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Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B [Post #220: Proposal for Braun at 2B]

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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 1:18 PM Post
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Yeah, that works for the top 4 hitters, you just end up with the back-to-back lefties once you get to Shaw - Thames


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 1:18 PM Post
Posts: 3387
Location: Madison, WI
Touche on that, yea just move up the other guys and put him 8th. Man I hope someone comes available due to a late camp cut that's better than Bandy, doubt it though


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 1:19 PM Post
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sveumrules said:
Would I prefer that our roster looked a little neater on paper? Sure. I'd imagine Stearns does too.

Would I make a suboptimal move (either selling low or buying high on a player's perceived value to the organization) just to accomplish that task? No.

Very few teams have an ideally configured roster, especially ones with Milwaukee's resources.


First, I think relative value is as important as individual perceived value. Second, it depends on how "optimal" you're looking. If we could trade Santana for a starting pitcher that had a little less than Santana's perceived value, I'd do it. The relative value lost from moving from Santana to Phillips/Broxton as the 4th OF is less than the relative value gained by getting a good starting pitcher to replace Gallardo, Guerra, etc.

I wouldn't trade Santana for garbage, but I wouldn't need to get 100% of perceived value if the trade would fix the roster by eliminating a logjam and filling a black hole. I just think that Stearns made the Yelich and Cain moves expecting that he'd get a decent return for Santana, but was offered garbage. Now we are where we are, and we'll make the best of it. There are worse problems than having too many good outfielders, but ideally we would have another good starting pitcher instead of an extra good outfielder.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 1:23 PM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
Touche on that, yea just move up the other guys and put him 8th. Man I hope someone comes available due to a late camp cut that's better than Bandy, doubt it though


Bandy is probably fine if Pina repeats his 2017 numbers. As a backup catcher, someone who can play decent defense with some pop in the bat is alright. If Pina proves to be a one-year wonder and Bandy is required to play more of an everyday role, I think MLB pitchers would find a lot of holes in his swing.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 2:06 PM Post
Posts: 3387
Location: Madison, WI
And hopefully it's mitigated as long Vogt isn't out long. Whatever on his D, but at least you should be able to trust him as a competent MLB bat.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 5:09 PM Post
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per Adam McCalvy:
Another new(ish) position on deck for Ryan Braun, who expects to see some time in right field before the end of camp. He played two seasons there in 2014-15. All about versatility as the Brewers try to find ABs for all of their outfielders.

Per TomH:
Of Braun perhaps playing some RF in camp, Counsell said, "It's something he's offered to do. There could be scenarios during the season, depending on our configuration. It's not something we need to spend a lot of time preparing for."



Someone add this position to the title thread please. Santana too much of a turd defensively to play any position so 34 year old Braun will just play all 9 this season. Half blue. Love that he’s offered to do it too. Team player and has always been willing to do what’s best for the team.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 6:49 PM Post
Posts: 1499
MrAllen said:
There's been some talk that Braun should be the odd man out on this team because of his declining performance and inability to stay in the lineup. I was wondering if this is overblown, so I took a look at some stats over the past 2 seasons amongst MLB outfielders:

WAR ('16-17):
Yelich (5th - 9.0 WAR in 1354 PAs)
Cain (15th - 6.6 WAR in 1079 PAs)
Braun (32nd - 4.8 WAR in 989 PAs)
Santana (50th - 3.2 WAR in 888 PAs)

wRC+ ('16-17):
Braun (16th - 123)
Yelich (17th - 123)
Santana (21st - 121)
Cain (40th - 109)

Def ('16-17):
Cain (15th - 12.4)
Yelich (67th - -2.9)
Braun (109th - -12.8)
Santana (134th - -22.4)

BsR ('16-17):
Yelich (13th - 9.2)
Cain (37th - 4.7)
Santana (69th - 2.0)
Braun (109th - -0.6)

AVG ('16-17 min. 400 PAs):
Cain (8th - .295)
Yelich (17th - .290)
Braun (19th - .290)
Santana (47th - .271)

OBP ('16-17 min. 400 PAs):
Yelich (8th - .373)
Santana (11th - .363)
Cain (23rd - .353)
Braun (25th - .353)

SLG ('16-17 min. 400 PAs):
Braun (9th - .516)
Santana (25th - .486)
Yelich (41st - .460)
Cain (70th - .427)

Games Played ('16-17):
Yelich (4th - 311 Gs)
Cain (43rd - 258 Gs)
Braun (61st - 239 Gs)
Santana (67th - 228 Gs)

Games Played ('15-17):
Yelich (16th - 437 Gs)
Cain (34th - 398 Gs)
Braun (41st - 379 Gs)
Santana (95th - 280 Gs) *obv affected by him not being in the majors all year in '15


First off, those are 4 VERY good players and if we can get them all in the lineup somehow, that's pretty exciting.

