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Making a case for an early promotion of Corbin Burnes

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Offline  Re: Making a case for an early promotion of Corbin Burnes
#61

Posted: June 20, 2018, 12:28 PM Post
Posts: 3466
Location: Madison, WI
cmow said:
It absolutely drives me nuts how the Brewers jerk around their top pitching prospects. It’d be one thing if they called up Burnes and had him pitch out of the bullpen the rest of the season. But history tells me they’ll have him come up for a little bit, pitch a game or two, move him back down to CS and have him start, then bring him back up to pitch out of the pen, then send him back to CS to start. They’ve been doing that with Woodruff. They did it with Peralta awhile ago and it seemed like it set him back. They did it with Thornburg and he ended up getting hurt. Why can’t they just let their starters start? Are there really so few bullpen options that there isn’t a better choice than Burnes?


If I'm Burnes, I think I am thinking -- 'Wow, this is cool. What an opportunity!? How great is it that my bosses recognize my talent even though I'm having a tough year in this Hell-for-Pitchers that they call Colorado Springs?' not 'Wow, they are jerking me around'

Why do you say it seemed to set Peralta back?

There are plenty of bullpen options, but Burnes is talented and they want to put the best players on the field.


And don't forget the money from being on the big league roster. That's probably huge for guys at his point who've been making nothing so far.


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Offline  Re: Making a case for an early promotion of Corbin Burnes
#62

Posted: June 20, 2018, 12:36 PM Post
Posts: 4138
How does pitching in Milwaukee vs Colorado Springs affect a pitcher's arm?


I don’t know. How?

My point was not going from Milwaukee to CS and back. My point was going from starter to reliever back to starter back to reliever.

Is Bunes a given to be in the rotation? Maybe a probable, but he ( like many) is not doing well at Col Springs. He very well could be a help in the second half in a shortened role. If he is throwing 95-97, a jump to Milwaukee in a mop up role might be the better move for him than just to keep accruing innings in a hitter haven or demoting him to AA or the pen in the minors


As I said, it’s one thing to bring up a starter and throw him in the bullpen and keep him there. It’s another to constantly shuffle him between the rotation and the bullpen. People keep bringing up the Cardinals. I don’t follow the Cardinals. I don’t know if they constantly shuffle their young guys between the rotation and the bullpen or if they simply bring up starters and put them in the pen for awhile. But as I said this was done to both Thornburg and (Wily) Peralta, two our better starting pitching prospects in the last decade, and it seemed to affect them both negatively. Peraltas numbers got significantly worse that year and Thornburg ended up getting hurt. I don’t know if was just a coincidence but what’s the point of risking it?

Corbin Burnes is far and away one of our two best starting pitching prospects. He’s viewed as a starter down the road. As I said I just don’t see point of doing this right now. Do we have no better relief options? (Nick Ramirez anyone)? If you want to simply get his feet wet because he’s pitching so well in CS (he’s not really) and have no better options, then fine bring him up. But keep him in the bullpen and let him get used to going shorter stints for more games. Dont keep flipping him back and forth. How does that help his development?


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Offline  Re: Making a case for an early promotion of Corbin Burnes
#63

Posted: June 20, 2018, 12:41 PM Post
Posts: 3466
Location: Madison, WI
Because it will limit his innings this year, which has to happen anyway. And he'd get out of CS and up to the big leagues under the coaching of what seems to a heck of a pitching coach. Plus, gaining major league experience (both in game but also just how everything works) so he's more comfortable next year.


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Offline  Re: Making a case for an early promotion of Corbin Burnes
#64

Posted: June 20, 2018, 12:57 PM Post
Posts: 4138
Because it will limit his innings this year, which has to happen anyway. And he'd get out of CS and up to the big leagues under the coaching of what seems to a heck of a pitching coach. Plus, gaining major league experience (both in game but also just how everything works) so he's more comfortable next year.


I’m obviously not making my point clearly enough.

I don’t care if they bring him up and stick him in bullpen if it’s a long term move (long term being at least 6-7 weeks). I disagree that we need to start limiting his innings in June but whatever. I also disagree that this move has anything to do with getting him major league coaching but again whatever. And finally given that we are currently in a tight battle for first place now isn’t the time to worry about getting our prospects “experience”. That’s what September is for.

