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Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #144: Proposed for 2020 Shortened Season)


Should the National League adopt the Designated Hitter?
Yes, I am in favor of the DH in the National League. 60%  60%  [ 127 ]
No, I do not want the DH in the National League. 40%  40%  [ 83 ]
Total votes : 210
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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 21, 2019, 10:18 AM Post
Posts: 5154
JohnBriggs12 said:
The game has changed since the Brewers were in the AL. As for the Brewers not being able to afford a DH? Heck if they had the DH, they'd have a role for Thames or they could bring up Hiura, move Shaw or Moose to 1B and use Aguilar at DH. Or they could keep 3 catchers and use Grandal there. Brewers are well suited to stock the position. There's still DH types that can't find a job out there.


Exactly - it's not like adding a DH to the NL suddenly gives 14-16 more MLB player jobs to the league - the NL's 25 man rosters would simply adjust and some of those fringy utility guys who are glove-first players will get kicked to the curb.

Bringing a DH to the NL should be viewed as a means to improve pitcher health and further bolster offense, not as a way to increase veteran FA opportunities.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 21, 2019, 10:53 AM Post
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Interleague play began in 1997. In the initial years, it was fairly even, with the NL having a better interleague record four of the first seven years. Starting in 2003, the AL began a string of 14 straight winning years, with that streak finally being broken last year. Overall, the AL has a 3,032-2,732 record over the NL.

After the initial years of getting used to interleague play, the AL has dominated, showing that they have a decided advantage over their NL counterparts. Combine that with pitchers getting hurt doing something other than pitching, and I can't understand why NL owners haven't added the DH years ago.

To me, saying that pitchers should have to hit "because they're baseball players" is like saying the quarterback and left tackle should have to switch positions every few downs. The strategy of watching pitchers hit is akin to the strategy of watching Aaron Rodgers trying to block Mack, and it's crazy to see someone getting hurt watching him do something he has no business doing.

The Brewers missing the playoffs in 2017 largely because they had multiple pitchers hurt swinging the bat or running the bases was the straw that broke this camel's back. Bring on the DH and let's see talented players doing what they're best at doing.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: February 21, 2019, 12:18 PM Post
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Further, just because the rules allow a DH does not prevent a team from using a pitcher to bat. It just makes it very, very, very, very (I could go on) unlikely. It's not an anti-pitcher-as-batter rule, it's just an option that 100% of teams that have the option use.

I respect the stance that Clemente's Dream is taking. That's a personal decision of fandom that can't be argued and I don't think he's trying to argue with anyone, just sharing his viewpoint. It just strikes me as very odd that that's the hill that he, or any fan, would choose to die on. To me you'd have to be a very disgruntled fan already but somehow pitchers batting in the NL has kept you around? You've weathered expanded playoffs, instant replay, the shift, banning contact plays at home plate, "time savers" like limited mound visits and potential pitch clocks, but the DH is going to be the end of you? I don't really buy it, but ok I guess.


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Online  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: May 10, 2020, 6:27 PM Post

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it's possible with the potential 2020 abbreviated season.

certainly gives the brewers an advantage with ryan braun playing the majority of his games as a designated hitter (and giving lorenzo cain a spell from time to time).


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Offline  designated hitter
Posted: May 15, 2020, 12:10 PM Post
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Perhaps this has been discussed elsewhere, but I didn't see it. There is apparently a chance of the NL using a DH this year if/when play resumes. So of course I was wondering, does this help the Brewers or hurt them? Also, would love to have bitter argument about something different for a change. (No more Jimmy Nelson on the basepaths...)

We don't really have a traditional DH situation with an extra slugger who is defensively challenged, and have let go Thames, Choi, Shaw, and Aguilar who would all seem to have been the types of players I would have seen as good fits. But we do have a deep crop of position players who can play multiple roles, such that we would normally have expected to have several capable bats on the bench in any given day. I would guess we would use Braun vs LHP almost exclusively but then mix and match a bit vs RHP. Narvaez could be a good part-time DH. Does this give Nottingham or Healy a better chance of making the roster?

There's also the question of whether our competitors benefit more than Milwaukee does. Our top competitors seem to have extra position players who can hit, sadly, so maybe we lose ground relative to the Cardinals and Cubs? Curious to hear what folks think.


