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Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #144: Proposed for 2020 Shortened Season)


Should the National League adopt the Designated Hitter?
Yes, I am in favor of the DH in the National League. 60%  60%  [ 124 ]
No, I do not want the DH in the National League. 40%  40%  [ 81 ]
Total votes : 205
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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 19, 2019, 8:25 AM Post
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Brandon Woodruff homering off of Clayton Kershaw was a top ten moment in the history of the franchise. Pitchers hitting can deliver that kind of excitement.

The fact that pitchers as a group are poor hitters doesn't mean that all of them are. And being one of the good ones can be a real factor.

And even the bad ones might be able to drop a bunt, slap it the other way to move a runner over, work a count, do things that can benefit his team.

I'll miss pitchers batting. More often, they provide no value, but when they deliver, it's pretty awesome.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 19, 2019, 8:49 AM Post
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splitterpfj said:
This should have been addressed decades ago - it makes as much sense to DH one league as it would to allow the 2 pt conversion in one NFL conference, or the 3 pt shot in one NBA conference ..... no sense at all.

The teams are competing for the same prize, so they should play by the same rules - I don't care whether that means DH or no DH, but I know the players will not surrender the DH jobs they've got, so get it over with and bring it to the NL.

It should have happened 12 years ago when Interleague play began. The idiotic compromise where the DH plays when AL team is hosting was brought to you by the brainiac commissioner Bud Selig. At least he didn’t throw his hands up and say I don’t know... Once Interleague play began there should have been a resolution, but like most leaders today it’s easier to kick the can down the road than make a tough decision...

JosephC said:
Stearns probably had no interest in getting a C because the Brewers need a C. It makes much more sense to trade for 3B when it's not needed, and then move the other 3B to 2B, then trade for a 2B, but since the 3B is now at 2B, then the new 2B goes to SS


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 19, 2019, 10:10 AM Post
Posts: 554
Location: Milwaukee
Clemente’s Dream said:
I’m so tired of DH baseball, and no one can stop the ruthless march of the lowest common denominator, so I’m giving in. I’m just going to enjoy this last year or two of real baseball before pulling the plug on 54 years of being a fan. I guess it will be lots APBA and history books on the game. You know baseball used to be number one. Now I just heard that NASCAR actually surpassed baseball in popularity (can’t believe it’s true). Whatever baseball is doing it’s failing. I’m sure the DH for the last 30 teams in America that don’t use it will save it though.

Too funny coming from someone who claims to know what *real* baseball is


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 19, 2019, 11:12 AM Post
Posts: 1170
Location: Washburn, WI
Clemente’s Dream said:
I’m so tired of DH baseball, and no one can stop the ruthless march of the lowest common denominator, so I’m giving in. I’m just going to enjoy this last year or two of real baseball before pulling the plug on 54 years of being a fan. I guess it will be lots APBA and history books on the game. You know baseball used to be number one. Now I just heard that NASCAR actually surpassed baseball in popularity (can’t believe it’s true). Whatever baseball is doing it’s failing. I’m sure the DH for the last 30 teams in America that don’t use it will save it though.


54 years of being a fan and you’re going to stop because of the Brewers getting the DH? The Brewers were in the AL through the 1997 season and obviously used a DH during those years. The Brewers have spent more time in franchise history using a DH for the pitcher than not using one.

What team were you a fan of before the 1998 season? You’ve been a fan for a long time and since DH baseball isn’t “real baseball”, what “real baseball” team did you affiliate yourself with?


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 19, 2019, 11:14 AM Post
Posts: 554
Location: Milwaukee
wntrtxn21 said:
So you're saying there is no strategy in the game. Every move made by a manager could be a "reflex" caused by a weakness. A pitcher being replaced because he is getting shelled is a true weakness. Bringing in a lefty to face a lefty is a weakness by the former pitcher. Replacing fielders for a better glove is a weakness. For those that love the DH, why not have as many DHs as a mgr. wants to hit. That way weak hitting shortstops or second basemen would never have to hit. How about weak hitting catchers. Think of the how much more "interesting" a game would be if Maldonado would only have to catch and a Kris Davis type could DH for him too. There's no end to how "interesting" you could make the game!

Comparing weak hitting *position* players with weak hitting *non-position* players (pitchers) is apples to oranges. But since you think they're comparable....

