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Brewers Trade for Neil Walker

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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 13, 2017, 3:58 PM Post
Posts: 413
Location: Milwaukee
clancyphile said:
Walker, if nothing else, provides an IF bat, keeps Hernan Perez as a 4th OF. Villar/Sogard can split time. Or maybe Arcia gets time off to keep hot hands in...

Yep. He doesn't have to start 5-6 games per week at 2b. If Villar is hitting and having great ABs and a consistently good approach then he's playing because he's more dynamic, younger and controlled for 3yrs. And Villar has been doing that for over a month now when starting games and has looked great the past 4 games shortening up his swing and focusing on that middle approach allowing him to stay balanced for pulling/pushing. Walker can play 2b/3b providing a quality switch hitting bat. If Sogard stays with the team he's a lefty contact guy off the bench who can cover 3 IF spots. When Arcia gets his occasional day off it should be Villar SS and Walker 2b (when Shaw is in lineup). Perez should mainly backup the OF but still get occasional play in the IF.

Walker adds quality depth to the IF and allows for more options. He's had a productive career while spending half his games in a couple of the worst hitters parks (Pitt/NYM) compared to Kinsler and Phillips who have been in much more hitter friendly parks.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 13, 2017, 7:48 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
Boomer5 said:
It's going to be a top 30 prospect if the Mets are picking up some salary.


He is owed $5mil over two months. That is a lot of money...a lot. They have to pick up money just to make him a salary dump.

i think the worst case prospect wise is Clint Coulter, this is a salary dump for the Mets.


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Online  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 13, 2017, 9:11 PM Post
Posts: 7333
That would fit the trend. Anyone who would be exposed to Rule 5 after this season.


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Online  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 13, 2017, 9:33 PM Post
Posts: 2958
Location: New Berlin, WI
FVBrewerFan said:
That would fit the trend. Anyone who would be exposed to Rule 5 after this season.


I doubt this trade is completed before the rule 5 draft. They have until mid February, I believe rule 5 draft will be before that. I don't think anyone should worry about a substantial return for the Mets.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 13, 2017, 9:57 PM Post
Posts: 2581
Maybe the Mets want to make sure the player isn't picked up in the rule 5 draft kind of like how the Pina trade wasn't finalized until after the draft.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 6:31 AM Post
Posts: 11636
The Brewers have a critical road trip coming up. Walker was likely acquired to see if he could give them an offensive spark heading into that trip. If they lose a lot of ground, I would expect that Walker will be moved again before end of August. Not that Walker wouldn't be a bad target in FA this winter.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 8:30 AM Post
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Equally likely that the Mets don't want to have to turn around and protect him in the Rule 5, wastes a slot.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 8:30 AM Post
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I didn't have time to run through the whole thread but saw some people wanting us to either go for it with big trades or don't do anything and sell off any short term assets (if we have any). I think DS is doing the right thing by making little moves to see if he can help out a team that is overachieving. I strongly think we shouldn't be doing anything drastic. Stick to the plan and make our move in a few years. Anything prior to that is could put everything at risk for the future. As William Wallace said in Braveheart.... HOOOOOLD, HOOOOOOLD, HOOOOOOOLD


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 10:35 AM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
The Brewers have a critical road trip coming up. Walker was likely acquired to see if he could give them an offensive spark heading into that trip. If they lose a lot of ground, I would expect that Walker will be moved again before end of August. Not that Walker wouldn't be a bad target in FA this winter.


I thought about this recently as well...what are everyone's thoughts on resigning him? He's had a down year, but what would his potential free agent contract look like? He's been a solid left handed bat for his career, has some pop, can play all over the infield. He is going to turn 32 in September, which is slightly scary I guess. Thoughts?

If we did sign him, that pushes Villar into a backup role (but probably still starting 2-3 times a week as Walker can move around).


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 10:39 AM Post
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I'd be a fan of bringing Walker back for a 1-2 year contract. 3 max. There is plenty of room to spend the next few years.

