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Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL

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Online  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#21

Posted: May 09, 2018, 10:31 AM Post
Posts: 13236
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Roderick said:
reillymcshane said:
And little Nate Orf spends another night crying into the shoulder of ragged and worn teddy bear.


I think there are just so many moving parts right now that Stearns probably doesn't want to put Orf on the 40 man roster, and then something else happens.

As it is, Dubon is going to take up a spot on the 40 man, as they won't put him on the 60 day DL list.

Keep hitting Orf, and by the end of the month the picture will have cleared up.


I think you mean Franklin here.

But that brings up a good point. Dubon is on the 40-man, and will likely be placed on the 60-day DL, opening up a 40-man spot for someone.


He won’t though unfortunately because they would have to promote him to MLB and pay him a MLB salary to do that and they won’t do it. Same situation with Houser last year.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#22

Posted: May 09, 2018, 10:35 AM Post
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adambr2 said:

He won’t though unfortunately because they would have to promote him to MLB and pay him a MLB salary to do that and they won’t do it. Same situation with Houser last year.


I stand corrected. DL rules are odd.


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Online  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#23

Posted: May 09, 2018, 10:35 AM Post
Posts: 261
bill hAll Star said:
Jaylyn said:
So I guess the only way Orf gets the call is if Saladino gets a hernia from lifting his suitcase. You know this has got to undercut Orf's confidence. All he has done is exceed expectations at every level and still gets ZERO respect. To perform like he has and still get passed over TWICE in favor of castoffs from other clubs is sickening!!


I wouldn't really call a .773 OPS at A+ and a .707 collective OPS at AA "exceeding expectations" for a guy that was 24, 25, and 26 years old at those levels.

If Orf was in the majors at those ages like Franklin, Saladino, Sogard, etc., it's possible that he'd be at Ivan De Jesus status of toiling away in AAA and never expected to see the majors again for eternity (with nobody taking issue with it).


Considering he wasn't even drafted, yeah I would say he has exceeded expectations!


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#24

Posted: May 09, 2018, 10:44 AM Post
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Would be a tough pill for the brewers to swallow to have a big chunk of Dubon's mlb service time eaten up by spending time on the mlb 60 day dl rehabbing an ACL surgery, too.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#25

Posted: May 09, 2018, 10:52 AM Post
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Jaylyn said:
bill hAll Star said:
Jaylyn said:
So I guess the only way Orf gets the call is if Saladino gets a hernia from lifting his suitcase. You know this has got to undercut Orf's confidence. All he has done is exceed expectations at every level and still gets ZERO respect. To perform like he has and still get passed over TWICE in favor of castoffs from other clubs is sickening!!


I wouldn't really call a .773 OPS at A+ and a .707 collective OPS at AA "exceeding expectations" for a guy that was 24, 25, and 26 years old at those levels.

If Orf was in the majors at those ages like Franklin, Saladino, Sogard, etc., it's possible that he'd be at Ivan De Jesus status of toiling away in AAA and never expected to see the majors again for eternity (with nobody taking issue with it).


Considering he wasn't even drafted, yeah I would say he has exceeded expectations!


Sure, expectations for him and not of an MLB player. Orf may be next up and just in waiting due to 40 man constraints currently, but he has been repeatedly passed up by every other team in the rule 5 and by the Brewers to call up. It's possible that all of the baseball people are wrong, but there seems to be something that they don't like over the interested fan seeing a try-hard/professional hitting older prospect with inflated Colorado Springs numbers that fans generally seem to fall in love with.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#26

Posted: May 09, 2018, 12:09 PM Post
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I have been a proponent of giving Orf a chance to play, but I don't want to oversell the guy. At this best, he will likely have limited value. He just doesn't have the skillset to make him anything special. He won't hit for power, he doesn't have game-changing speed, and his arm isn't great - which limits his ability to play SS.

