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How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?

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Offline  How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#1

Posted: September 07, 2017, 9:41 AM Post
Posts: 4345
It can't get much worse
Tom‏Verified account @Haudricourt 22m22 minutes ago
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#Brewers challenge over final 22 games: Find some offense. They have scored 177 runs in second half, fewest among 30 MLB clubs.


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#2

Posted: September 07, 2017, 10:01 AM Post
Posts: 1700
Location: Madison, WI
Stat doesn't surprise me at all with how it's been.

I think most of us thought early on that the pitching would end up being their demise, who'd have guess the O. Even with some regression from Thames/Shaw types who started hot we would have thought Braun getting healthy, Villar coming back to life, Broxton/Santana being better would balance that out and they'd have a good O all year. Very surprising it went this way.


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#3

Posted: September 07, 2017, 10:54 AM Post
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Good article on Brew Crew Ball suggesting we get ready to see a lot of K's for years to come.

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2017/9/7/16265944/like-it-or-not-the-milwaukee-brewers-just-dont-care-about-strikeouts


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#4

Posted: September 07, 2017, 11:41 AM Post
Posts: 128
At some point, you just have to say that the offense isn't going to get markedly better with this collection of players. I think better personnel is needed going forward to win divisions and championships. I think we are who we are for the remainder of the season.


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#5

Posted: September 07, 2017, 11:46 AM Post
Posts: 507
Location: Oshkosh
What I'm really worried about is our walk rate has plummeted this year. I thought we'd be seeing a different, better approach, and walking more after what I saw last year, but it's reverted right back to where we used to be.

You can't lead the league in strikeouts and not walk, that's a lot of terrible at bats.


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#6

Posted: September 07, 2017, 11:59 AM Post
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Don't have time to look but I think they are seeing a lot of pitches. Just not getting a walk or a hit as an end result.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#7

Posted: September 07, 2017, 12:07 PM Post
Posts: 507
Location: Oshkosh
I should note, I'm not saying last year's offense was good in any way. It was one of the worst we've had in years, but that was more due to lack of talent. We were in year 1 of a rebuild and we had Ramon Flores, Alex Pressley, Colin Walsh, Kirk Nieuwenhuis and other simlar players getting a ton of ABs. I thought it was going to be more of a system wide approach change that would pay dividends down the road.


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#8

Posted: September 07, 2017, 12:11 PM Post
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Any offense that features guys like Broxton and Perez will never be that consistent. They both get on base about as much as I do from my lazy boy. It's brutal having them in the lineup consistently. Just kills any momentum a lineup would ever get. Sure they have hot spells but they definitely do not outweigh their cold spells.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#9

Posted: September 07, 2017, 12:23 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
Any offense that features guys like Broxton and Perez will never be that consistent. They both get on base about as much as I do from my lazy boy. It's brutal having them in the lineup consistently. Just kills any momentum a lineup would ever get. Sure they have hot spells but they definitely do not outweigh their cold spells.


Perez, for better or worse, has been the most consistent player the Brewers have had this year. His average has been stuck at .265 (give or take a few) since about the end of May. If Perez is in the lineup he is going 1-4 with a strikeout. 70-30 chance. Consistently great? No. Consistently gets on base at a high clip? No. But he does what he does and he does it every day.

Broxton, on the other hand, is the example you are looking for.


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#10

Posted: September 07, 2017, 12:30 PM Post
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homer said:
Don't have time to look but I think they are seeing a lot of pitches. Just not getting a walk or a hit as an end result.


Also don't have time to look, but curious what their OBP is with 2 strikes. As you said, I think for the most part they seem to see enough pitches. But then chase once they have 2 strikes. More walks are a cure to so many problems.


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#11

Posted: September 07, 2017, 12:45 PM Post
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Travis Shaw (2nd half- .235/.313/.451/.764) has cooled down greatly. Thames(2nd half- .210/.294/.399/.692) being pretty much a turd and Braun having his own issues. It's a wonder how this team is only a couple games out of a playoff spot.

This team can have light hitting in two spots for the defense they get out of those spots and that is shortstop and catcher. Manny Pina is a pretty good player in his role as is Orlando Arica. They NEED to figure out second base and center field and in a hurry. I don't know, maybe we dump Shaw/Thames this offseason to someone else because he's turned back into a pumpkin? Always too good to be true for the Brewers.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#12

Posted: September 07, 2017, 12:51 PM Post
Posts: 615
Location: New Berlin, WI
I feel like Counsel needs to stop tinkering with the lineup immediately. Go back to a standard lineup, except maybe move Thames to 6th and have walker bat 2nd most days. Villar/Sogard, Walker, Braun, Shaw, Santana, Thames, Pina, Arcia. On days that Broxton starts in CF, move Thames back up to 2nd(Walker/Villar/Sogard lead off) and pina up one. Getting fancy with the lineup isn't going to do anybody any good. And don't listen to these people that are obsessed with sac bunting, stick to your guns. We didn't get to this point playing small ball and trying to scratch out a run here or there. Guys need to get back to a patient approach at the plate and working counts. That's the biggest thing I feel like I've noticed is generally less patience at the plate. Lately guys try swinging at every strike and not necessarily a good pitch to hit.


