doesn't perform, give him the leash that was given to Brinson and Phillips.


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Offline  Re: Second base
#11

Posted: August 10, 2017, 11:15 AM Post
Posts: 6107
Location: Kenosha, WI
Hey Keith I saw our post was deleted(for obvious reasons). Would you care to enlighten me on why Jean Segura's situation is a horrible comparison. I take it you don't think Villar has potential and will never turn it around correct?

The Jean Segura comparison is actually a pretty good one. Jean Segura had a .5 good year then played sub par for years. Jonathan Villar had an entire good year and now is playing subpar. Rick seemingly was taking a shot at the "Villar has potential" comment. In my opinion to think the potential isn't there is premature when he just proved it over an entire season. You mentioned Jean Segura's last two years, but not sure why that is relevant. That is the portion of the comparison(to Segura) that very well may still come true. I was not comparing Jonathan Villar to 2012-2017 Segura. I was comparing him to 2012-2015 Segura. Why can't Villar rebound and be a good player again like so many?


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Offline  Re: Second base
#12

Posted: August 10, 2017, 11:46 AM Post
Posts: 221
Location: Milwaukee
OnaBadger58 said:
Humans Need Water said:
rickh150 said:
Why not the .360 hitting infielder in the minors? Dejesus..... I guess performance doesn't warrant an opportunity. But, man, that Villar sure has potential! So obvious from watching him day in, day out. The season is early; he'll cone around.......

Provide evidence the 30yr old DeJesus is a better talent than the 26yr old Villar as well as provide evidence that he's going to outproduce him immediately and for the remainder of the season...

DeJesus has never had a better season than he's having right now as a 30yr old in AAA (3.5yrs older than age for level). He's a product of CS/PCL. He's had over 420 MLB AB the past 2yrs combined posting 248/311/653.

Did you have the same sarcastic responses last year about Villar's talent from watching him day in and day out? Doubt it

Well seeing that you posted his career numbers which are far better than Villar's season numbers, I think you already provided the evidence. 2nd base is a black hole right now, Stearns would be doing a disservice to not explore all options. If he doesn't perform, give him the leash that was given to Brinson and Phillips.

I posted nobody's career numbers, so we'll start with that lie.

DeJesus' numbers I listed were combined between the past 2yrs and yes, they are better than Villar's current slash line, but the only people calling that evidence are those with their heads buried in the sand. You act like that 248/311/653 is insanely better than Villar, who prior to going to the bench 12 days ago was slashing 223/284/632. Villar's numbers the past 2yrs absolutely destroy what DeJesus did the past 2yrs soooooooo there's that. Not to mention Villar is 4yrs younger, steals a ton of bases, has more power and has a MUCH higher ceiling.

You can go ahead and think/believe that DeJesus is the better option but when doing so maybe lets at least attempt to factor in all variables instead of his current AAA line, which also has hiccups in it given it's CS/PCL and he's 3.5yrs old for level.


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Offline  Re: Second base
#13

Posted: August 10, 2017, 12:01 PM Post
Posts: 916
Humans Need Water said:
rickh150 said:
Why not the .360 hitting infielder in the minors? Dejesus..... I guess performance doesn't warrant an opportunity. But, man, that Villar sure has potential! So obvious from watching him day in, day out. The season is early; he'll cone around.......

Provide evidence the 30yr old DeJesus is a better talent than the 26yr old Villar as well as provide evidence that he's going to outproduce him immediately and for the remainder of the season...

DeJesus has never had a better season than he's having right now as a 30yr old in AAA (3.5yrs older than age for level). He's a product of CS/PCL. He's had over 420 MLB AB the past 2yrs combined posting 248/311/653.

Did you have the same sarcastic responses last year about Villar's talent from watching him day in and day out? Doubt it



I was negative on Villar last year too.... countless, well more like 27, unforced errors on bases. Thrown out at third inexcusably.... He was really good at the plate, but his careless antics ran us out of so many innings until the benching. I would have welcomed a trade, much like Gomez before him.


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Offline  Re: Second base
#14

Posted: August 10, 2017, 12:07 PM Post
Posts: 916
Humans Need Water said:
rickh150 said:
Why not the .360 hitting infielder in the minors? Dejesus..... I guess performance doesn't warrant an opportunity. But, man, that Villar sure has potential! So obvious from watching him day in, day out. The season is early; he'll cone around.......

Provide evidence the 30yr old DeJesus is a better talent than the 26yr old Villar as well as provide evidence that he's going to outproduce him immediately and for the remainder of the season...