2018 MLB C - 233/304/678
2018 MLB 2b - 254/317/714
2018 MLB SS - 259/317/733

2018 MLB P - 115/144/293

Also, there are 12-13 pitchers on every team over the course of the season. 7-8 of those pitchers *never* walk to the plate (pen arms). For those who want pitchers to hit change your narrative to "I want *starting* pitchers to hit" because none of you want pen arms to hit so stop speaking in general regarding pitchers hitting.

*HALF* of pitchers PA are *currently* coming from position players (DH/pinch hitters/double switches). A NL Manager literally has two options when the starting pitcher is removed or their spot in the order comes up - pinch hitter or double switch. This isn't strategy - it's common sense. It's a basic decision made every single game by every single manager. With the DH a manager can still sub players in based on splits/career success vs a certain pitcher/pinch runner/defensive replacement/etc etc. Double switches still exist in the AL as well you just don't see it much for obvious reasons.

I'm for the DH for two main reasons - (1) pitchers are as close to an automatic out as there is and (2) I'm tired of teams having an easy escape out of an inning by intentionally walking the 8 hitter with 2 outs to get to the pitcher. It's not interesting to watch. It's depressing and boring.

*I forgot to mention if the DH is implemented for the 2022 season we can then have Dubon at 2b and Hiura at DH....both with 4yrs control still.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 19, 2019, 4:03 PM Post
Posts: 133
Humans Need Water said:
Clemente’s Dream said:
I’m so tired of DH baseball, and no one can stop the ruthless march of the lowest common denominator, so I’m giving in. I’m just going to enjoy this last year or two of real baseball before pulling the plug on 54 years of being a fan. I guess it will be lots APBA and history books on the game. You know baseball used to be number one. Now I just heard that NASCAR actually surpassed baseball in popularity (can’t believe it’s true). Whatever baseball is doing it’s failing. I’m sure the DH for the last 30 teams in America that don’t use it will save it though.

Too funny coming from someone who claims to know what *real* baseball is


Yes the lowest common denominator! Baseball has determined that it’s all about strike outs and home runs. The game used to have a variety of players and strategies. That is being slowly drained away. I for one think triples are more exciting than homers. That stolen bases are better than walks. That Rod Carew bunting is amazing. I miss the sheer variety. It’s a generic sport now. That was one of the good things about last years: the 3 inning reliever. That hasn’t been around for a while and it’s revival was awesome. Who didn’t love what Hader and Burnes and Woodruff could do?! It was great because it was different. Yes the lowest common denominator!


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 19, 2019, 4:06 PM Post
Posts: 133
RollieTime said:
Clemente’s Dream said:
I’m so tired of DH baseball, and no one can stop the ruthless march of the lowest common denominator, so I’m giving in. I’m just going to enjoy this last year or two of real baseball before pulling the plug on 54 years of being a fan. I guess it will be lots APBA and history books on the game. You know baseball used to be number one. Now I just heard that NASCAR actually surpassed baseball in popularity (can’t believe it’s true). Whatever baseball is doing it’s failing. I’m sure the DH for the last 30 teams in America that don’t use it will save it though.


54 years of being a fan and you’re going to stop because of the Brewers getting the DH? The Brewers were in the AL through the 1997 season and obviously used a DH during those years. The Brewers have spent more time in franchise history using a DH for the pitcher than not using one.

What team were you a fan of before the 1998 season? You’ve been a fan for a long time and since DH baseball isn’t “real baseball”, what “real baseball” team did you affiliate yourself with?


I didn’t follow the Brewers when they were in the AL. I was a Giants fan. And yes i’ll Stop being a fan when the DH comes to the NL. I might be totally wrong, so be it. But it’s a conviction and I do care to stick with.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 19, 2019, 5:25 PM Post
Posts: 554
Location: Milwaukee
Clemente’s Dream said:
Humans Need Water said:
Clemente’s Dream said:
I’m so tired of DH baseball, and no one can stop the ruthless march of the lowest common denominator, so I’m giving in. I’m just going to enjoy this last year or two of real baseball before pulling the plug on 54 years of being a fan. I guess it will be lots APBA and history books on the game. You know baseball used to be number one. Now I just heard that NASCAR actually surpassed baseball in popularity (can’t believe it’s true). Whatever baseball is doing it’s failing. I’m sure the DH for the last 30 teams in America that don’t use it will save it though.