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Offline  Re: designated hitter
Posted: May 15, 2020, 12:41 PM Post
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Location: Ohio
There are 2 ways to approach the DH role.
1) Have a person be the regular DH (ie he is the DH 6 or 7 days a week). Generally this is a defensively challenged player or someone that seems to be injury prone anytime they play in the field. It can also be a older hitter that has lost a step or two in the field but still very good at the plate. Classic examples of this DH role: David Ortiz, Edgar Martinez, Travis Hafner, Frank Thomas, Jim Thome (later in his career), Edwin Encarnacion.

2) Rotating/ Flexible DH (ie spot floats between a group of players). In this manner the same players are in the lineup but depending on the day one of them might be the DH instead of out in the field. In this manner it helps to keep a core group of players in the lineup but still afford the players a "day-off" from the field. Some managers use this so their better players continue to play but are able to get some down time (by not playing in the field for the 2nd game of a double header or day game after a night game). Its hard to give a great example of this as players are rotating a majority of the time.

One thing to remember: the DH role takes some getting used to. Some players adapt to it better than others as players may struggle to find a routine waiting at-bat to at-bat when not going into the field regularly.

Looking at the Brewers I think the DH could be a god send to try to keep Braun healthier (by not going into the field as often) & a way to occasionally give a break to Yelich/ Cain while keeping those bats in the lineup.. Its hard to say a team has an advantage of the DH being available but it does help all teams.

You noted the Cardinals but their 'best' DH might have been Jose Martinez & he was dealt in the off season to Tampa.


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Offline  Re: designated hitter
Posted: May 15, 2020, 12:47 PM Post
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I think Braun will end up being the DH the majority of the games. This'll help keep Braun's bat in the lineup and keep him from wearing down. Instead of only playing 4-5 games a week he can play close to every game and only play the field sparingly. That way you have Yelich/Cain/Garcia with Gamel as the primary backup in the OF and split 1B between Smoak/Gyorko/Holt.


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Offline  Re: designated hitter
Posted: May 15, 2020, 1:09 PM Post
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Vgmastr said:
I think Braun will end up being the DH the majority of the games. This'll help keep Braun's bat in the lineup and keep him from wearing down. Instead of only playing 4-5 games a week he can play close to every game and only play the field sparingly. That way you have Yelich/Cain/Garcia with Gamel as the primary backup in the OF and split 1B between Smoak/Gyorko/Holt.


That sums it up pretty well. Braun was only considered for 1B because they have four starting-caliber OF. He'd probably be pretty bad defensively at first. Braun at DH, with occasional starts in the OF to rest other players lets the Brewers keep his bat in the lineup while improving their defense.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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Offline  Re: designated hitter
Posted: May 15, 2020, 1:31 PM Post
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WIth the expanded rosters think they could use another right handed bat. If Braun plays a bunch at DH could use a better 1B option when facing lefties since Gyorko would have likely played 3B in those situations anyways.


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Offline  Re: designated hitter
Posted: May 15, 2020, 2:07 PM Post
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Considering they were planning to move Braun back to RF it would be pretty major for the 2020 Brewers. He was notably brutal there compared to LF and I doubt he got better with age. It also keeps him a bit healthier, which lets be honest, he needs these days.

I think it would be fairly beneficial for us compared to other NL teams. It would definitely help out some other teams too.


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Offline  Re: designated hitter
Posted: May 15, 2020, 2:12 PM Post
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Vgmastr said:
I think Braun will end up being the DH the majority of the games. This'll help keep Braun's bat in the lineup and keep him from wearing down. Instead of only playing 4-5 games a week he can play close to every game and only play the field sparingly. That way you have Yelich/Cain/Garcia with Gamel as the primary backup in the OF and split 1B between Smoak/Gyorko/Holt.


Yup, this...

Not to say Braun can't hurt himself as a DH, he seems delicate at times, so it is entirely possible he still hits the DL a couple times during the season, but it should at the very least cut down his chances.

Someone said it above, Braun DH majority of games, if not all, Garcia, Cain and Yelich cover the OF with Gamel covering on needed days off.

Looks good to me.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: designated hitter
Posted: May 15, 2020, 2:54 PM Post
Posts: 72
I was discussing this with a body this morning. I believe Counsell is one of the best managers in the league, and I don't think it is because I am looking through rose colored Brewer goggles. I would never have said this about the managers in the 25 years prior. Anyway, my comment was anything that takes away strategy is not good for the Crew, because I think Counsell's in game moves are superior to most managers.