That said, from a performance standpoint, I don't think there should be any doubt that when he's available, Braun should be in the lineup and if you put Cain and Yelich 1-2, Braun should be 3. From a "not being able to stay in the lineup" standpoint, considering there are ~90 starting outfielders in the majors, his games played seems pretty in line with your normal player over the past 2-3 seasons.

I think the real question is are they experimenting with the wrong player at 1st? Considering Domingo's worse in the outfield, would be a bigger target at first, and Braun is already creating some concern that playing 1st may actually be harder on his body than the outfield, it seems like they may have picked the wrong guy. Then again, first base is pretty involved throughout the game and maybe they just don't want Santana being near the ball that much if they can avoid it.


But but but... what about Thames lol. Braun has got to play 1st. Glad he's open to playing 1st and rf ontop of lf... and is offering to play ss and 2b which I'll politely decline. [laughing]

Thames is a platoon guy. Please and thank you.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 6:57 PM Post
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Thames could end up being a game changer off the bench too. No matter what lineup they throw out, they will have one of: Braun, Thames, Santana, Yelich, Cain coming off the bench. Game. Changers.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 7:28 PM Post
Posts: 4160
Does Santana have an option?

Edit, I ask, because I see the roster playing out that Santana is sent to AAA. Phillips as the 4th OF. When injuries happen he's obviously called up to play. I just don't agree with Braun/Thames splitting time at 1b over Thames/Aguilar splitting time.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 7:34 PM Post
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brewcrewdue80 said:
Does Santana have an option?


I'm not sure, but you just don't option a 3+ WAR 25 year old corner outfielder who hit 30 HR last year and OPSed nearly. 900.

It's bad enough that Phillips, Aguilar and Broxton are all forced casualties of roster construction and to some extent, even Thames.

The closer we get to the season with no end in sight to the logjam the more doubtful I am about the efficiency of this roster. I'd love to be wrong, and in Stearns I trust and all that, but I'm skeptical.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 7:39 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
brewcrewdue80 said:
Does Santana have an option?


I'm not sure, but you just don't option a 3+ WAR 25 year old corner outfielder who hit 30 HR last year and OPSed nearly. 900.

It's bad enough that Phillips, Aguilar and Broxton are all forced casualties of roster construction and to some extent, even Thames.

The closer we get to the season with no end in sight to the logjam the more doubtful I am about the efficiency of this roster. I'd love to be wrong, and in Stearns I trust and all that, but I'm skeptical.


I’m still scratching my head as to why having too many good players is a bad thing. As an advocate of never having a guy like Niewenhuis in our lineup, I would think you’d love this type of depth.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 7:47 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:
brewcrewdue80 said:
Does Santana have an option?


I'm not sure, but you just don't option a 3+ WAR 25 year old corner outfielder who hit 30 HR last year and OPSed nearly. 900.

It's bad enough that Phillips, Aguilar and Broxton are all forced casualties of roster construction and to some extent, even Thames.

The closer we get to the season with no end in sight to the logjam the more doubtful I am about the efficiency of this roster. I'd love to be wrong, and in Stearns I trust and all that, but I'm skeptical.


I’m still scratching my head as to why having too many good players is a bad thing. As an advocate of never having a guy like Niewenhuis in our lineup, I would think you’d love this type of depth.


I'm all for depth, but if you can't find MLB ABs for good players, they're not doing you any good. That's just waste. We can't seriously be talking about wasting Domingo Santana's bat on our AAA team in a playoff hopeful year.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 7:51 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:

I'm not sure, but you just don't option a 3+ WAR 25 year old corner outfielder who hit 30 HR last year and OPSed nearly. 900.

It's bad enough that Phillips, Aguilar and Broxton are all forced casualties of roster construction and to some extent, even Thames.

The closer we get to the season with no end in sight to the logjam the more doubtful I am about the efficiency of this roster. I'd love to be wrong, and in Stearns I trust and all that, but I'm skeptical.


