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Nelson out for the year, will miss time in 2018 (post #150)

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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 11:11 AM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
Both of you guys have an opinion, he included some support for both of his opinions.

Having opinions is great. Telling someone that theirs shouldn't be shared is ridiculous.

KeithStone53151 said:
I know you were one of the people that thought the Brewers would tank mentally because we didn't acquire a SP. These players are professionals. They are paid big dollars to leave it all out on the diamond every day. If you watch the games, they have great attitudes pretty much all the time. They are also in the thick of a playoff chase and just swept the cubs in Wrigley. They are flying about as high as it gets right now, I can't imagine the choice of starting pitcher for one game is going to change that.


You do? Not saying you are wrong but I feel like you are. I was in favor of adding a pitcher if the price was right. I don't think I ever spoke on what you are referring to. Relief pitching, on the other hand, I've had quite a bit to say about it and the mishaps there.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 11:30 AM Post
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topper09er said:
I dont see any way we dont trot Garza out there. They will not bring an unknown into the middle of a pennant race and Garza is the safe choice. CC can do a pathetic interview after the game about how Garza helped get them where they are now blah blah blah. If anyone in the org has the marbles to go with a minor leaguer I will be pretty surprised.

Allowing Garza to start might be #3 in my all-time most hated starts of guys who will obviously suck, after Shaun Marcum 2011 NLCS game 6 and Jeff Poop-on game 4 2008 NLDS.


Garza has been pulled from the rotation in favor of Woodruff and Suter. Both are completely unproven at the MLB level.

Jungman didn't start for CS yesterday for a reason. He'll be starting.

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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 11:33 AM Post
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Why isn't Guerra in the discussion? He seemed to work out his control issues in CS and since he's returned he's hit 95 regularly in his couple of bullpen stints. Sure he gave up a couple runs, but both were in blowouts when he was just focusing on getting strikes.

Taking a chance that the 2016 Guerra shows up with his mid 90's fastball and his still very hard to hit splitter makes more sense to me than trotting Garza back out there.

He certainly should be able to go 5 good innings, as he was up to 90 pitches in his next to last start at CS.


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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 11:38 AM Post
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Brew4U said:
If they start Garza and it blows up again and costs them a playoff spot, both Stearns and Counsell will lose these players trust. At least if I was on the team and it happened, I wouldn't trust a damn thing they did if that scenario were to play itself out.


If Counsell starts Garza, and it costs them a playoff spot in the long run, Counsell should lose his job!!

Garza should not pitch again this year unless it is mop up innings one way or the other. He NEEDS to be done!

Any managerial decision to start Matt Garza should cost that manager his job.


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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 11:40 AM Post

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Never Outhustled said:
Jungman [sic] didn't start for CS yesterday for a reason.

that reason would be he pitched 6.0 innings on wednesday. had jungmann pitched yesterday, it would've been on three days' rest.


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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 11:43 AM Post
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Never Outhustled said:
topper09er said:
I dont see any way we dont trot Garza out there. They will not bring an unknown into the middle of a pennant race and Garza is the safe choice. CC can do a pathetic interview after the game about how Garza helped get them where they are now blah blah blah. If anyone in the org has the marbles to go with a minor leaguer I will be pretty surprised.

Allowing Garza to start might be #3 in my all-time most hated starts of guys who will obviously suck, after Shaun Marcum 2011 NLCS game 6 and Jeff Poop-on game 4 2008 NLDS.


Garza has been pulled from the rotation in favor of Woodruff and Suter. Both are completely unproven at the MLB level.

Jungman didn't start for CS yesterday for a reason. He'll be starting.


Woodruff and Suter both got their original starts due to injuries, then they became "established" They did just skip Garza but then ran him back out there again. I guess Jungmann was in the rotation previously so maybe they use him, I hope so.


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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 12:06 PM Post
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Adam McCalvy‏Verified account @AdamMcCalvy 8m8 minutes ago
More Brewers press notes are out; No add'l call-ups from Triple-A after SkySox season ended yesterday. Also still TBA for Wednesday's start.


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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 12:11 PM Post
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shanedog19 said:
Adam McCalvy‏Verified account @AdamMcCalvy 8m8 minutes ago
More Brewers press notes are out; No add'l call-ups from Triple-A after SkySox season ended yesterday. Also still TBA for Wednesday's start.