DeJesus has never had a better season than he's having right now as a 30yr old in AAA (3.5yrs older than age for level). He's a product of CS/PCL. He's had over 420 MLB AB the past 2yrs combined posting 248/311/653.

Did you have the same sarcastic responses last year about Villar's talent from watching him day in and day out? Doubt it


Provide evidence? That's the point! I can't! He doesn't get called up! His Numbers are staggering! The guys above him are performing awfully! If I'm Dejesus, I ask for a trade and say "thanks for letting me play at AAA, but you should have let me know that how well i perform simply doesn't matter".......


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Offline  Re: Second base
#15

Posted: August 10, 2017, 12:16 PM Post
Posts: 2156
Not sure why Humans Need Water is getting so upset about this. Yeah, Villar has a better ceiling and had a nice year in 2016 but right now the Brewers are still in it and Villar stinks, you can't just ignore that at this point in the season. I don't think anybody is saying Dejesus is the long term answer, just that right now the Brewers need better play at the 2B position and they have no other options at the big league level. I'm not usually a change for change sake type of guy but the Brewers are at a crossroads now and desperate times call for desperate measures.


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Offline  Re: Second base
#16

Posted: August 10, 2017, 12:22 PM Post
Posts: 5653
Outlander said:
I'm not usually a change for change sake type of guy but the Brewers are at a crossroads now and desperate times call for desperate measures.


Did someone say something about "desperate measures????" Hey, Stearns, you have my number.

Image


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Offline  Re: Second base
#17

Posted: August 10, 2017, 12:30 PM Post
Posts: 1440
Location: Madison, WI
Craiger as the player/manager? We need some scrappiness.


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Offline  Re: Second base
#18

Posted: August 10, 2017, 12:30 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 6139
As long as Villar STOPS hitting in the lead off spot, I'm fine with giving him an extended look again, but only if we have exhausted all our options. (DeJesus, possible under the radar trade, etc.)

Continuing to plug him into that #1 spot is just plain crazy at this point.


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Online  Re: Second base
#19

Posted: August 10, 2017, 12:59 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 520
Location: La Crosse
Humans Need Water said:
OnaBadger58 said:
Humans Need Water said:
Provide evidence the 30yr old DeJesus is a better talent than the 26yr old Villar as well as provide evidence that he's going to outproduce him immediately and for the remainder of the season...

DeJesus has never had a better season than he's having right now as a 30yr old in AAA (3.5yrs older than age for level). He's a product of CS/PCL. He's had over 420 MLB AB the past 2yrs combined posting 248/311/653.

Did you have the same sarcastic responses last year about Villar's talent from watching him day in and day out? Doubt it

Well seeing that you posted his career numbers which are far better than Villar's season numbers, I think you already provided the evidence. 2nd base is a black hole right now, Stearns would be doing a disservice to not explore all options. If he doesn't perform, give him the leash that was given to Brinson and Phillips.

I posted nobody's career numbers, so we'll start with that lie.

DeJesus' numbers I listed were combined between the past 2yrs and yes, they are better than Villar's current slash line, but the only people calling that evidence are those with their heads buried in the sand. You act like that 248/311/653 is insanely better than Villar, who prior to going to the bench 12 days ago was slashing 223/284/632. Villar's numbers the past 2yrs absolutely destroy what DeJesus did the past 2yrs soooooooo there's that. Not to mention Villar is 4yrs younger, steals a ton of bases, has more power and has a MUCH higher ceiling.

You can go ahead and think/believe that DeJesus is the better option but when doing so maybe lets at least attempt to factor in all variables instead of his current AAA line, which also has hiccups in it given it's CS/PCL and he's 3.5yrs old for level.

Love how you start a post about telling a lie and then assume that I think/believe DeJesus is a better option, when I merely pointed out he is an option. I said Stearns is doing a disservice if he isn't exploring all options. I don't care what Villar did in the last "two years", that he's 4 years younger, or that his ceiling is higher because none of that helps for right now. And if you look at the standings, right now the Brewers are 1.5 games out. I'm fine with giving Villar playing time next year, but right now he is huge liability.


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Offline  Re: Second base
#20

Posted: August 10, 2017, 1:02 PM Post

Roster Guru
Posts: 2041
tmwiese55 said:
I assume Sogard can't be optioned so if you think he's done, let him go and roll the dice on Dejesus then and hope you can get a Sogard lite hot streak from him.

sogard has one minor league option remaining, but he has more than five years of mlb service time (he did entering 2017 spring training). if the brewers tried to option sogard, he'd have the right to refuse the assignment (voiding the rest of his contract) and select free agency. given how close it is to september roster expansion, sogard would be foolish to refuse the optional assignment.


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