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Who has played their last game as a Brewer?

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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#41

Posted: October 03, 2017, 11:03 AM Post
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3and2Fastball said:
MrTPlush said:
Honestly can anyone remember the last tim Braun was healthy for more than three days in a row?


Probably had a lot to do with why he was on Roids in the 1st Place. Incredible genetics for playing Baseball. Not so great genetics for durability.


Not to derail the thread, but obligatory need to point out the greatest fallacy of the steroid debate - systemic steroids absolutely do not help you heal from injury. In fact, they have the exact opposite effect. Yes, a local injection can decrease inflammation which is why it's useful to control pain in a specific location (like a joint or tendon), but systemic steroids suppress your entire immune system, which is the singular critical element in healing.

One thing steroids have been scientifically shown to do is make you stronger, faster, more powerful. This, and this alone, is the reason athletes take them. But people seem to think the healing thing is a legit reason, which is why athletes that get caught use it as an excuse. It sounds better than "oh I did it to gain a competitive advantage over other players," which is the truth.

Honestly I don't care much when athletes use them, but for some reason I get annoyed that they get away with this excuse. If anything Braun's injury issues are far more likely because of long-term steroid use rather than no longer using.

I am not Shea Vucinich


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#42

Posted: October 03, 2017, 11:11 AM Post
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Thurston Fluff said:
3and2Fastball said:
MrTPlush said:
Honestly can anyone remember the last tim Braun was healthy for more than three days in a row?


Probably had a lot to do with why he was on Roids in the 1st Place. Incredible genetics for playing Baseball. Not so great genetics for durability.

Very ironic but after all those discussions as to who to sign long term, Fielder or Braun, the correct answer was "neither".


I hope management learns their lesson and forgoes those types of signings in the future. I have no problem paying a player a lot of money as long as the length of the contract is three or less years.

Small market teams need to take that risk to keep superstar players. It's a necessary risk to take if you don't want to be the Oakland A's. The thing with long contracts are that they start by buying out some of their arbitration years and adding multiple years afterwards. There's no point in signing players, but not extending them past arbitration. If you try to sign them after their arbitration years, they are going to test free agency and sign big contracts with another team. No top-teir player will be siging 3 year contracts in their prime.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#43

Posted: October 03, 2017, 11:15 AM Post
Posts: 10685
The only way Villar is back is if they don't sign either Sogard or Walker. I think he's gone and I'm certain one if not both of those guys return. Walker's value in FA isn't what he thinks it is.

So is Broxton, and the obvious arms, Torres, Drake, Garza,

There will be 1-3 or so other guys who don't return. Bring back Vogt or go after a guy like Avila in FA? The latter can throw out an occasional runner.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#44

Posted: October 03, 2017, 11:22 AM Post
Posts: 216
BuckyBrewer61 said:
3and2Fastball said:
MrTPlush said:
Honestly can anyone remember the last tim Braun was healthy for more than three days in a row?


Probably had a lot to do with why he was on Roids in the 1st Place. Incredible genetics for playing Baseball. Not so great genetics for durability.


Not to derail the thread, but obligatory need to point out the greatest fallacy of the steroid debate - systemic steroids absolutely do not help you heal from injury. In fact, they have the exact opposite effect. Yes, a local injection can decrease inflammation which is why it's useful to control pain in a specific location (like a joint or tendon), but systemic steroids suppress your entire immune system, which is the singular critical element in healing.

One thing steroids have been scientifically shown to do is make you stronger, faster, more powerful. This, and this alone, is the reason athletes take them. But people seem to think the healing thing is a legit reason, which is why athletes that get caught use it as an excuse. It sounds better than "oh I did it to gain a competitive advantage over other players," which is the truth.

Honestly I don't care much when athletes use them, but for some reason I get annoyed that they get away with this excuse. If anything Braun's injury issues are far more likely because of long-term steroid use rather than no longer using.


The type of steroids you inject to reduce inflammation are Corticosteroids (Such as Cortisone), which are a type of Catabolic Steroid. And those are indeed not any good for systemic use. Look up what someone with Cushing's Syndrome looks like to see what body type you end up with. It's not what an athlete wants.

