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Who has played their last game as a Brewer?

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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#61

Posted: October 04, 2017, 11:42 AM Post
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Wily Peralta elected free agency. So there's that.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#62

Posted: October 04, 2017, 11:55 AM Post
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Brew4U said:
Wily Peralta elected free agency. So there's that.

So did Nieuwenhuis, Blazek and Goforth.

None of those guys was on the major league roster, so that they left is not a shock. Rivera is another guy I expect to go. All those guys will likely hope for a better opportunity in another org.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#63

Posted: October 05, 2017, 8:29 PM Post
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Baldkin said:
Thankfully, never have to see this again:


Wasn't the first time Garza did that in his career either... [laughing]

(Starts at the 2:41 mark)



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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#64

Posted: October 06, 2017, 12:18 AM Post
Posts: 7229
MrTPlush said:
Eric Sogard - I seriously hope we find something better to sit on our bench. He is not very good.
.


This seems ridiculous to me. Sure he had a career year, but high avg, high obp, some pop, and defensive versatility. He helped save our season. He’s unproven, but he was VERY good this year


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#65

Posted: October 06, 2017, 1:20 AM Post
Posts: 6353
Location: Kenosha, WI
DHonks said:
MrTPlush said:
Eric Sogard - I seriously hope we find something better to sit on our bench. He is not very good.
.


This seems ridiculous to me. Sure he had a career year, but high avg, high obp, some pop, and defensive versatility. He helped save our season. He’s unproven, but he was VERY good this year


No, he was not VERY good this year. Feel free to pull out some accurate numbers to support that notion. He was carried by some ridiculous numbers when first brought up that are definitely not what he truly is. Look at those second half numbers. That is what he really is. He carried a prett high OBP compared to his AVG all year, but I'm not sure how true that is. Regardless this guy is definitely a below average hitter and possible straight terrible.

He wasn't god awful terrible, but he really isn't something we should want...not great D and pretty good bet the offense is well below average. We should want better, that is not ridiculous.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#66

Posted: October 06, 2017, 4:18 AM Post
Posts: 10109
Don't see the problem with Sogard back off the bench. He's a lefty bat that can get on base and play above average D all around the infield. If you're talking a million bucks or so, for a utility infielder you could certainly do worse.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#67

Posted: October 06, 2017, 7:36 AM Post
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Sogard's second half OPS was a Yadiel Rivera-like .586. For his career he's a little better against RHP, but still only .648. I'd rather have DeJesus as a backup and find a LH starter in FA/trade (i.e. Walker).


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#68

Posted: October 06, 2017, 8:24 AM Post
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A smart GM will build a roster according to what he thinks best but also has to adjust to the manager.

Stearns needs to make sure that

Thames never bats vs LHP's
Sogard never plays SS again
Barnes never pitches in the 8th again
Thames never bats lead off again
Braun never plays more than 4 games a week
We have a better LOOGY than Oliver Drake!
And if Stearns believes in Villar, he needs to make sure he's the only real option at 2B, because otherwise Counsell will start someone else.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#69

Posted: October 06, 2017, 9:37 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:
DHonks said:

This seems ridiculous to me. Sure he had a career year, but high avg, high obp, some pop, and defensive versatility. He helped save our season. He’s unproven, but he was VERY good this year


No, he was not VERY good this year. Feel free to pull out some accurate numbers to support that notion. He was carried by some ridiculous numbers when first brought up that are definitely not what he truly is. Look at those second half numbers. That is what he really is. He carried a prett high OBP compared to his AVG all year, but I'm not sure how true that is. Regardless this guy is definitely a below average hitter and possible straight terrible.

He wasn't god awful terrible, but he really isn't something we should want...not great D and pretty good bet the offense is well below average. We should want better, that is not ridiculous.