Too funny coming from someone who claims to know what *real* baseball is


Yes the lowest common denominator! Baseball has determined that it’s all about strike outs and home runs. The game used to have a variety of players and strategies. That is being slowly drained away. I for one think triples are more exciting than homers. That stolen bases are better than walks. That Rod Carew bunting is amazing. I miss the sheer variety. It’s a generic sport now. That was one of the good things about last years: the 3 inning reliever. That hasn’t been around for a while and it’s revival was awesome. Who didn’t love what Hader and Burnes and Woodruff could do?! It was great because it was different. Yes the lowest common denominator!

The variety? Except hitting triples isn't a skill. Part of it is luck based on where the position player is lined up and/or the kick off the wall someone gets or OF running into each other. If everyone in the OF plays straight up then it amounts to big time speed that few have always possessed. I agree with you on the drag bunting and it's beyond annoying that more players don't do it, especially against a shift where it can be an easy hit. Sac bunting is what it is - analytics say don't give away outs. So while it was a strategy at one point that doesn't mean it was a good strategy.

Hader and Burnes threw 3 innings *once*. Woodruff did it 3x out of the pen. While it's different it's not common. It sounds like what you want is something that's different *and* common. Hey, I know what teams could try, how about defensive shifting every batter? How about putting career corner IF (3b) up the middle (2b)? If only the game was different and we saw a variety of (new) strategies, right? There's still strategy involved in the game - that's never going to change.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 19, 2019, 9:08 PM Post
Posts: 133
Yes the lowest common denominator! Baseball has determined that it’s all about strike outs and home runs. The game used to have a variety of players and strategies. That is being slowly drained away. I for one think
The variety? Except hitting triples isn't a skill. Part of it is luck based on where the position player is lined up and/or the kick off the wall someone gets or OF running into each other. If everyone in the OF plays straight up then it amounts to big time speed that few have always possessed. I agree with you on the drag bunting and it's beyond annoying that more players don't do it, especially against a shift where it can be an easy hit. Sac bunting is what it is - analytics say don't give away outs. So while it was a strategy at one point that doesn't mean it was a good strategy.

Hader and Burnes threw 3 innings *once*. Woodruff did it 3x out of the pen. While it's different it's not common. It sounds like what you want is something that's different *and* common. Hey, I know what teams could try, how about defensive shifting every batter? How about putting career corner IF (3b) up the middle (2b)? If only the game was different and we saw a variety of (new) strategies, right? There's still strategy involved in the game - that's never going to change.[/quote]

Once again, it’s the homer and the strike out that is the lowest common denominator. Yes, I get it triples are about ballparks and not a skill. Point taken, but that’s because even when it comes to ballparks there’s a generic design that’s slowly emerging. Where’s the new Polo Grounds? Where’s the modern version of the Baker Bowl? There’s variety but less of it. I definitely agree about your point about shifting—loved it! But even that the talk has already begun on restraining it. In my book conformity will always be the hobgoblin of little minds, and when a lot of people start howling for uniformity I find it ugly, limiting, and well anti-diversity . None if it matters in the end. The uniformity of the DH will win out and what I think is of no consequence.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 19, 2019, 9:41 PM Post
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Posts: 11236
If you honestly think people wanting the DH in the NL is why baseball is losing fans you are completely out of touch with reality. Nobody gives a crap about Nascar either, those are some heavily biased stats you are posting. That is showing viewership per event which is comparing like the average viewership of 90 baseball games a week compared to the one Nascar race that happens. If you want to use crooked math you can still show that baseball is more popular than football, if you look at viewership of all games for a full season baseball blows the NFL away. You have to skew things towards per game viewership to make the math come out other ways and it is a fair way to do it in many cases but it is still flawed.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 20, 2019, 8:47 AM Post
Posts: 133
Ennder said:
If you honestly think people wanting the DH in the NL is why baseball is losing fans you are completely out of touch with reality. Nobody gives a crap about Nascar either, those are some heavily biased stats you are posting. That is showing viewership per event which is comparing like the average viewership of 90 baseball games a week compared to the one Nascar race that happens. If you want to use crooked math you can still show that baseball is more popular than football, if you look at viewership of all games for a full season baseball blows the NFL away. You have to skew things towards per game viewership to make the math come out other ways and it is a fair way to do it in many cases but it is still flawed.