I would think they are trying to keep it as close to the vest as possible. Less time to prepare for whoever they choose.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Online  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 12:13 PM Post
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shanedog19 said:
Adam McCalvy‏Verified account @AdamMcCalvy 8m8 minutes ago
More Brewers press notes are out; No add'l call-ups from Triple-A after SkySox season ended yesterday. Also still TBA for Wednesday's start.


If that's the case, at this point I hope it's Suter, and he can provide an efficient 4-5 innings. It certainly is nice having a decent to good swing-man at the team's disposal. I have the sinking feeling that it will be Garza, though. If that's the case, I hope the team packs the bats they brought Saturday.


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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 12:30 PM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
shanedog19 said:
Adam McCalvy‏Verified account @AdamMcCalvy 8m8 minutes ago
More Brewers press notes are out; No add'l call-ups from Triple-A after SkySox season ended yesterday. Also still TBA for Wednesday's start.


If that's the case, at this point I hope it's Suter, and he can provide an efficient 4-5 innings. It certainly is nice having a decent to good swing-man at the team's disposal. I have the sinking feeling that it will be Garza, though. If that's the case, I hope the team packs the bats they brought Saturday.


I'm pretty sure Suter is going tomorrow, Weds is still in doubt.


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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 12:53 PM Post
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turborickey said:
Brew4U said:
If they start Garza and it blows up again and costs them a playoff spot, both Stearns and Counsell will lose these players trust. At least if I was on the team and it happened, I wouldn't trust a damn thing they did if that scenario were to play itself out.


If Counsell starts Garza, and it costs them a playoff spot in the long run, Counsell should lose his job!!

Garza should not pitch again this year unless it is mop up innings one way or the other. He NEEDS to be done!

Any managerial decision to start Matt Garza should cost that manager his job.


What if Garza starts and has a good outing? Does Counsell still lose his job or does he get to keep it? Just trying to keep track of all this.

I'm guessing players will lose all respect for CC if he names Garza starter, and he'll be fired. Then Garza has a good outing, players respect CC again and he is re-hired. Garza gets a 2nd start, gets rocked. Now CC, Stearns, Uecker, and Hank the Dog are all fired. Players lose respect for Ed Sedar and Jerry Augustine, but they keep their jobs. Finally, players DO respect the Italian Racing Sausage, but he's fired anyhow.


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Online  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 1:02 PM Post
Posts: 756
Location: New Berlin, WI
turborickey said:
Brew4U said:
If they start Garza and it blows up again and costs them a playoff spot, both Stearns and Counsell will lose these players trust. At least if I was on the team and it happened, I wouldn't trust a damn thing they did if that scenario were to play itself out.


If Counsell starts Garza, and it costs them a playoff spot in the long run, Counsell should lose his job!!

Garza should not pitch again this year unless it is mop up innings one way or the other. He NEEDS to be done!

Any managerial decision to start Matt Garza should cost that manager his job.


Counsel lose his job... [laughing]


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Online  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 1:06 PM Post
Posts: 756
Location: New Berlin, WI
JohnBriggs12 said:
Why isn't Guerra in the discussion? He seemed to work out his control issues in CS and since he's returned he's hit 95 regularly in his couple of bullpen stints. Sure he gave up a couple runs, but both were in blowouts when he was just focusing on getting strikes.

Taking a chance that the 2016 Guerra shows up with his mid 90's fastball and his still very hard to hit splitter makes more sense to me than trotting Garza back out there.

He certainly should be able to go 5 good innings, as he was up to 90 pitches in his next to last start at CS.


If gun to my head, those were the 2 options, I guess I'd probably go Guerra. That's far more of an indictment on Garza though. and thankfully we have other options. Guerra might be stretched to throw 90 pitches, but he hasn't even thrown one good inning since getting back to the majors. Asking for 5 is a big stretch.


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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 1:13 PM Post
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FVBrewerFan said:
turborickey said:
Brew4U said:
If they start Garza and it blows up again and costs them a playoff spot, both Stearns and Counsell will lose these players trust. At least if I was on the team and it happened, I wouldn't trust a damn thing they did if that scenario were to play itself out.