He ended the year with a .393 OBP and 1 full dWAR as a part-time player on a team that desperately needs a versatile lhb on the bench and more guys who get on base. Will he have a .393 OBP ever again? Of course not. But it's not unusual for guys who keep working hard and staying in shape to peak a little after 30. Peak age is 27 or 28, but experience keeps accumulating well past that age. Sogard had some kind of chronic injury problem (I forget what it was, maybe his knee) that was apparently resolved in the offseason and that may explain why it took so long for him to put it together. Every situation is different and you have to look at the whole context. If there really was a chronic injury holding him back (not to mention playing in Oakland Coliseum), his career numbers might not be much more accurate than this year's numbers in terms of what he's going to do next year. Most fans are probably too biased in favor of recent numbers, but they should probably be given some extra weight in this case.

You can't just erase his first-half numbers. Regardless of how your production is distributed, it all counts. He was very good this year. Also, OPS undervalues OBP, so it's not a great stat to use for a guy like him.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#70

Posted: October 06, 2017, 10:30 AM Post
Posts: 231
Location: Milwaukee
Plush, if you simply said you think Sogard is gone because there are better options for the 25th man then nobody would take issue (he certainly won't be starting next year so he'll be the 25th man if here). But saying Sogard was arguably terrible this year is down right absurd. You can point to his 2nd half numbers as a whole for the player you believe he is except you'd be ignoring his mechanical adjustments prior to the season (Nelson, Chase, Thames in Korea, Broxton last year, Pina 2yrs ago, etc ALL made mechanical adjustments for the better), finally got healthy from whatever nagging injury he had for a long time as well as his production upon returning from a 3wk stretch of not playing due to injury. Post injury he started 2-33 in 11 games/8 starts. Was it just a slump or did the time off/injury affect him upon returning? No idea. I ask because he was great until the injury and post 2-33 stretch he finished 263/410 the final 7wks. Sogard will never be an OPS guy. He's a scrappy player not a power hitting middle IF. He's there to provide defensive versatility and be a lefty contact bat who gets on base. And that's exactly what he did and did it well. What Sogard did this year and what you believe he actually is are two different things.

This is also why breaking down numbers, looking at game logs and playing in the weeds matters, especially when someone isn't getting a full season's worth of run because numbers can severely change over a couple bad weeks (see Braun) when not getting 550 AB. Sogard's second half numbers, and overall numbers, are dragged down hard due to a 33 AB stretch immediately following injury. Just like a pitcher having a couple horrendous performances can alter their numbers...

Take Hughes for example:
67 appearances - 59.2 IP, 49H, 20 ER, 7.4 H9, 1.22 whip, 3.02 ERA (overall numbers)
65 appearances - 58.2 IP, 41 H, 12 ER, 6.29 H9, 1.07 whip, 1.84 ERA
2 appearances - 1 IP, 8 H, 8 ER, 72.0 H9, 90.0 whip, 72.0 ERA (4H, 4ER in each appearance)

All this said, if Sogard's here I don't care. If he's elsewhere I don't care. But he most certainly was very good this year.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#71

Posted: October 06, 2017, 10:42 AM Post
Posts: 6353
Location: Kenosha, WI
I actually said I hope we can find something better. I never said no matter what he shouldn't be on the 25 man or anything along those lines. Eric Sogard had incredibly inflated numbers the first half. Eric Sogard is nowhere remotely close to being a .485 SLG% guy. His second half I a heck of a lot closer to reality, if not reality. The major increase in OBP% skills is also questionable. Also probably a little inflated, but who knows there.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#72

Posted: October 06, 2017, 11:31 AM Post
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On June 8 Sogard was hitting: 414/541/672. The rest of the year he went: 230/344/288. That's more in line with his career numbers: 245/313/324. The .344 obp after June 8 is intriguing and indicates he may have value as a lefty backup.

Villar hit 274/307/415 from June 9 on. Villar was very good in 2016 and I'd give him the chance to get that obp back up to 2016 level.

Sogard will look for a team that offers more playing time. Brewers have Thames, Aquilar, Villar, Arcia, Shaw, Perez around the infield. Figure Phillips makes the team, quite possibly Brinson. Given the current roster, Broxton and Sogard would be fighting for the final position player spot. I don't see Sogard waiting around to see how he fits in.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#73

Posted: October 06, 2017, 1:44 PM Post
Posts: 496
Location: New Berlin, WI
MrTPlush said:
I actually said I hope we can find something better. I never said no matter what he shouldn't be on the 25 man or anything along those lines. Eric Sogard had incredibly inflated numbers the first half. Eric Sogard is nowhere remotely close to being a .485 SLG% guy. His second half I a heck of a lot closer to reality, if not reality. The major increase in OBP% skills is also questionable. Also probably a little inflated, but who knows there.