I think the issue is, depending on what Neil wants, this is his last year to cash in on a 3-5 year contract.

I'd pay a higher dollar value to make it a 2-year contract.


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Online  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 10:44 AM Post
Posts: 2958
Location: New Berlin, WI
brwrsfan said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
The Brewers have a critical road trip coming up. Walker was likely acquired to see if he could give them an offensive spark heading into that trip. If they lose a lot of ground, I would expect that Walker will be moved again before end of August. Not that Walker wouldn't be a bad target in FA this winter.


I thought about this recently as well...what are everyone's thoughts on resigning him? He's had a down year, but what would his potential free agent contract look like? He's been a solid left handed bat for his career, has some pop, can play all over the infield. He is going to turn 32 in September, which is slightly scary I guess. Thoughts?

If we did sign him, that pushes Villar into a backup role (but probably still starting 2-3 times a week as Walker can move around).


We have Villar currently and a few good 2b options coming through the system. I would roll into next year with Villar on the inside track for a starting job and a veteran or 2 on minor league contracts as depth in ST. If Villar fails, Dubon or veteran or Perez would fill that gap next year. By 2019, I would like to think Hiura or Diaz will have moved up in the system and start getting considered for the MLB 2b role. Signing Walker to a 2 year deal could work if you had a ton of faith in him and none in Villar. If he had a good year, that contract could be tradeable after the first year if Hiura or Diaz are pounding on the door. I personally would rather role with Villar and our prospects and use that payroll on pitching.


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Online  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 11:19 AM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
What is everyone seeing in Dubon that I'm missing just by looking at his stats? Seems to get on base a bit and some steals(but gets caught a bit too). Other than that he has zero power and his BA is just alright. What screams starting MLB two bagger?


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 11:24 AM Post
Posts: 969
I like Dubon as a prospect, but more as a backup if Arcia or our 2b (Diaz, Hiura, Walker) go on the DL. It's nice to have a quality guy who can fill in.

Now, he only has 17 extra base hits. He has a nice frame and I think he will fill out so I expect these numbers to improve.


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Online  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 11:30 AM Post
Posts: 2958
Location: New Berlin, WI
Brew4U said:
What is everyone seeing in Dubon that I'm missing just by looking at his stats? Seems to get on base a bit and some steals(but gets caught a bit too). Other than that he has zero power and his BA is just alright. What screams starting MLB two bagger?


Nothing really screams starting 2b. He's a solid hitter with speed and plays good defense. His career minor league slash line is 299/349/404/753. He's probably more of a Perez type guy in that super utility role when he fully develops. His career SB% is around 75%, which is very good if that percentage translates to MLB. Dubon isn't nearly as dynamic as Villar or have nearly the upside of Diaz/Hiura, he could be a decent stopgap option if Villar fails in 2018 rather than spending a bunch on 2b.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 11:32 AM Post
Posts: 212
I see Dubon as the eventual replacement for Hernan Perez. A super utility guy. Better Ave/OBP than Perez but significantly less power.

Agree with those suggesting resigning Walker but only to a two year or less deal.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 11:35 AM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
Brew4U said:
What is everyone seeing in Dubon that I'm missing just by looking at his stats? Seems to get on base a bit and some steals(but gets caught a bit too). Other than that he has zero power and his BA is just alright. What screams starting MLB two bagger?


Nothing really screams starting 2b. He's a solid hitter with speed and plays good defense. His career minor league slash line is 299/349/404/753. He's probably more of a Perez type guy in that super utility role when he fully develops. His career SB% is around 75%, which is very good if that percentage translates to MLB. Dubon isn't nearly as dynamic as Villar or have nearly the upside of Diaz/Hiura, he could be a decent stopgap option if Villar fails in 2018 rather than spending a bunch on 2b.