If Counsell starts Garza, and it costs them a playoff spot in the long run, Counsell should lose his job!!

Garza should not pitch again this year unless it is mop up innings one way or the other. He NEEDS to be done!

Any managerial decision to start Matt Garza should cost that manager his job.


What if Garza starts and has a good outing? Does Counsell still lose his job or does he get to keep it? Just trying to keep track of all this.

I'm guessing players will lose all respect for CC if he names Garza starter, and he'll be fired. Then Garza has a good outing, players respect CC again and he is re-hired. Garza gets a 2nd start, gets rocked. Now CC, Stearns, Uecker, and Hank the Dog are all fired. Players lose respect for Ed Sedar and Jerry Augustine, but they keep their jobs. Finally, players DO respect the Italian Racing Sausage, but he's fired anyhow.


Man are you a disrespectful person. Do you feel better about yourself now? Exactly the type of posts that cloud up these threads and make this place absolute crap. Either give your opinion or don't. But don't be a turd to others in the process. I'm not sure why that is such a hard thing for people these days.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 1:17 PM Post
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FVBrewerFan said:
turborickey said:
Brew4U said:
If they start Garza and it blows up again and costs them a playoff spot, both Stearns and Counsell will lose these players trust. At least if I was on the team and it happened, I wouldn't trust a damn thing they did if that scenario were to play itself out.


If Counsell starts Garza, and it costs them a playoff spot in the long run, Counsell should lose his job!!

Garza should not pitch again this year unless it is mop up innings one way or the other. He NEEDS to be done!

Any managerial decision to start Matt Garza should cost that manager his job.


What if Garza starts and has a good outing? Does Counsell still lose his job or does he get to keep it? Just trying to keep track of all this.

I'm guessing players will lose all respect for CC if he names Garza starter, and he'll be fired. Then Garza has a good outing, players respect CC again and he is re-hired. Garza gets a 2nd start, gets rocked. Now CC, Stearns, Uecker, and Hank the Dog are all fired. Players lose respect for Ed Sedar and Jerry Augustine, but they keep their jobs. Finally, players DO respect the Italian Racing Sausage, but he's fired anyhow.


My post was a knee jerk fan reaction, of course I know that would never happen.

Add to the fact that I think Counsell has an endless leash, and that makes it even more improbable...


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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 1:49 PM Post
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My post was a knee jerk fan reaction, of course I know that would never happen.


When you use exclamation marks and all caps, it certainly looks like you really believe what you said. If you didn't, perhaps put it in blue. [wink]


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Online  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 1:55 PM Post
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The solution is pretty easy. Garza (or honestly name a pitcher we have not already in the rotation, I don't care) can have his spot and basically Counsell can have the hook ready at any sign of trouble after the 2nd inning. Garza is fine for the 1st time around in the batting order this season.

We don't need to have a "starter" in the truest sense at this point in the season. We've got expanded rosters until we make the playoffs and in the playoffs will barely need a 4th starter -- if we do, a bullpen game is fine and we're playing with house money at that point.

If Counsell lets lower-velocity Guerra, AAAA Jungmann, or declining Garza take the rotation spot and pitches them like it's May 25th (let them pitch through a jam, get to 100 pitches) then he deserves to be flamed.

We've got like 3 or 4 turns in the rotation left. Why would we not do this? It would be silly to worry about who the "starter" is. Just pitch bullpen games with the expanded roster.

My hot take is that Nelson's injury barely hurts us [for this season]. It is a terrible loss for a full season. We can effectively pitch a bullpen game and get a "DH" with expanded rosters pinch hitting almost every time the pitcher slot comes around.


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Offline  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 2:05 PM Post
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bill hAll Star said:
The solution is pretty easy. Garza can have his spot and basically Counsell can have the hook ready at any sign of trouble after the 2nd inning. Garza is fine for the 1st time around in the batting order this season.

We don't need to have a "starter" in the truest sense at this point in the season. We've got expanded rosters until we make the playoffs and in the playoffs will barely need a 4th starter -- if we do, a bullpen game is fine and we're playing with house money at that point.

If Counsell lets lower-velocity Guerra, AAAA Jungmann, or declining Garza take the rotation spot and pitches them like it's May 25th (let them pitch through a jam, get to 100 pitches) then he deserves to be flamed.