Sogard is basically in competition with Perez for that super utility role. He's not an elite athlete with range or arm like an Arcia, but he is extremely consistent in making the plays that he can get to and he's not extremely limited like a Yuni. He's also underrated in how he grinds out his at bats and sees a ton of pitches. I would say 260/360/360 is a reasonable expectation for Sogard. That isn't terrible by any stretch, albeit not something anyone wants starting a signficant number of games.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#74

Posted: October 06, 2017, 1:55 PM Post
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As much as I hate on Perez he’s vastly superior to Sogard.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#75

Posted: October 06, 2017, 1:58 PM Post
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On a team full of free swinging, strikeout machines, Sogard is the exact opposite. He had the lowest strikeout rate and 2nd highest BB rate on the team. Yes, he probably wouldn't even reach Tony Gwynn Jr slugging, but if he can get on base and not strike out, I think he has value for the team. He probably won't repeat the OBP from this year, but I think he's worth bringing back as a bench bat.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#76

Posted: October 06, 2017, 3:38 PM Post
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Hilarious saying that Sogard is a bench bat based on the year he had...... highest OBP on the team, great avg., solid defender, smart ballplayer, walks about the same as striking out. He makes contact when that is all that is needed in situations. He may not "look" the part, but if he's healthy he can be what he is for the next two, three years before age starts taking over. I think he's back, and I'm calling for a two year deal worth 6 million. If he struggles for whatever reason, THEN he could be a bench bat and late inning defensive replacement.
Walker is gone. He's going to cost us waaaay too much. I really like his skill set, but he'll want to get paid.
Swarkzak is gone too. Someone, somewhere will give him big bucks for his A- type of season he just had.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#77

Posted: October 06, 2017, 3:40 PM Post
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bork said:
On a team full of free swinging, strikeout machines, Sogard is the exact opposite. He had the lowest strikeout rate and 2nd highest BB rate on the team. Yes, he probably wouldn't even reach Tony Gwynn Jr slugging, but if he can get on base and not strike out, I think he has value for the team. He probably won't repeat the OBP from this year, but I think he's worth bringing back as a bench bat.


Yep. He had a really good year and I don't see why people are just focusing on his 2nd-half stats. He was clearly working his way back from injury. Also, it seems obvious that the knee operation that caused him to miss all of 2016 made a difference. His year was a bit of a fluke, but he's at least earned the right to stay on the island for another year. He's a good fit as a versatile, patient lhb who can back up both middle infield spots.

Aguilar is the fluke guy they should move on from. An .827 OPS as a bad 1b with the benefit of a lot of platoon starts is nothing. He has significant negative value on the basepaths and not even a prayer of playing any other position effectively, and his career MiLB OPS of .800 would be a bit suspect for a middle infielder, let alone a guy whose can barely even play 1b. He's basically a significantly less versatile Jason Rogers.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#78

Posted: October 06, 2017, 3:44 PM Post
Posts: 496
Location: New Berlin, WI
rickh150 said:
Hilarious saying that Sogard is a bench bat based on the year he had...... highest OBP on the team, great avg., solid defender, smart ballplayer, walks about the same as striking out. He makes contact when that is all that is needed in situations. He may not "look" the part, but if he's healthy he can be what he is for the next two, three years before age starts taking over. I think he's back, and I'm calling for a two year deal worth 6 million. If he struggles for whatever reason, THEN he could be a bench bat and late inning defensive replacement.
Walker is gone. He's going to cost us waaaay too much. I really like his skill set, but he'll want to get paid.
Swarkzak is gone too. Someone, somewhere will give him big bucks for his A- type of season he just had.