I've kinda gotten into this debate on other threads/twitter/boards, etc. but if one thinks that 2B is a need, why not overspend on 2B? This assumes that Mark is willing to pay his usual $100+ million on the roster, but it's time to overpay a few guys hopefully on short deals to fill short-term roster holes. We can dump a ton of money into relief pitching, maybe a starting pitcher if we feel it's an upgrade, or 2B. Nowhere else justifies $ spent right now.

If Walker is willing to stay for 2 (3 max) years then it's a perfect situation. If he's truly washed up then you go back to Villar or Dubon but you're no worse off than you were before because adding Walker to the payroll for 2-3 years is not prohibitive of keeping any player we value over that timeframe and probably doesn't stop us from adding anything at positions of need.


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Online  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 11:54 AM Post
Posts: 2958
Location: New Berlin, WI
bill hAll Star said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Nothing really screams starting 2b. He's a solid hitter with speed and plays good defense. His career minor league slash line is 299/349/404/753. He's probably more of a Perez type guy in that super utility role when he fully develops. His career SB% is around 75%, which is very good if that percentage translates to MLB. Dubon isn't nearly as dynamic as Villar or have nearly the upside of Diaz/Hiura, he could be a decent stopgap option if Villar fails in 2018 rather than spending a bunch on 2b.


I've kinda gotten into this debate on other threads/twitter/boards, etc. but if one thinks that 2B is a need, why not overspend on 2B? This assumes that Mark is willing to pay his usual $100+ million on the roster, but it's time to overpay a few guys hopefully on short deals to fill short-term roster holes. We can dump a ton of money into relief pitching, maybe a starting pitcher if we feel it's an upgrade, or 2B. Nowhere else justifies $ spent right now.

If Walker is willing to stay for 2 (3 max) years then it's a perfect situation. If he's truly washed up then you go back to Villar or Dubon but you're no worse off than you were before because adding Walker to the payroll for 2-3 years is not prohibitive of keeping any player we value over that timeframe and probably doesn't stop us from adding anything at positions of need.


It's more of an opportunity cost thing. Money spent on 2b is money that can't be spent on pitching. Imagine where this team could be if all else remained the same, Villar become a solid 2b option(or someone internal did) but we add a TOR pitcher and rock solid LH setup man in free agency heading into 2018? It's harder to make moves for impact talent when you $5 and $10 million your payroll away. We need to have as many solid guys on minimum and arbitration contracts as possible, and ideally only having one or two holes and being able to fill it with expensive impact talent to push us over the edge rather than back end starting pitching.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 12:05 PM Post
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RobDeer 45 said:
I didn't have time to run through the whole thread but saw some people wanting us to either go for it with big trades or don't do anything and sell off any short term assets (if we have any). I think DS is doing the right thing by making little moves to see if he can help out a team that is overachieving. I strongly think we shouldn't be doing anything drastic. Stick to the plan and make our move in a few years. Anything prior to that is could put everything at risk for the future. As William Wallace said in Braveheart.... HOOOOOLD, HOOOOOOLD, HOOOOOOOLD


But WW died at the end too... and lost the war... Not that I disagree with your intent, but just sayin... [wink]


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 12:21 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
bill hAll Star said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Nothing really screams starting 2b. He's a solid hitter with speed and plays good defense. His career minor league slash line is 299/349/404/753. He's probably more of a Perez type guy in that super utility role when he fully develops. His career SB% is around 75%, which is very good if that percentage translates to MLB. Dubon isn't nearly as dynamic as Villar or have nearly the upside of Diaz/Hiura, he could be a decent stopgap option if Villar fails in 2018 rather than spending a bunch on 2b.


I've kinda gotten into this debate on other threads/twitter/boards, etc. but if one thinks that 2B is a need, why not overspend on 2B? This assumes that Mark is willing to pay his usual $100+ million on the roster, but it's time to overpay a few guys hopefully on short deals to fill short-term roster holes. We can dump a ton of money into relief pitching, maybe a starting pitcher if we feel it's an upgrade, or 2B. Nowhere else justifies $ spent right now.