He does offer a skillset that might - and I stress 'might' - help the team. He has generally be a consistent hitter - a solid batting average, a decent walk rate, and limited splits - meaning he could play full time.

Personally, I think the revolving door of 2B is just a mess. I'd rather give one guy the job and see how he can do.

If Orf got called him, he's probably likely to do poorly than do well. Actually, probably more likely to do poorly than do well. But it's not like all the other guys are lighting the world on fire. So I'm open to taking the risk.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#27

Posted: May 09, 2018, 12:35 PM Post

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And That said:
The Brewers will avoid placing Dubon on the 60-day if they can. He would earn a major league paycheck and accrue service time if he's placed on the 60-day. He doesn't if he's on the minor league 7-day DL for the rest of the year.

i can't ever recall the brewers recalling an injured player (not to report) and putting him on the 60-day disabled list. johnny hellweg was a candidate a few years back, but the brewers never took advantage of such.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#28

Posted: May 09, 2018, 3:11 PM Post
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djoctagone said:
And That said:
The Brewers will avoid placing Dubon on the 60-day if they can. He would earn a major league paycheck and accrue service time if he's placed on the 60-day. He doesn't if he's on the minor league 7-day DL for the rest of the year.

i can't ever recall the brewers recalling an injured player (not to report) and putting him on the 60-day disabled list. johnny hellweg was a candidate a few years back, but the brewers never took advantage of such.

Did we do something like this with Yhonathan Barrios? I don't think we recalled him, but we put him on the DL in Spring Training so we could have the extra roster spot?


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#29

Posted: May 09, 2018, 3:14 PM Post
Posts: 7859
Location: Kenosha, WI
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
JosephC said:
Why would having another shortstop even be that big of an issue with Arcia, Perez and Villar already on the 25-man? Arcia is the everyday guy. Perez can sub when he needs a day off. Villar can serve as the emergency situation shortstop. Should be looking at offensive contribution way ahead of needing a fourth player that can play shortstop.


Villar can play SS nearly the same way Braun "can" play 3B


Awful comparison. Villar can competently play SS...not well, but lightyears better than Braun at 3B. If his bat was 2016 version scouts didn’t have much issue with Villar at SS.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#30

Posted: May 09, 2018, 3:31 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
JosephC said:
Why would having another shortstop even be that big of an issue with Arcia, Perez and Villar already on the 25-man? Arcia is the everyday guy. Perez can sub when he needs a day off. Villar can serve as the emergency situation shortstop. Should be looking at offensive contribution way ahead of needing a fourth player that can play shortstop.


Villar can play SS nearly the same way Braun "can" play 3B


Awful comparison. Villar can competently play SS...not well, but lightyears better than Braun at 3B. If his bat was 2016 version scouts didn’t have much issue with Villar at SS.


Interesting enough that he started not hitting when being asked to flip positions. Might be a morning burger but ya never know. And I agree. Awful comparison.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#31

Posted: May 09, 2018, 3:34 PM Post
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Brew4U said:

Interesting enough that he started not hitting when being asked to flip positions. Might be a morning burger but ya never know. And I agree. Awful comparison.


Perhaps an extreme comparison, just saying there's a reason Villar hasn't appeared at SS since 2016.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#32

Posted: May 09, 2018, 3:40 PM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Brew4U said:

Interesting enough that he started not hitting when being asked to flip positions. Might be a morning burger but ya never know. And I agree. Awful comparison.


Perhaps an extreme comparison, just saying there's a reason Villar hasn't appeared at SS since 2016.


Yeah I think it’s a mistake by the Brewers in doing so. When Arcia is out, he should be sliding over to short. Not inserting a bum like Sogard.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#33

Posted: May 09, 2018, 4:38 PM Post
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Fear The Chorizo said:
Would be a tough pill for the brewers to swallow to have a big chunk of Dubon's mlb service time eaten up by spending time on the mlb 60 day dl rehabbing an ACL surgery, too.