If he's such an impressive player, why wouldn't another team sign him for more than the ridiculous 2/6 deal you are talking about? Name one starter on this team that he deserves to consistently start in front of? Exactly, you can't. That's why he's a bench bat.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#79

Posted: October 06, 2017, 3:51 PM Post
Posts: 496
Location: New Berlin, WI
coolhandluke121 said:
bork said:
On a team full of free swinging, strikeout machines, Sogard is the exact opposite. He had the lowest strikeout rate and 2nd highest BB rate on the team. Yes, he probably wouldn't even reach Tony Gwynn Jr slugging, but if he can get on base and not strike out, I think he has value for the team. He probably won't repeat the OBP from this year, but I think he's worth bringing back as a bench bat.


Yep. He had a really good year and I don't see why people are just focusing on his 2nd-half stats. He was clearly working his way back from injury. Also, it seems obvious that the knee operation that caused him to miss all of 2016 made a difference. His year was a bit of a fluke, but he's at least earned the right to stay on the island for another year. He's a good fit as a versatile, patient lhb who can back up both middle infield spots.

Aguilar is the fluke guy they should move on from. An .827 OPS as a bad 1b with the benefit of a lot of platoon starts is nothing. He has significant negative value on the basepaths and not even a prayer of playing any other position effectively, and his career MiLB OPS of .800 would be a bit suspect for a middle infielder, let alone a guy whose can barely even play 1b. He's basically a significantly less versatile Jason Rogers.


You actually couldn't possibly be more wrong on Aguilar. .827 OPS from a bench bat with sporadic playing time is like winning the friggin lottery. How many guys do you know that with very sporadic at bats can post that line? Guys that hit better than that usually end up taking over the starting spot and push for an all star appearance. I'm not sure what else you want out of a bench bat. Also Aguilar would be an emergency 3b if we were ever in a pinch and fields grounders there often before games. He grades pretty well as a 1b, I'm not sure where you are getting that he's a bad defender. The only thing you got right about Aguilar is he's a significant negative value on the basepaths, which is not a huge deal for a big time power guy.


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Offline  Re: Who has played their last game as a Brewer?
#80

Posted: October 06, 2017, 4:05 PM Post
Posts: 29
rickh150 said:
Hilarious saying that Sogard is a bench bat based on the year he had...... highest OBP on the team, great avg., solid defender, smart ballplayer, walks about the same as striking out. He makes contact when that is all that is needed in situations. He may not "look" the part, but if he's healthy he can be what he is for the next two, three years before age starts taking over. I think he's back, and I'm calling for a two year deal worth 6 million. If he struggles for whatever reason, THEN he could be a bench bat and late inning defensive replacement.
Walker is gone. He's going to cost us waaaay too much. I really like his skill set, but he'll want to get paid.
Swarkzak is gone too. Someone, somewhere will give him big bucks for his A- type of season he just had.


I like him, but to scoff at calling him a bench bat is quite an overreaction to a fluke year. You also contradict yourself by saying you'd offer 2/$6m, as if a starting free agent 2b would ever have to settle for that.

I agree that Walker gets way too much. Then again, I'm not sure how many teams would really need him at 2b. The Angels would be the obvious choice, and they desperately need help in the lineup while Trout is in his prime. The Mets are probably rebuilding, but you never know; they've been impatient in the past. And of course the Brewers.

Swarzak only has one good year under his belt. I think teams have suffered a lot of market correction with regard to overpaying relievers in free agency and trades. It was all the rage with the success of KC a few years ago, but relievers continue to be too volatile from one year to the next to be worth big money. I think Swarzak gets something like 2/$10m with a 3rd-year option, and I would like to see the Brewers offer 1/$7.5m and see if he bites.

I hope they stick to one-year deals at most. Stay the course. They had all this unexpected success by being conservative and giving guys opportunities and second chances, so why overpay in free agency and trade markets now? Stick to what got you here. That means giving Villar and Sogard another chance. It means Barnes and Williams could be just as good as all but the best free agent relievers, as they both have the kind of stuff that helped Turnbow, Axford, Jeffress, Thornburg, and Knebel have a few great season in their prime in recent memory. It means giving Guerra, Jungmann, Suter, and Wilkerson chances to handle that 5th spot. I doubt any of them succeed, but you're playing with house money.


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