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#13

Posted: September 07, 2017, 12:52 PM Post
Posts: 128
Thames is having a statistically worse season than Carter last season. I would look to dump him in the offseason and look to upgrade at the position or maybe consider Aguilar there.


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#14

Posted: September 07, 2017, 1:01 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
Villar/Sogard, Walker, Braun, Shaw, Santana, Thames, Pina, Arcia.


There is no CF in that lineup, and no I don't count Villar as one.

That said I agree, quit trying to get cute/lucky by batting Perez first or putting Villar in CF. Set a lineup like we did in the first half. We are what we are, either the stability will help or it won't. Either way if the middle of the order doesn't wake up, it won't matter what the order is.

I am not Shea Vucinich


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#15

Posted: September 07, 2017, 1:15 PM Post
Posts: 615
Location: New Berlin, WI
BuckyBrewer61 said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Villar/Sogard, Walker, Braun, Shaw, Santana, Thames, Pina, Arcia.


There is no CF in that lineup, and no I don't count Villar as one.

That said I agree, quit trying to get cute/lucky by batting Perez first or putting Villar in CF. Set a lineup like we did in the first half. We are what we are, either the stability will help or it won't. Either way if the middle of the order doesn't wake up, it won't matter what the order is.


Yeah I'm aware of the CF thing. I know he wants to keep Villar in there, if he's going to play Villar in CF then this should be the lineup. I personally think a more balanced lineup would be something like Villar/Walker/Sogard, Braun, Shaw, Santana, Thames, Pina, Broxton, Arcia, P. I also think Counsel should work to get Aguilar in the lineup a bit more often and stop playing Walker at 1b. That guy has single-handedly won us some games on days he starts.


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#16

Posted: September 07, 2017, 1:28 PM Post
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shanedog19 said:
Thames is having a statistically worse season than Carter last season. I would look to dump him in the offseason and look to upgrade at the position or maybe consider Aguilar there.


Is he though?


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#17

Posted: September 07, 2017, 1:37 PM Post
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stoutdude04 said:
shanedog19 said:
Thames is having a statistically worse season than Carter last season. I would look to dump him in the offseason and look to upgrade at the position or maybe consider Aguilar there.


Is he though?


April is the only thing keeping Thames from being worse than Carter last year.

Carter - .222/.321/.499
Thames from May-now - .207/.316/.429

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#18

Posted: September 07, 2017, 1:39 PM Post
Posts: 150
I'd go Arcia, Phillips, Braun, Shaw, Santana, Pina, Thames, Villar


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#19

Posted: September 07, 2017, 1:42 PM Post
Posts: 5865
Brew4U said:
Travis Shaw (2nd half- .235/.313/.451/.764) has cooled down greatly. Thames(2nd half- .210/.294/.399/.692) being pretty much a turd and Braun having his own issues. It's a wonder how this team is only a couple games out of a playoff spot.


That's it in a nutshell. If Braun, Shaw, Thames, and Santana are supposed to be the 4 best hitters, none of them have been hot down the stretch. In fact, I think Braun has a lot to do with this. If he hits the way he has in the past, maybe that sparks the guys in front of him and behind him.

I said it a while ago, but I would be more than happy if someone through a good deal to us for virtually any of our position players not named Arcia.


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Offline  Re: How bad has the offense been in the 2nd half?
#20

Posted: September 07, 2017, 2:06 PM Post
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liveforoctober said:
Brew4U said:
Any offense that features guys like Broxton and Perez will never be that consistent. They both get on base about as much as I do from my lazy boy. It's brutal having them in the lineup consistently. Just kills any momentum a lineup would ever get. Sure they have hot spells but they definitely do not outweigh their cold spells.

Perez, for better or worse, has been the most consistent player the Brewers have had this year. His average has been stuck at .265 (give or take a few) since about the end of May. If Perez is in the lineup he is going 1-4 with a strikeout. 70-30 chance. Consistently great? No. Consistently gets on base at a high clip? No. But he does what he does and he does it every day.

Broxton, on the other hand, is the example you are looking for.

Perez treats taking a walk as if it comes with a case of herpes.

In his last 45 at bats, he's drawn a grand total of one walk. Since the All-Star break in 108 at bats, Perez has drawn only two walks.

I think he has talent as a hitter, but that dude flat out refuses to not just take walks, but even at least make pitchers throw him better pitches to hit.

The problem for Broxton isn't that he constantly swings at garbage like Perez does, but instead it's almost as if he has a hole in his bat by consistently swinging and missing on pitches in the strike zone.


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