I’m not using math at all. I’m making personal observations. I’m not using stats to prove anything. I’m making an assertion that baseball has less variety than it had both in terms of strategies and players and ballparks,etc. if you read my post I said I didn’t believe NASCAR was more popular, I said there’s talk out there. Your reality is one thing. It is the dominate reality and it’s the winning reality. Enjoy it; revel in it. You’ve won the day. For a few of us it’s not our reality though and it’s sad and that’s all I wanted to say and i thought this was the forum to exchange those ideas.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 20, 2019, 1:20 PM Post
Posts: 554
Location: Milwaukee
Clemente’s Dream said:
Once again, it’s the homer and the strike out that is the lowest common denominator. Yes, I get it triples are about ballparks and not a skill. Point taken, but that’s because even when it comes to ballparks there’s a generic design that’s slowly emerging. Where’s the new Polo Grounds? Where’s the modern version of the Baker Bowl? There’s variety but less of it. I definitely agree about your point about shifting—loved it! But even that the talk has already begun on restraining it. In my book conformity will always be the hobgoblin of little minds, and when a lot of people start howling for uniformity I find it ugly, limiting, and well anti-diversity . None if it matters in the end. The uniformity of the DH will win out and what I think is of no consequence.

With this mind set there's no way you've been a fan of baseball for 54yrs. Baseball hasn't decided it's about K and HR. Ever think that part of the reason Ks are up is because everyone throws 97mph? Part of the reason HR are up is players are bigger, faster, stronger, more explosive. One of the reasons MLB wants to calm down shifting is because it's robbing plenty of hits resulting in less offense. The DH is one way to solve that issue.

Variety doesn't automatically equal quality. MLB has variety between DH in AL and starting pitchers hitting in the NL using double switches later in the game. But the quality of offense provided by starting pitchers hitting is poor and there's no strategy in choosing between a pinch hitter or double switch. Again, the first 2/3 of every game the AL and NL operate exactly the same strategy wise the only difference being the NL has one automatic out every time through the order.

There's always been a generic design forever when it comes to ballparks. Polo Grounds, Baker Bowl, Fenway, etc aren't the norm and never were. You can't hate on MLB for being a simple K/HR driven game today then suggest new stadiums have foul lines/gaps that are 260-300'. Players today can throw the ball farther than that.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 20, 2019, 1:34 PM Post
Posts: 1845
Sign me up for the 8 batters idea. Adding the DH will put small markets at an even bigger disadvantage.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 20, 2019, 4:00 PM Post
Posts: 133
wallus said:
Sign me up for the 8 batters idea. Adding the DH will put small markets at an even bigger disadvantage.


I agree. The DH drives up the cost of players with a less varied skill set, making it a bit harder for small markets to compete.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 20, 2019, 4:16 PM Post
Posts: 133
Humans Need Water said:
Clemente’s Dream said:
With this mind set there's no way you've been a fan of baseball for 54yrs. Baseball hasn't decided it's about K and HR. Ever think that part of the reason Ks are up is because everyone throws 97mph? Part of the reason HR are up is players are bigger, faster, stronger, more explosive. One of the reasons MLB wants to calm down shifting is because it's robbing plenty of hits resulting in less offense. The DH is one way to solve that issue.

Variety doesn't automatically equal quality. MLB has variety between DH in AL and starting pitchers hitting in the NL using double switches later in the game. But the quality of offense provided by starting pitchers hitting is poor and there's no strategy in choosing between a pinch hitter or double switch. Again, the first 2/3 of every game the AL and NL operate exactly the same strategy wise the only difference being the NL has one automatic out every time through the order.

There's always been a generic design forever when it comes to ballparks. Polo Grounds, Baker Bowl, Fenway, etc aren't the norm and never were. You can't hate on MLB for being a simple K/HR driven game today then suggest new stadiums have foul lines/gaps that are 260-300'. Players today can throw the ball farther than that.


To you first point, that sounds reasonable. I don’t doubt your point of view is on some level salient. I’m not debating the causes; I’m debating the effect. Home run-strike out driven baseball is boring to some. I also like European football better than basketball because I’m not a fan of cheap offense. So what if I like pitchers duels better than barrages of runs. It doesn’t matter.

