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Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B [Post #220: Proposal for Braun at 2B]

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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 10:24 PM Post
Posts: 615
Share some photos in the Spring Training thread, and have a good time!


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 10:40 PM Post
Posts: 1499
Aguilar better than Santana. This Aguilar stuffs getting hilarious.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 11:00 PM Post
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TJseven7 said:
Aguilar better than Santana. This Aguilar stuffs getting hilarious.


The line is thinner than you think, which is probably why we haven't been able to trade Santana. Santana is more consistent, slightly better OBP, and a slightly better fielder (but still a bad fielder). They are very similar players, really.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 11:16 PM Post
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Oxy said:
TJseven7 said:
Aguilar better than Santana. This Aguilar stuffs getting hilarious.


The line is thinner than you think, which is probably why we haven't been able to trade Santana. Santana is more consistent, slightly better OBP, and a slightly better fielder (but still a bad fielder). They are very similar players, really.


Santana was 44 points higher ba... 61 points higher obp... 49 in slg...110 in ops. as a baby (21-22) in AAA vs aguilar who who was in AAA as a grown man (24-26). And no that wasn't in cs it was in fresno. Aguilar 275/345/800 every step. At 21 santana hit AAA blossomed and was a 315/407/928.

Aguilar repeated his AAA numbers for us last year AFTER GETTING CUT. Santana was never getting cut. Sure he sucks at defense but come on.

Santana might not be worth what we want but aguilar is worth a ticket at best. Santana for a ticket would send the board into hysterics.


Last edited by TJseven7 on March 14, 2018, 11:29 PM, edited 2 times in total.

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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 14, 2018, 11:20 PM Post
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Are people glossing over the fact that Santana was still only 24 last season? Meanwhile Aguilar is going into his age 28 season and has only managed to rack up a half season of at bats in his career. And the 279 ABs he had last year as a 27 year old that, I guess, people are using to compare him to Domingo weren't even as impressive as the younger Santana who did it over a full season of work. Just not sure how this is adding up to Aguilar is the better player... it's not even like he strikes out less or something, there's practically zero stats showing that he's a better hitter or to expect that he will be going forward.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 1:27 AM Post
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Santanas a stud, so we hate on him for his Ks and defense.

Aguilar is a ww guy, so we love him for spitting on pitches and playing a passible 1b.


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Online  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 6:31 AM Post
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I like Aguilar. I like what he brought to the bench last year. I'm disappointed that there isn't really a spot for him on the team this year. I kind of feel like last year was a little bit of a fluke and he's probably more like a 775 to 800 Ops guy. But saying he's as good or better than Santana is just false. There's no measurable or quantifiable statistic that shows he's better than Santana.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 7:06 AM Post
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Aguilar is more than a little bit of a fluke. He hit 3 homers in 6 pa's at Coors field, benefited from playing against LHP's a lot, and still only managed an OPS slightly north of .800 when slugging is literally the only thing he might be able to do at replacement level at 1b. He has an OPS of .800 in over 4,000 MiLB pa's, and rarely played as a young prospect for the leagues he was in. He had some clutch homers last year, but that's just being in the right place at the right time. I think fond memories of some of those at-bats are clouding our judgment on what type of player he is. He's likely to be DFA'ed for the second spring in a row when he should be in his prime. If you're asking him to do anything more than be a AAA 1B who can come up and be the RHB 1B if/when Braun gets hurt, you're not doing your job as gm.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 7:08 AM Post
Posts: 7548
I'm a supporter of Aguilar, but I think it's a bigger shame there's no room for Choi. Either one would make a fine PH off the bench, but you can't keep them all.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 7:23 AM Post
Posts: 4160
JohnBriggs12 said:
I'm out here in Arizona this week. The guy I'm concerned about is Thames. He's got the legs of a 60 year old. I think Braun can handle 1B well enough to play there 2-3 times per week but personally I'd rather see Aguilar out there with Braun in LF and Santana sitting all but 2-3 games a week. Braun is still clearly a better hitter than Santana will ever be and I think Aguilar is a better hitter than Santana too though it's close.


This is partly my concern and suggestion on Santana to AAA while Keeping Aguilar.
Thames wasn't the full term product of health last season. Do you see where this is going? Thames mixed with Braun at 1b waiving Aguilar leads to the when do one or the other go down for their injury? What of both at the same time?

Now we are playing Perez at 1b? Perez at 3b and Shaw to 1b?
.257/.283/.388/.671 That is Perez's career slash line. And he barely beat that last year 259/289/414/704

Do you get the process of thinking?