Whereas the type of steroids used as PEDs are Anabolic Steroids. HGH isn't a steroid, but it's an Anabolic hormone nonetheless. They do have an effect on recovery, but not so much in terms of healing an injury itself. Rather they help regain strength and build muscle mass faster. In any sport where there's little time for recovery that can certainly enhance performance towards the end of a long season. In baseball it's still the strength aspect that matters most I would think.

Regardless of whether it's strength or recovery it's used for, it's still performance enhancing. I agree that the healing aspect shouldn't be a legit reason, and it isn't. Anyone caught with high levels of synthetic anabolic steroids took them knowingly and in order to gain an unfair advantage, and should be suspended accordingly.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#45

Posted: October 03, 2017, 11:43 AM Post

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quintin berry

matt garza

taylor jungmann (it doesn't make sense, especially with jimmy nelson expected to miss a chunk of time, but the brewers seemingly didn't want jungmann's services during his final option year, and i doubt they'll want him in 2018)

domingo santana (trade to an american league team while his value is at an all-time high . . . it'll be tough to see him go, but it will open the door to give better defenders lewis brinson, keon broxton and brett phillips more playing time while bolstering the farm)

andrew susac (assuming jacob nottingham is added to the 40-man for catching depth)

carlos torres

stephen vogt (ditto with jacob nottingham)

neil walker


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#46

Posted: October 03, 2017, 11:54 AM Post
Posts: 4016
OnaBadger58 said:
Small market teams need to take that risk to keep superstar players. It's a necessary risk to take if you don't want to be the Oakland A's. The thing with long contracts are that they start by buying out some of their arbitration years and adding multiple years afterwards. There's no point in signing players, but not extending them past arbitration. If you try to sign them after their arbitration years, they are going to test free agency and sign big contracts with another team. No top-teir player will be siging 3 year contracts in their prime.


Neither Braun's nor Fielder's contracts would have bought out any arby years. As far as small market teams needing to do them or risk becoming the A's which small market team did one of those crazy long contracts and did better because of it? I don't think teams need super stars in their prime to win. They need a lot of good players more than they need a couple super stars eating up half the payroll.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#47

Posted: October 03, 2017, 12:00 PM Post

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bork said:
Susac is the only catcher with an option left, so he has that going for him.

that all changes if they add jacob nottingham to the 40-man roster before the rule 5 draft deadline.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#48

Posted: October 03, 2017, 1:13 PM Post
Posts: 14
rcc said:
Goodbye to Garza, Torres, Walker, Drake, Barnes, Peralta.

Walker wants to see what he can do in free agency. The rest are not good enough to be a Brewer anymore.


Barnes isn't going anywhere. The rest are probably gone.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#49

Posted: October 03, 2017, 1:20 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
Lathund said:
MrTPlush said:
Very on the fence about Keon Broxton. All this talk about OF depth, but who do you put as the 4th OFer? Do you really make Phillips or Brinson the 4th OFer where ABs will be a bit sporadic? I think there is a chance Keon Broxton stays as a 4th OFer. I think Jonathan Villar stays another year.

You donn't have to have a designated 4th OF.

No, you don't. However when all those guys are healthy someone is going to get the short end of the stick. Making Brinson/Phillips ride the bench for lengthy times or just not getting consistent playing time is questionable at best. Unless you instill a rotation between them where they all play consistently I wouldn't really want an inexperienced guy at #4.


Brinson had injuries every year in the minors

Braun will likely only start 100-110 games at most next year

Santana will get days off

Even if you exclude Santana days off, the team could split 324 starts between Braun, Phillips, and Brinson. That doesn't include PH chances and games with a DH.

There would be plenty of playing time available for Phillips and Brinson where each avoids extended stretches not playing.

Simply trade Broxton and roll with Santana/Braun/Phillips/Brinson.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#50

Posted: October 03, 2017, 1:24 PM Post
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djoctagone said:
bork said:
Susac is the only catcher with an option left, so he has that going for him.

that all changes if they add jacob nottingham to the 40-man roster before the rule 5 draft deadline.