If Walker is willing to stay for 2 (3 max) years then it's a perfect situation. If he's truly washed up then you go back to Villar or Dubon but you're no worse off than you were before because adding Walker to the payroll for 2-3 years is not prohibitive of keeping any player we value over that timeframe and probably doesn't stop us from adding anything at positions of need.


It's more of an opportunity cost thing. Money spent on 2b is money that can't be spent on pitching. Imagine where this team could be if all else remained the same, Villar become a solid 2b option(or someone internal did) but we add a TOR pitcher and rock solid LH setup man in free agency heading into 2018? It's harder to make moves for impact talent when you $5 and $10 million your payroll away. We need to have as many solid guys on minimum and arbitration contracts as possible, and ideally only having one or two holes and being able to fill it with expensive impact talent to push us over the edge rather than back end starting pitching.


I agree going forward, but right now the payroll will be somewhere between $45 and $65 million for 2018 and 2019 for 18-22 players depending on if we non-tender Vogt or most of the relief options (Torres, Hughes, etc). Of course, plenty will change, but the fact remains that we'll have 85% of the roster solved for $50-60 million for the next 2 seasons.

Now, I wouldn't have a problem overpaying one of the top pitchers on the market just if we can, but the years likely will bleed into the years that it matters because a player like that comes at 5 or 6 years of commitment. That's probably even fine for one guy. The only names out there are Cobb, Lynn, Chatwood, Darvish (probably not), maybe a few others...but not many names that will fall to us and come at the right price.

Point being, if we can fill the bullpen, maybe a starter, probably 2B with guys that will only be 1-2, maybe a 3rd year committment (this assumes Mark wants to pay his usual $100-110 million competing price, then overpaying Walker to hang around for 2 years does not affect any of the desires that you mention above.

You could pay Walker 2 years, $30 million (total) and still have plenty of money to sign the top setup man on the market and maybe buy a cheaper starter or 1-2 more relievers if you so choose.

Also trading for guys that cost a bit more is an option.


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Offline  Re: Brewers Trade for Neil Walker
Posted: August 14, 2017, 1:43 PM Post
Posts: 4221
bill hAll Star said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Brew4U said:
What is everyone seeing in Dubon that I'm missing just by looking at his stats? Seems to get on base a bit and some steals(but gets caught a bit too). Other than that he has zero power and his BA is just alright. What screams starting MLB two bagger?


Nothing really screams starting 2b. He's a solid hitter with speed and plays good defense. His career minor league slash line is 299/349/404/753. He's probably more of a Perez type guy in that super utility role when he fully develops. His career SB% is around 75%, which is very good if that percentage translates to MLB. Dubon isn't nearly as dynamic as Villar or have nearly the upside of Diaz/Hiura, he could be a decent stopgap option if Villar fails in 2018 rather than spending a bunch on 2b.


I've kinda gotten into this debate on other threads/twitter/boards, etc. but if one thinks that 2B is a need, why not overspend on 2B? This assumes that Mark is willing to pay his usual $100+ million on the roster, but it's time to overpay a few guys hopefully on short deals to fill short-term roster holes. We can dump a ton of money into relief pitching, maybe a starting pitcher if we feel it's an upgrade, or 2B. Nowhere else justifies $ spent right now.

If Walker is willing to stay for 2 (3 max) years then it's a perfect situation. If he's truly washed up then you go back to Villar or Dubon but you're no worse off than you were before because adding Walker to the payroll for 2-3 years is not prohibitive of keeping any player we value over that timeframe and probably doesn't stop us from adding anything at positions of need.


I don't think overpaying is ever a good idea. All it does is frustrate fans and make others on the team who actually earn their paycheck want more when their time comes. If we overpay for someone how can we expect anyone else to accept fair market value? Especially if it is signing one of our own to an extension. They would look at what some outsider got an be offended they aren't being offered the same.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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