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 7:25 AM Post
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Brew4U said:
I’m still scratching my head as to why having too many good players is a bad thing. As an advocate of never having a guy like Niewenhuis in our lineup, I would think you’d love this type of depth.


The problem is that while we will have an All Star OF sitting the bench every day, we could very well have a sub-par starting pitcher on the mound 40% of the time. We spent our resources to add two great players to our deepest position, while passing on seemingly affordable upgrades where we could really use them (2b, SP).

While I am skeptical that the three guys who were so bad last year that we traded for Walker will suddenly be good, at least there is some reason to believe that Villar could bounce back. At the back-end of our rotation, I don't see much room for hope (other than at some point Nelson will return). I still find it hard to believe that Stearns thought spending the money to sign Cain or the prospects to acquire Yelich (blocking Santana/Braun) was more important than spending that capital to upgrade our rotation.

As to Braun, I know the PED stigma will always be the first thing a lot of people think of, but outside of that he has been nothing but great for the Brewers. He's put up numbers that should garner Hall of Fame votes, he has been asked to change position multiple times and has never complained, he plays through obvious pain, he signed a team-friendly extension and later came back to the team to sign a deal that would make him a Brewer-for-life, and it has been noted that he tries to convince teammates to take early extensions. Now he knows that the team is in a roster-crunch and rather than doing what many players in his position would do, which is say "I'm the veteran and I'm going to play my position," he goes to the manager and basically says that he'll be a utility player if that helps the team, while taking extra reps at positions where he's uncomfortable.

I don't know what the next few years will bring, but I look forward to seeing #8 hanging in the Miller Park rafters shortly after his playing days are done.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 7:26 AM Post
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brewcrewdue80 said:
Does Santana have an option?

Edit, I ask, because I see the roster playing out that Santana is sent to AAA. Phillips as the 4th OF. When injuries happen he's obviously called up to play. I just don't agree with Braun/Thames splitting time at 1b over Thames/Aguilar splitting time.


I don't believe there is any way this happens. Santana is in RF for the Brewers come opening day. Only way that doesn't happen is on the off chance that he's traded.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 7:28 AM Post
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brewcrewdue80 said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
I'm out here in Arizona this week. The guy I'm concerned about is Thames. He's got the legs of a 60 year old. I think Braun can handle 1B well enough to play there 2-3 times per week but personally I'd rather see Aguilar out there with Braun in LF and Santana sitting all but 2-3 games a week. Braun is still clearly a better hitter than Santana will ever be and I think Aguilar is a better hitter than Santana too though it's close.


This is partly my concern and suggestion on Santana to AAA while Keeping Aguilar.
Thames wasn't the full term product of health last season. Do you see where this is going? Thames mixed with Braun at 1b waiving Aguilar leads to the when do one or the other go down for their injury? What of both at the same time?

Now we are playing Perez at 1b? Perez at 3b and Shaw to 1b?
.257/.283/.388/.671 That is Perez's career slash line. And he barely beat that last year 259/289/414/704

Do you get the process of thinking?


I'm pretty sure that's why we signed Ji-Man and promised him we wouldn't sign another first baseman. He will play in AAA and be called up if/when and injury occurs.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 7:36 AM Post
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monty57 said:
Brew4U said:
I’m still scratching my head as to why having too many good players is a bad thing. As an advocate of never having a guy like Niewenhuis in our lineup, I would think you’d love this type of depth.


The problem is that while we will have an All Star OF sitting the bench every day, we could very well have a sub-par starting pitcher on the mound 40% of the time. We spent our resources to add two great players to our deepest position, while passing on seemingly affordable upgrades where we could really use them (2b, SP).

While I am skeptical that the three guys who were so bad last year that we traded for Walker will suddenly be good, at least there is some reason to believe that Villar could bounce back. At the back-end of our rotation, I don't see much room for hope (other than at some point Nelson will return). I still find it hard to believe that Stearns thought spending the money to sign Cain or the prospects to acquire Yelich (blocking Santana/Braun) was more important than spending that capital to upgrade our rotation.

As to Braun, I know the PED stigma will always be the first thing a lot of people think of, but outside of that he has been nothing but great for the Brewers. He's put up numbers that should garner Hall of Fame votes, he has been asked to change position multiple times and has never complained, he plays through obvious pain, he signed a team-friendly extension and later came back to the team to sign a deal that would make him a Brewer-for-life, and it has been noted that he tries to convince teammates to take early extensions. Now he knows that the team is in a roster-crunch and rather than doing what many players in his position would do, which is say "I'm the veteran and I'm going to play my position," he goes to the manager and basically says that he'll be a utility player if that helps the team, while taking extra reps at positions where he's uncomfortable.