I fundamentally disagree with your second point. I do believe that variety equals quality. You don’t agree. You’ve got every right to think so. I support your right to think so. It’s just that it’s ruining the game for me. That’s okay too. Who the heck am I?

The one thing I can say with certainty is that I do love baseball though. The fact is you don’t know me and that’s an unfair statement. I’ve played it constantly in my youth, as an adult I watch it, read about it, listen to podcasts,heck, I’ve even authored two small press books of poetry about baseball. They’re not very good and have long ago disappeared from the shelves, but they are tangible proof of my love of baseball. My ideas might be poor; you might be intellectually superior, I wouldn’t presume, but I don’t lie: I care deeply about baseball.

Take care friend.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 20, 2019, 5:40 PM Post
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Posts: 14150
Location: Milwaukee, WI
If they go eight batters in NL then it should be in AL also.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 20, 2019, 6:10 PM Post
Posts: 554
Location: Milwaukee
Clemente’s Dream said:
Humans Need Water said:
Clemente’s Dream said:
With this mind set there's no way you've been a fan of baseball for 54yrs. Baseball hasn't decided it's about K and HR. Ever think that part of the reason Ks are up is because everyone throws 97mph? Part of the reason HR are up is players are bigger, faster, stronger, more explosive. One of the reasons MLB wants to calm down shifting is because it's robbing plenty of hits resulting in less offense. The DH is one way to solve that issue.

Variety doesn't automatically equal quality. MLB has variety between DH in AL and starting pitchers hitting in the NL using double switches later in the game. But the quality of offense provided by starting pitchers hitting is poor and there's no strategy in choosing between a pinch hitter or double switch. Again, the first 2/3 of every game the AL and NL operate exactly the same strategy wise the only difference being the NL has one automatic out every time through the order.

There's always been a generic design forever when it comes to ballparks. Polo Grounds, Baker Bowl, Fenway, etc aren't the norm and never were. You can't hate on MLB for being a simple K/HR driven game today then suggest new stadiums have foul lines/gaps that are 260-300'. Players today can throw the ball farther than that.


To you first point, that sounds reasonable. I don’t doubt your point of view is on some level salient. I’m not debating the causes; I’m debating the effect. Home run-strike out driven baseball is boring to some. I also like European football better than basketball because I’m not a fan of cheap offense. So what if I like pitchers duels better than barrages of runs. It doesn’t matter.

I fundamentally disagree with your second point. I do believe that variety equals quality. You don’t agree. You’ve got every right to think so. I support your right to think so. It’s just that it’s ruining the game for me. That’s okay too. Who the heck am I?

The one thing I can say with certainty is that I do love baseball though. The fact is you don’t know me and that’s an unfair statement. I’ve played it constantly in my youth, as an adult I watch it, read about it, listen to podcasts,heck, I’ve even authored two small press books of poetry about baseball. They’re not very good and have long ago disappeared from the shelves, but they are tangible proof of my love of baseball. My ideas might be poor; you might be intellectually superior, I wouldn’t presume, but I don’t lie: I care deeply about baseball.

Take care friend.

I agree with you on some points and not on others. I'm not solely for increased offense either. Pitchers duels are equally as fun to watch as 11-10 games. But you can have both of those outcomes without the pitcher embarrassing himself in the box 2-3x per game while not sacrificing strategy in the process. That's all I'm saying.

And I personally think the number of offensive players should mirror the number of defensive players.

Good day, Sir


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 21, 2019, 7:17 AM Post
Posts: 1978
I'm on board with either DH in both or none. Thanks for the laugh to those who stomped their feet and say they're no longer going to be fans if the NL switches though, I needed a good laugh this morning.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 21, 2019, 8:44 AM Post
Posts: 12328
The game has changed since the Brewers were in the AL. As for the Brewers not being able to afford a DH? Heck if they had the DH, they'd have a role for Thames or they could bring up Hiura, move Shaw or Moose to 1B and use Aguilar at DH. Or they could keep 3 catchers and use Grandal there. Brewers are well suited to stock the position. There's still DH types that can't find a job out there.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 21, 2019, 9:07 AM Post
Posts: 3951
Clemente's Dream, I respect those point of views. I'll probably be less of a fan of MLB when the DH comes to the NL, but I definitely won't stop watching it. By the way, I recommend Strat-O-Matic over APBA.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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