My issue stems from (admittedly an assumption) the fact that if this does indeed happen he will likely spend a short time in Milwaukee’s bullpen and then go back to the rotation in CS. And it wouldn’t surprise me in the least bit if they then bring him back to Milwaukee’s bullpen if he pitches ok only to send him back down to the CS rotation. It’s what they do. I don’t like it. Others can disagree but I don’t think doing that it is in the best interest of the player. I think you either a) keep him in CS until/unless we need someone to start a game or b) bring him up and put him in the bullpen with the understanding that that’s where he’ll be for the remainder or the majority or the remainder of the year.


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Offline  Re: Making a case for an early promotion of Corbin Burnes
#65

Posted: June 20, 2018, 2:32 PM Post
Posts: 7599
Others can disagree but I don’t think doing that it is in the best interest of the player. I think you either a) keep him in CS until/unless we need someone to start a game or b) bring him up and put him in the bullpen with the understanding that that’s where he’ll be for the remainder or the majority or the remainder of the year.


Yes, I will disagree. There is no evidence, none, that would indicate bouncing a player back and forth from starter to BP would increase chances of injury. There is also no evidence that that bouncing a player from the BP in Milwaukee back to a starter in CS hurts a pitcher's development.

There is no room in the rotation at the moment, possibly all year for Burnes. But he may be able to help them in the pen at some point. I'm not sure where the problem is there? Burnes gets some MLB experience, and the Brewers get another effective arm in the pen. Sorry, I just don't see any down-side.


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Offline  Re: Making a case for an early promotion of Corbin Burnes
#66

Posted: June 20, 2018, 2:51 PM Post
Posts: 3466
Location: Madison, WI
paul253 said:
Because it will limit his innings this year, which has to happen anyway. And he'd get out of CS and up to the big leagues under the coaching of what seems to a heck of a pitching coach. Plus, gaining major league experience (both in game but also just how everything works) so he's more comfortable next year.


I’m obviously not making my point clearly enough.

I don’t care if they bring him up and stick him in bullpen if it’s a long term move (long term being at least 6-7 weeks). I disagree that we need to start limiting his innings in June but whatever. I also disagree that this move has anything to do with getting him major league coaching but again whatever. And finally given that we are currently in a tight battle for first place now isn’t the time to worry about getting our prospects “experience”. That’s what September is for.

My issue stems from (admittedly an assumption) the fact that if this does indeed happen he will likely spend a short time in Milwaukee’s bullpen and then go back to the rotation in CS. And it wouldn’t surprise me in the least bit if they then bring him back to Milwaukee’s bullpen if he pitches ok only to send him back down to the CS rotation. It’s what they do. I don’t like it. Others can disagree but I don’t think doing that it is in the best interest of the player. I think you either a) keep him in CS until/unless we need someone to start a game or b) bring him up and put him in the bullpen with the understanding that that’s where he’ll be for the remainder or the majority or the remainder of the year.


You're making a lot of leaps though. The things you're talking about might happen but we don't know yet. I'm just saying wait and see instead of rushing towards a negative view before it happens. You're talking about September, that could exactly be what they're doing here. They know he's ahead on innings, so a bit of a break doing this right now while giving some relief experience, all so that he has innings available come September. Or it could be including him in the up and down rotation they're doing with the Housers, Woodruff, Peralta, etc. We don't know, so really nothing to get worked up about either way.

And you asked about how's it good for development, I said why pitching in the bigs is good for it including the coach and you just dismissed it.


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Offline  Re: Making a case for an early promotion of Corbin Burnes
#67

Posted: June 23, 2018, 1:56 PM Post
Posts: 15505
It just seems a little unnecessary right now. You've got Nick Ramirez continuing to dominate AAA batters, or if you prefer, Torres-Costa would need to be added to the 40 after this year and might be worth a look now. There are other ways to limit innings for Burnes this year while still keeping him on a starter schedule. There's no rush to put him on the 40.

It's not that huge of a deal to me but I would probably give one of the two previously mentioned a shot first.


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