I don't know what the next few years will bring, but I look forward to seeing #8 hanging in the Miller Park rafters shortly after his playing days are done.


I agree on probably 90% of what you said. I'm a bit more bullish on the sub-par 40% thing, though. Suter certainly isn't going to blow anything by you, but he proved last year that he can be an effective starter in the league. His biggest issue was being able to go deep into games, but that could very well be the result of being yanked back and forth between the rotation and the pen last year. I also like Woodruff as a potential 5th starter, and even have some hope for Guerra should he win the spot. I have no hope for Miley, and should he win the spot, I predict a full on dumpster fire. He's the left-handed version of Garza at this point.

I really like what you said on Braun, though. Yep, the PED thing sucked, but he has been nothing but a team player and professional who has represented the team wonderfully over the years. Instead of sulking when the team basically acquired his replacement in Yelich, he said he'd be willing to go anywhere and do anything to help the team. He's been honest and forthright when asked about the difficulties of the position switch, and for a guy that has performed at such a high level for so long, and has been very confident in his abilities throughout his career, that is really saying something. He's handled this whole thing beautifully.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 7:38 AM Post
Posts: 1220
brewcrewdue80 said:

Now we are playing Perez at 1b? Perez at 3b and Shaw to 1b?
.257/.283/.388/.671 That is Perez's career slash line. And he barely beat that last year 259/289/414/704

Do you get the process of thinking?


Nice argument there. And you want to move Santana to AAA to keep Aguilar.

The point is not that you want to play Perez at 1B. The point is that you can't waste a roster spot on another 1B when you already have both sides of the 1B platoon covered.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 7:45 AM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
monty57 said:
Brew4U said:
I’m still scratching my head as to why having too many good players is a bad thing. As an advocate of never having a guy like Niewenhuis in our lineup, I would think you’d love this type of depth.


The problem is that while we will have an All Star OF sitting the bench every day, we could very well have a sub-par starting pitcher on the mound 40% of the time. We spent our resources to add two great players to our deepest position, while passing on seemingly affordable upgrades where we could really use them (2b, SP).

While I am skeptical that the three guys who were so bad last year that we traded for Walker will suddenly be good, at least there is some reason to believe that Villar could bounce back. At the back-end of our rotation, I don't see much room for hope (other than at some point Nelson will return). I still find it hard to believe that Stearns thought spending the money to sign Cain or the prospects to acquire Yelich (blocking Santana/Braun) was more important than spending that capital to upgrade our rotation.

As to Braun, I know the PED stigma will always be the first thing a lot of people think of, but outside of that he has been nothing but great for the Brewers. He's put up numbers that should garner Hall of Fame votes, he has been asked to change position multiple times and has never complained, he plays through obvious pain, he signed a team-friendly extension and later came back to the team to sign a deal that would make him a Brewer-for-life, and it has been noted that he tries to convince teammates to take early extensions. Now he knows that the team is in a roster-crunch and rather than doing what many players in his position would do, which is say "I'm the veteran and I'm going to play my position," he goes to the manager and basically says that he'll be a utility player if that helps the team, while taking extra reps at positions where he's uncomfortable.

I don't know what the next few years will bring, but I look forward to seeing #8 hanging in the Miller Park rafters shortly after his playing days are done.


I agree with most of what you said. The bolded part isn't really true because Braun has already begun to move to 1B. That will clear up a lot of this issue of having too many good players. Will it cut time for Thames? Sure. But okay, we are talking about a guy that had many cold streaks last year that was part of the big problem with this team. Maybe playing less will keep him more productive during parts of the year. He's no spring chicken either.

The part about the second base positions is a bit overblown too. If we wanted Walker, he'd be a Brewer. They obviously like the three-headed monster that they have or they would have gone in another direction with that position.

I get the frustrations over the rotation as well but again, it's not where Stearns feels they need to add resources to. He obviously didn't want Lynn. Arrietta and Darvish were just too much and it may come down to not wanting Cobb at the price he may get. I don't think this is too bad of a position to take. Chacin was added and could be a really good pitcher for the Brewers. Lots of people are bagging on Miley before he's ever thrown a pitch in a Brewers uniform. Suter continues to go out and surprise people. Guerra may just very well be 2016 Guerra after getting the appropriate rest and healing up. Heck, I won't even bring Woodruff or the possibility of Burnes to this rotation. Couple that with the possibility that Nelson does get back to our rotation and pitches well. Stearns trusts his process and so far, so will I. Cain and Yelich were at a price he felt it was necessary to add and now we will have a 1-5 (if no one is moved) that can compete with any pitching staff they see. Plus guys like Pina, Arcia, and Villar who have all the talent in the world to be legitimate bats in our lineup. I just don't buy too much into this thought process that we have so many holes. Will there be some? Probably. As every teams seems to get them due to regression, injuries or just bad luck. But the roster Stearns is putting together is very talented and can stick their nose in there with anyone.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 8:14 AM Post
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Brew4U said:

I agree with most of what you said. The bolded part isn't really true because Braun has already begun to move to 1B. That will clear up a lot of this issue of having too many good players. Will it cut time for Thames? Sure. But okay, we are talking about a guy that had many cold streaks last year that was part of the big problem with this team. Maybe playing less will keep him more productive during parts of the year. He's no spring chicken either.


For all the talk about Braun and Santana, Thames could be the odd man out. It's not like he's guaranteed to be better against RHB's than Braun again this year. Braun's career splits aren't all that dramatic. But that would depend on Braun making a very successful transition to 1B and staying healthy. I could actually see Braun being a better fielder than Thames or Aguilar, due to his agility, reach, and not having to throw much.

One thing is for sure as far as I'm concerned, and that's Cain and Yelich being better than any of those 3. I could not justify sitting either of them when they don't need to.


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 8:18 AM Post
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Many points many points...

I love aguilar. He's got old man game. He's gritty. Doesn't change the fact that he's just a guy. Man, I loved Lorenzo Alexander for years and the dude did nothing but you could tell he belonged. Get fat for DL get skinny for LB play ST dude just said yes. Gets in the perfect spot in buffalo at 32 years old and blows up for a pro bowl trip. Was sooo happy for the dude. Earned his spot, did great in the right spot but he's still not worth crap on the market because he's still just a guy. To me that's aguilar. Easy to like, but just not that good. You root for him but he's not very good.

To luke. Aguilar didn't hit lhp as much as you think he did.

To brewcrew: Numbers say Thames has about 400 pa on the way. He just did 550 last year. If braun gets hurt, thames expands his playing time. Perez hits LHP well. If Thames gets hurt, G-man. It's set up for JIC.

Monty: An all star OF will not be on the bench unless he needs rest.

If we had a Cf like Cain we wouldn't need walker. Cf and 2B was killing us. We looked at a couple 2b, a couple cf. Picked one last year. 1 is solved this year, no worries. No demand on Villar/Sogard/Perez's shoulders.

I've hated how Brauns fit on this roster for awhile now. He's sent me on a 180 this spring. Love his attitude.

SP... I'm not going to be sunshine and flowers on it. I worry about 4-5. Depending on 1-3 we need 4-5 to pitch in the 4.3-4.7 range. It's dicey. I want cobb but if we added cobb and not cain I'd give our offense a 0% chance of scoring 5 runs a game. We need that just as bad. The lineup looks beautiful as is, the pitching staff has a lot of stuff to throw at the wall... and we have to hope something sticks. Come on DJ.


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Online  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 8:23 AM Post
Posts: 9409
We are replacing Aguilars ABs with Braun. Why are you guys so up in arms about losing a (likely) .750 OPS bat?


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Offline  Re: Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B
Posted: March 15, 2018, 8:27 AM Post
Posts: 3640
I still find it hard to believe that Stearns thought spending the money to sign Cain or the prospects to acquire Yelich (blocking Santana/Braun) was more important than spending that capital to upgrade our rotation.

If you look at it from the perspective of targeting a rotation upgrade at this year's trade deadline, and understanding that both Cain and Yelich are going to be key parts of this team for the next 5 years that will change the team's overall offensive approach, the moves look a lot less curious. Look at the 2018 landscape for the NL - even if the Brewers signed multiple top FA starters this offseason, their rotation and roster wouldn't compare to what the Dodgers, Cubs, and Nationals are able to run out onto the field for 2018. 2017's 86-win team weakness last season was actually offense, not pitching. The Brewers have depth at the upper minor league and pre-arbitration MLB levels that needs to be sorted out before they know exactly what to target to improve their roster - like it or not, the best path for this organization is to throw more of their cost-controlled young pitching into the fire to see what sticks. I'll be very disappointed if Woodruff isn't in the opening day rotation solely because of this - I don't care that he still has MiLB options remaining.

Realistically, three months into this season the Brewers are going to be in the mix for a playoff spot regardless of what their opening day rotation is - depending on what the MLB landscape looks like there are going to be a bunch of veteran starters available to acquire via trade from teams. Also, no matter how the dust settles the Brewers' first five starters for 2018 are going to look better on paper than Guerra, Davies, Wily Peralta, Anderson, and Millone did to open 2017...


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