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Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)


Should the National League adopt the Designated Hitter?
Yes, I am in favor of the DH in the National League. 61%  61%  [ 119 ]
No, I do not want the DH in the National League. 39%  39%  [ 77 ]
Total votes : 196
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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League?
#61

Posted: February 06, 2018, 10:51 AM Post
Posts: 4267
One way or the other, MLB needs to get both of its leagues playing under the same set of rules.

I like the concept of tying the DH to a particular player at the start of a game, not necessarily to a position. 98% of the time, a DH would replace that game's starting pitcher in the lineup. However, once said pitcher leaves the game the player serving as his DH is done - he could continue in the game at his same batting order position if he's inserted into the field after said pitching move is made, with a different bench player serving as a DH/pinch hitter for the reliever the next time the removed position player's spot in the lineup comes up. As the game progresses, teams could still pinch hit for relievers using the rest of their bench, and make adjustments to their lineup/defense following typical rules accordingly. In addition, there may be ~5% of games where teams want their starting pitcher hitting, and prefer to use a DH for a weak hitting position player who plays great defense.

I think the carrot that really makes a scenario like this work is for MLB to adopt a 26-man game-day roster. This was something that the players union backed out of a few seasons ago during CBA negotiations, but it's been widely discussed and will eventually happen as well.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League?
#62

Posted: February 06, 2018, 4:11 PM Post
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The interesting question would be, if/when the NL adopts the DH, would baseball look to re-align leagues/divisions? In theory it would become more palatable to teams since rules changes wouldn't be a factor in the realignment.

Maybe not, as I recall Texas/Houston both may not be wild about being in the West divisions but I'm not sure there are any better options. Unless MLB decided to go with two 4 team West divisions and four 6 team East and Central divisions. I don't think that would fly with the majority of teams.

Edit: My math above is off, only one 6 team division would be required per league. So it would be two 4 team West divisions. Probably both East divisions stay at 5 and the Central divisions would have 6 teams each.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League?
#63

Posted: February 06, 2019, 7:51 AM Post
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Bumping this thread from last offseason, because guess what...

From an article written by Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic yesterday:

The Major League Baseball Players Association responded last Friday with its own comprehensive proposal that addressed the players’ concerns on competitive integrity and service-time manipulation in multifaceted fashion, sources said. A lowering of a team’s draft position for failing to reach a specified win total in a certain number of seasons is believed to be part of the union’s plan.

A universal designated hitter — something the players have sought for more than three decades, according to commissioner Rob Manfred — also was part of the union’s proposal. Under the plan, the National League would adopt the DH for the 2019 season.


The Cubs centric blog Bleacher Nation broke down the possible impact on each NL Central team in this article, REPORT: Players Association Has Proposed Adding DH to the NL for *THIS* Season. The Cardinals would seemingly be the team with the most to gain among the NL Central.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League?
#64

Posted: February 06, 2019, 8:01 AM Post
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madbad2000 said:
I used to be adamant against the DH in the NL. I looked forward to Milwaukee switching leagues. The game has changed and the amount of "benefit" I see with the rule is just not there. The amount of possible negative repercussions with Pitchers hitting and running bases is possibly catastrophic. The viewing pleasure of watching most pitchers hit is nearly zero if not negative. Bring it on and bring it fast so we can even it out and adjust.


This is why I like you. You think like me and save me loads of typing. [smile]


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League?
#65

Posted: February 06, 2019, 8:08 AM Post
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I would be shocked if the DH was actually added for the 2019 season. If the change is ever made I would imagine that for roster construction purposes the teams would need to start the offseason knowing the DH is being added. One thing that would be frustrating from the Brewers standpoint is Domingo Santana may have made more sense to keep on the roster if the DH was actually being implemented in 2019. I am sure many other NL teams have similar “what if” scenarios as well.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#66

Posted: February 06, 2019, 9:02 AM Post
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I would also be shocked if they made such a major rule change with such short notice. I understand what the players are hoping to accomplish, but what's the rush? I think 2020 would be soon enough.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#67

Posted: February 06, 2019, 9:23 AM Post
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If there is the DH, I would have kept Santana.

But still I wouldn't mind having the DH this season, don't want to see another Nelson type injury happen to the Brewers. The DH will probably be Braun now that Santana is gone, maybe the DH will allow Braun to play more games.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#68

Posted: February 06, 2019, 9:30 AM Post
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The Brewers still have Thames and Braun. They have Gamel. They have enough hitters.


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Online  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#69

Posted: February 06, 2019, 9:33 AM Post
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Patrick425 said:
I would also be shocked if they made such a major rule change with such short notice. I understand what the players are hoping to accomplish, but what's the rush? I think 2020 would be soon enough.

That's where I stand at the moment. I'm not super excited about adopting the DH universally, but why bring it up in February with an eye toward March implementation when NL teams would have to scramble to tweak their rosters?