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Offline  Re: designated hitter
Posted: May 15, 2020, 8:16 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
Considering they were planning to move Braun back to RF it would be pretty major for the 2020 Brewers. He was notably brutal there compared to LF and I doubt he got better with age. It also keeps him a bit healthier, which lets be honest, he needs these days.

I think it would be fairly beneficial for us compared to other NL teams. It would definitely help out some other teams too.


Remember the DH hurts weaker pitching staffs. The Brewers are one of the weaker starting staffs and the pen is questionable right now. I think it hurts more than helps the Crew because they had the makings of a very good bench and have a lot of versatility. The DH takes away most of the double moves thus making the bench less relevant.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #144: Proposed for 2020 Shortened Season)
Posted: May 16, 2020, 7:18 AM Post
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The DH doesn't inhibit Counsell from any more pitching changes than he did previously. If anything it frees him to make more. There were times when Counsell had to let a pitcher bat to avoid burning too many bench bats too early. The 3 batter rule limits him, but the DH rule certainly doesn't.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
Posted: May 16, 2020, 12:46 PM Post
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djoctagone said:
it's possible with the potential 2020 abbreviated season.

certainly gives the brewers an advantage with ryan braun playing the majority of his games as a designated hitter (and giving lorenzo cain a spell from time to time).

And give Keston Hiura's elbow a rest here and there too.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #144: Proposed for 2020 Shortened Season)
Posted: May 16, 2020, 10:18 PM Post
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It's a small amount of games, Im not too worried on who bats DH and how big an advantage or disadvantage it will be. Braun seems the true fit. Hiura a fit if we're looking at Urias at 2b and Arcia SS. Really it probably fills itself out most of the time via somebody partially injured who can bat but playing defense becomes an issue.
When it comes to pitching, gone would be a decision pulling your starter for a critical early game at bat gamble. Something I wonder on having the pitchers throw 100pitches/6+IP in start. They're not going to come close to 150IP much less 200IP. Could even be talking 110-115pitches. Forget the statistics and let a guy throwing a shutout-2run game go out for another Inning. Id actually really like CC to do that this season with guys like Lauer, Houser, Peralta, Burnes if he reached SP level. Gain the experience oc throwing deep in a game on a high pitch count and see the true results vs the statistical projection. I have no care really what the team's W/L record will be this year. It's a throwaway season. The only gratification I could give towards a team winning the WS is that team did so on like a .700+ record. Just dominated. They play say 66games and win 35 and make the playoffs all the way to a WS, huge meh Asterisk. It will always be exclaimed the Covid19 season luck accomplishment. I'd have to actually be rooting for a tank season because what is the draft class going to look like in 2021? Seeing as it's gotta include bonus talent, what 1.6? times the normal draft pool? There'll be guys with 4th-6th round potential in this draft who wont be drafted and get a year to maybe improve velo a tick a two or add power that make them a 1st rd draft grade besides all the 1st rd draft grades that the 2021 class was going to have. Add in what is the situation by 2021 with Internationals and the draft?


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Online  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #144: Proposed for 2020 Shortened Season)
Posted: June 17, 2020, 6:09 PM Post

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reportedly the dh will be used in the national league for the 2020 and 2021 seasons.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #144: Proposed for 2020 Shortened Season)
Posted: June 17, 2020, 8:16 PM Post
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djoctagone said:
reportedly the dh will be used in the national league for the 2020 and 2021 seasons.


Which also means it will be almost certain that it will be in the next CBA. The writing was already on the wall that the DH would be introduced to the NL as early as 2022 with the next CBA but now it is basically going to happen.

I think this will be good for the sport and might bring in some younger fans. The game still needs to be sped up a bit but this is a step in the right direction for MLB.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #144: Proposed for 2020 Shortened Season)
Posted: June 17, 2020, 8:20 PM Post
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a bit to Late for yan Braun and Jimmy Nelson


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #144: Proposed for 2020 Shortened Season)
Posted: June 17, 2020, 8:51 PM Post
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I think the DH will work fine for Milwaukee. Braun can take a lot of at bats there. I think we have some good depth - and with the expanded rosters - that should play out well for us.


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