We've got like 3 or 4 turns in the rotation left. Why would we not do this? It would be silly to worry about who the "starter" is. Just pitch bullpen games with the expanded roster.

My hot take is that Nelson's injury barely hurts us [for this season]. It is a terrible loss for a full season. We can effectively pitch a bullpen game and get a "DH" with expanded rosters pinch hitting almost every time the pitcher slot comes around.



Guerra's velocity has been back since returning. He was hitting 95 in both his relief outings. Question for him is getting ahead so he can use his out pitch.

Garza was on a short leash his last start and still allowed 6 runs.


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Online  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 2:06 PM Post
Posts: 756
Location: New Berlin, WI
bill hAll Star said:
The solution is pretty easy. Garza can have his spot and basically Counsell can have the hook ready at any sign of trouble after the 2nd inning. Garza is fine for the 1st time around in the batting order this season.

We don't need to have a "starter" in the truest sense at this point in the season. We've got expanded rosters until we make the playoffs and in the playoffs will barely need a 4th starter -- if we do, a bullpen game is fine and we're playing with house money at that point.

If Counsell lets lower-velocity Guerra, AAAA Jungmann, or declining Garza take the rotation spot and pitches them like it's May 25th (let them pitch through a jam, get to 100 pitches) then he deserves to be flamed.

We've got like 3 or 4 turns in the rotation left. Why would we not do this? It would be silly to worry about who the "starter" is. Just pitch bullpen games with the expanded roster.

My hot take is that Nelson's injury barely hurts us [for this season]. It is a terrible loss for a full season. We can effectively pitch a bullpen game and get a "DH" with expanded rosters pinch hitting almost every time the pitcher slot comes around.


I see your point on Nelson, but the quality of pitching we will see for 6-7 innings for the 3-4 turns he'd have remaining is far different with Nelson than a grab bag of Garza/Guerra/Jungmann/Wilkerson/Jeffress. It's nice having extra arms to allow for quick hooks, but I'd rather those guys get paid to have a dance contest in the bullpen than throwing meaningful pitches. And that doesn't even consider any postseason potential. Davies/Anderson were pitching anyway. Woodruff(who's still very young) would have been our 4. Now he's going to be relied on to be our 3rd pitcher in any postseason game...and we really don't have a 4th one. And you don't get expanded rosters in playoffs.

That also doesn't consider the risk that Nelson doesn't return fully to form from the injury. Shoulder injuries are worrisome to say the least.


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Online  Re: Nelson out for the year
Posted: September 11, 2017, 2:09 PM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
bill hAll Star said:
The solution is pretty easy. Garza can have his spot and basically Counsell can have the hook ready at any sign of trouble after the 2nd inning. Garza is fine for the 1st time around in the batting order this season.

We don't need to have a "starter" in the truest sense at this point in the season. We've got expanded rosters until we make the playoffs and in the playoffs will barely need a 4th starter -- if we do, a bullpen game is fine and we're playing with house money at that point.

If Counsell lets lower-velocity Guerra, AAAA Jungmann, or declining Garza take the rotation spot and pitches them like it's May 25th (let them pitch through a jam, get to 100 pitches) then he deserves to be flamed.

We've got like 3 or 4 turns in the rotation left. Why would we not do this? It would be silly to worry about who the "starter" is. Just pitch bullpen games with the expanded roster.

My hot take is that Nelson's injury barely hurts us [for this season]. It is a terrible loss for a full season. We can effectively pitch a bullpen game and get a "DH" with expanded rosters pinch hitting almost every time the pitcher slot comes around.



Guerra's velocity has been back since returning. He was hitting 95 in both his relief outings. Question for him is getting ahead so he can use his out pitch.

Garza was on a short leash his last start and still allowed 6 runs.


It wasn't quick enough. He did fine the first time around the order (check the splits, he's fine first time around), a couple guys got on, and then Craig Counsell let him pitch to Joey Votto, Scott Schebler, Adam Duvall, etc.

I don't know if I said it in a game thread here but I was definitely yelling it on Twitter, etc...Counsell should have come out and gotten him in the 3rd when the Reds got a guy on base and the meat of the order (most being lefties) were due up.


Last edited by bill hAll Star on September 11, 2017, 2:14 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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