I realize the pace of recent offseason markets has made it easier than before to make roster moves relatively late, but this seems like a big adjustment to make. (Mayyyybe less so for the Brewers)

Remember: the Brewers never panic like you do.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#70

Posted: February 06, 2019, 9:41 AM Post
Posts: 1648
Location: Madison, WI
DH is bad news for Brewer fans IMO. Take the players that got the most DH at-bats for AL clubs last year, and the average salary was 11.6 million dollars. Median salary was 11 million. That would have been over 10% of the Brewers payroll. There was a reason that Selig wanted out of the AL all those years ago, the DH puts small market teams at a disadvantage. Brewer fans might love it now because they can just stick Braun right in there. But they will hate it two years from now when Braun is gone and Cubs or Cardinals give a big masher a 5 year, 90 million contract...a contract the Brewers cannot afford for a guy that gives the team zero value defensively.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#71

Posted: February 06, 2019, 10:29 AM Post
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Oh please let the DH come to the National League so I don't have to watch amateur batters every 9th out of the game.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#72

Posted: February 06, 2019, 10:40 AM Post
Posts: 959
Yes to a DH. Thames and Braun would be perfect for the role.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#73

Posted: February 06, 2019, 10:45 AM Post
Posts: 4570
Location: New Berlin, WI
Oh this would be such trash to decide to add now. You can't make changes like this a week before guys report for Spring Training. This is the type of thing you decide on now, with the plan to definitely implement in 2020. This is crazy sloppy. I frankly don't really care whether they add the DH in the NL or not, but they should plan better than this.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League?
#74

Posted: February 06, 2019, 11:03 AM Post
Posts: 270
Baldkin said:
I don't like watching pitchers hit. They are terrible at it. I don't like watching pitchers get hurt running the bases, they are terrible at it.

I am completely in favor of the DH.


Why stop with just one DH? Why not go all the way! Raise the rosters to 40 and have offense, defensive, and designated pinch runners. 9 DHs, 9 defenders, and designated pinch runners. That way NO good hitter ever gets hurt running the bases, you always have your best 9 hitters in the game and your best 8 defenders along with a pitcher. Players' union would love it because there would be more jobs.
Pitchers hit maybe twice a game in the NL. In the modern game there are every-day players who whiff 30-35% of their ABs and hit under .200 regularly. The uniqueness and strategy of the NL game far out weighs any argument for a DH.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#75

Posted: February 06, 2019, 11:13 AM Post
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I'm ok with the DH but I'd give every player a limited amount of AB (200?) in the role so that the spot would be more used to rest players rather than giving a job to old dinosauros or players with no role on defense.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#76

Posted: February 06, 2019, 11:34 AM Post
Posts: 149
I used to be totally against the DH period, but I've pretty much 180'd the last few seasons. The Nelson injury was the last straw for me. Get it done for 2020!


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#77

Posted: February 06, 2019, 11:44 AM Post
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hawing said:
Patrick425 said:
I would also be shocked if they made such a major rule change with such short notice. I understand what the players are hoping to accomplish, but what's the rush? I think 2020 would be soon enough.

That's where I stand at the moment. I'm not super excited about adopting the DH universally, but why bring it up in February with an eye toward March implementation when NL teams would have to scramble to tweak their rosters?

I realize the pace of recent offseason markets has made it easier than before to make roster moves relatively late, but this seems like a big adjustment to make. (Mayyyybe less so for the Brewers)

I'm assuming it's being brought up in the context of implementing it in 2019 as a negotiation tactic for MLB wanting to install more pace of play rules changes to be implemented for 2019. Of course it doesn't make sense to do it right now but that's not really the point.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#78

Posted: February 06, 2019, 11:48 AM Post
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cesser000 said:
I used to be totally against the DH period, but I've pretty much 180'd the last few seasons. The Nelson injury was the last straw for me. Get it done for 2020!

Yeah, I can't really think of many reasons for keeping the status quo. Tradition? Ok sure but the logical reasons to make the change (even playing field for both leagues, avoiding pitcher injury) just seem to vastly outweigh the sentimental reasons for not making the change.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #63: Proposed for 2019 by MLBPA)
#79

Posted: February 06, 2019, 11:54 AM Post
Posts: 552
Location: Washburn, WI
Adding it for 2020 makes a lot more sense than for 2019. We went through an entire offseason building a roster with guys that fit the team to operate without a DH.

If Stearns knew the DH was coming, he could of signed someone like Michael Brantley and moved Braun to DH. Changing it now after the offseason is done and the rosters are mostly set would not sit well with front offices in my opinion.

If the DH was implemented for 2019, then sign Moustakas right away knowing that he will give you quality at bats and be in the lineup everyday.


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Offline  Re: Designated Hitter in the National League?
#80

Posted: February 06, 2019, 12:08 PM Post
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wntrtxn21 said:
Baldkin said:
I don't like watching pitchers hit. They are terrible at it. I don't like watching pitchers get hurt running the bases, they are terrible at it.

I am completely in favor of the DH.


Why stop with just one DH? Why not go all the way! Raise the rosters to 40 and have offense, defensive, and designated pinch runners. 9 DHs, 9 defenders, and designated pinch runners. That way NO good hitter ever gets hurt running the bases, you always have your best 9 hitters in the game and your best 8 defenders along with a pitcher. Players' union would love it because there would be more jobs.
Pitchers hit maybe twice a game in the NL. In the modern game there are every-day players who whiff 30-35% of their ABs and hit under .200 regularly. The uniqueness and strategy of the NL game far out weighs any argument for a DH.


Yep. The arguments FOR a DH are the ones that don't make sense. That said, since it's way too late to eliminate the DH, I'd 100% be in favor of the DH only for the starting pitcher idea mentioned several times in this thread.

This would be a slight concession to the traditionalists who really like the idea of starting pitchers and hate the idea of "bullpenning" as it would add incentive to leaving your starting pitcher in as long as possible in order to keep the DH in the game (or at least keep the DH from having to play the field).

It keeps almost all the strategy of the NL AND pretty much eliminates the possibility of pitchers having to hit. If you add a roster spot it would almost guarantee a pitcher never hits except in the case of extra inning games. If the AL is too addicted to their current permanent use of the DH, just have this rule in the NL for a few years to see how it works.


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