Nottingham didn't hit any better than Susac and was a level lower. And I believe he still needs work on his defense. I don't see him as the third catching option next year.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#51

Posted: October 03, 2017, 1:51 PM Post
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Location: La Crosse
Thurston Fluff said:
OnaBadger58 said:
Small market teams need to take that risk to keep superstar players. It's a necessary risk to take if you don't want to be the Oakland A's. The thing with long contracts are that they start by buying out some of their arbitration years and adding multiple years afterwards. There's no point in signing players, but not extending them past arbitration. If you try to sign them after their arbitration years, they are going to test free agency and sign big contracts with another team. No top-teir player will be siging 3 year contracts in their prime.


Neither Braun's nor Fielder's contracts would have bought out any arby years. As far as small market teams needing to do them or risk becoming the A's which small market team did one of those crazy long contracts and did better because of it? I don't think teams need super stars in their prime to win. They need a lot of good players more than they need a couple super stars eating up half the payroll.

My bad, for some reason I thought the talk was about the first contract extensions for players (Braun's 7 year extension). In general, I agree with staying away from those 2nd contracts (although I can understand resigning Braun). Any contract that takes a player into the mid 30's invloves way more risk than reward.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#52

Posted: October 03, 2017, 5:25 PM Post
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There needs to be a greatest hits compilation video of Garza's awful throws.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#53

Posted: October 04, 2017, 2:49 AM Post
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rcc said:
Goodbye to Garza, Torres, Walker, Drake, Barnes, Peralta.

Walker wants to see what he can do in free agency. The rest are not good enough to be a Brewer anymore.


I don't see any reason to get rid of Barnes. Maybe we need more high leverage relievers or better high leverage relievers, but getting rid of Barnes would be similar to getting rid of Knebel after last season.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#54

Posted: October 04, 2017, 4:32 AM Post
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I agree Barnes isn't going anywhere and the Knebel comparison makes sense. Knebel has his share of struggles in 2016.

What I'd like to know is why Barnes got away from throwing his slider so much in 2017. Coming up I always thought Barnes had a really nasty looking slider that perfectly complemented his fastball. For the most part at least to me it seemed that he ditched it this last season in favor of his cutter.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#55

Posted: October 04, 2017, 6:31 AM Post
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bork said:
djoctagone said:
bork said:
Susac is the only catcher with an option left, so he has that going for him.

that all changes if they add jacob nottingham to the 40-man roster before the rule 5 draft deadline.


Nottingham didn't hit any better than Susac and was a level lower. And I believe he still needs work on his defense. I don't see him as the third catching option next year.


Nottingham is also, what, 6 years younger than Susac? He needs to be added, or they risk losing him in the Rule 5. We aren't talking about him being up with the big club, but on the 40-man. If they leave him unprotected, there's a good chance that some other team would grab him as a developmental guy.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#56

Posted: October 04, 2017, 8:48 AM Post
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Good chance? It's one thing to stash a Rule 5 guy in the bullpen for a year. But I can't imagine even a rebuilding team keeping a catcher on the 25 all year who isn't MLB ready either offensively or defensively.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#57

Posted: October 04, 2017, 8:54 AM Post
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FVBrewerFan said:
Good chance? It's one thing to stash a Rule 5 guy in the bullpen for a year. But I can't imagine even a rebuilding team keeping a catcher on the 25 all year who isn't MLB ready either offensively or defensively.


Nottingham is more advanced than most of the catchers taken in the Rule 5 the last few years. And there have been a lot taken.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#58

Posted: October 04, 2017, 8:54 AM Post
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FVBrewerFan said:
Good chance? It's one thing to stash a Rule 5 guy in the bullpen for a year. But I can't imagine even a rebuilding team keeping a catcher on the 25 all year who isn't MLB ready either offensively or defensively.


Both the Reds and Padres did last year.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#59

Posted: October 04, 2017, 9:29 AM Post
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Didn't know that, I stand corrected!


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#60

Posted: October 04, 2017, 11:26 AM Post
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I was responding to the notion that Susac gets dropped from the 40 man if Nottingham gets added. I don't see any way Nottingham is the first one called if a catcher gets hurt, that would likely be Susac. Whoever doesn't get the backup catcher spot between Vogt and Bandy ends up having to go through waivers to go to the minors.


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