I’m still scratching my head as to why having too many good players is a bad thing. As an advocate of never having a guy like Niewenhuis in our lineup, I would think you’d love this type of depth.


I'm all for depth, but if you can't find MLB ABs for good players, they're not doing you any good. That's just waste. We can't seriously be talking about wasting Domingo Santana's bat on our AAA team in a playoff hopeful year.


Plenty of at bats to go around. The days of guys playing 162 games are over. Heck, even Yelich can play 145-150 and I would be perfectly fine with it. Fresh bodies all year long if they keep the current roster. If it comes at the expense of Broxton and Aguilar, so be it. We have 4 all star type batters in the mix. What’s there to complain about? Don’t lump me into that poster above. Who cares if he has an option. Unless he falls completely off a cliff it never comes into play.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 8:59 PM Post
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You are lowering Santana's trade value by not playing him everyday.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 9:03 PM Post
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homer said:
You are lowering Santana's trade value by not playing him everyday.

In my eyes, you aren’t. Other franchise know what he is. His value is about as high as it will ever be since I think his numbers last year are about his peak, he’s never going to be cheaper or have as much control. If he starts 135 games versus 150, it won’t diminish his value. GM’s are smarter than that. It’s just that there is a glut of slugging corner OFs that are limited defensively.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 9:10 PM Post
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If Santana were put in a strict platoon, sure, that would probably lower his value. I don't think that's going to happen.

The factor that could lower his trade value is the logjam in the outfield the Brewers are currently presented with. This could have a perceived notion of the Brewers being perhaps desperate to unload him, but if that's the factor that has prevented a trade going down now, him playing a few less games as they do a 4-5 player rotation through the OF/1B could quite possibly enhance his value rather than diminish it, as it would show the Brewers are serious about being content to roll with what they have and just split the ABs up a little bit more than otherwise.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 9:12 PM Post
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homer said:
You are lowering Santana's trade value by not playing him everyday.


I agree but he at this point makes the logical drop to AAA. I would think teams look at their OF situation and Santana hitting multiple HRs every week down in AAA and step up and trade for him. He'd only lose value if he weren't on pace for 40HRs after 100 PAs and beyond. Maybe you can entice Colorado themselves by the fact he's cranking dingers in Springs.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 9:21 PM Post
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brewcrewdue80 said:
homer said:
You are lowering Santana's trade value by not playing him everyday.


I agree but he at this point makes the logical drop to AAA. I would think teams look at their OF situation and Santana hitting multiple HRs every week down in AAA and step up and trade for him. He'd only lose value if he weren't on pace for 40HRs after 100 PAs and beyond. Maybe you can entice Colorado themselves by the fact he's cranking dingers in Springs.

I’m so lost. Is this missing the blue sarcasm font?


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 9:23 PM Post
Posts: 1499
Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:
brewcrewdue80 said:
Does Santana have an option?


I'm not sure, but you just don't option a 3+ WAR 25 year old corner outfielder who hit 30 HR last year and OPSed nearly. 900.

It's bad enough that Phillips, Aguilar and Broxton are all forced casualties of roster construction and to some extent, even Thames.

The closer we get to the season with no end in sight to the logjam the more doubtful I am about the efficiency of this roster. I'd love to be wrong, and in Stearns I trust and all that, but I'm skeptical.


I’m still scratching my head as to why having too many good players is a bad thing. As an advocate of never having a guy like Niewenhuis in our lineup, I would think you’d love this type of depth.


While I get everyone wanting to maximize use on players... our current team is only a playoff team if the can score 5 or more runs a game.

A 1-5 frequently populated by 5 of cain yelich braun shaw santana thames (vs rhp) is the only way to get that result. People worry about 6-8... but you dont have to with that 1-5. Wheres the list of slop ABs we had in the of last year from broxton franklin kirk villar perez? We can't make the playoffs continuing that.

I'd kill for too much pitching talent. Too many impact bats is a good thing too. Trade santana and we get vulnerable vs lhp.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 10:21 PM Post
Posts: 11657
I'm out here in Arizona this week. The guy I'm concerned about is Thames. He's got the legs of a 60 year old. I think Braun can handle 1B well enough to play there 2-3 times per week but personally I'd rather see Aguilar out there with Braun in LF and Santana sitting all but 2-3 games a week. Braun is still clearly a better hitter than Santana will ever be and I think Aguilar is a better hitter than Santana too though it's close.


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