Why, do you expect him to be a star? Service time really only matters for guys who play to an All Star level or strongly outperform their positon's value. I've never seen anyone have that kind of crystal ball out on Dubon. We're talking about Mauricio Dubon here, not Kris Bryant. The chances of service time mattering for him are slim and none.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#34

Posted: May 09, 2018, 5:40 PM Post
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TigerUppercut said:
Fear The Chorizo said:
Would be a tough pill for the brewers to swallow to have a big chunk of Dubon's mlb service time eaten up by spending time on the mlb 60 day dl rehabbing an ACL surgery, too.


Why, do you expect him to be a star? Service time really only matters for guys who play to an All Star level or strongly outperform their positon's value. I've never seen anyone have that kind of crystal ball out on Dubon. We're talking about Mauricio Dubon here, not Kris Bryant. The chances of service time mattering for him are slim and none.


Fact he is a promising prospect is good enough for me. What if he does become a big time player (never know, baseball is all ifs) he just cost a year of control which impacts both time he could stay here along with trade value down road. Brewers really like him & outside of not walking at all, he was hitting both at home & on the road very well up to injury.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#35

Posted: May 09, 2018, 6:28 PM Post
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reillymcshane said:
djoctagone said:
And That said:
The Brewers will avoid placing Dubon on the 60-day if they can. He would earn a major league paycheck and accrue service time if he's placed on the 60-day. He doesn't if he's on the minor league 7-day DL for the rest of the year.

i can't ever recall the brewers recalling an injured player (not to report) and putting him on the 60-day disabled list. johnny hellweg was a candidate a few years back, but the brewers never took advantage of such.

Did we do something like this with Yhonathan Barrios? I don't think we recalled him, but we put him on the DL in Spring Training so we could have the extra roster spot?


I think Barrios was hurt before he was optioned, so they didn't have a choice.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#36

Posted: May 10, 2018, 6:21 AM Post

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bork is correct. barrios was in major league camp and the injury occurred before being optioned. thus, barrios was essentially on the major league roster at the time of his injury.

when the injury occurs while optioned, the player can do on the minor league 7-day disabled list, and remain there indefinitely if need be.


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Online  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#37

Posted: May 10, 2018, 7:07 AM Post
Posts: 13236
Are there any teams that just bring the guy up to stash him on the 60?

There’s still plenty of dead weight on this 40 (Sogard, Franklin, Saladino) where I don’t think the spots are at that much of a premium, but I could see there being points in a 40 man roster crunch where you’re past the “Super 2” cutoff and the spot is more valuable than service days and a couple hundred grand.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#38

Posted: May 10, 2018, 7:16 AM Post
Posts: 1560
TigerUppercut said:
Fear The Chorizo said:
Would be a tough pill for the brewers to swallow to have a big chunk of Dubon's mlb service time eaten up by spending time on the mlb 60 day dl rehabbing an ACL surgery, too.


Why, do you expect him to be a star? Service time really only matters for guys who play to an All Star level or strongly outperform their positon's value. I've never seen anyone have that kind of crystal ball out on Dubon. We're talking about Mauricio Dubon here, not Kris Bryant. The chances of service time mattering for him are slim and none.


Maybe you have extra millions of dollars laying around in your sock drawer, but service time matters to the Brewers. Basically, you are paying a player a year sooner than you would have had to. So year 3 of playing is first year of arby, instead of min. wage. Each year of arby is more pay. And you lose the player control a year earlier than you would have had to.

Since you think Dubon is not anything special, you might still want to take a look at what Perez ($1.975) and Villar ($2.55) are receiving their first year out of min. wage. Quite a jump from high $500Ks that players make the last year the team can keep them at min. wage.


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Offline  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#39

Posted: May 10, 2018, 8:05 AM Post
Posts: 87
reillymcshane said:
I have been a proponent of giving Orf a chance to play, but I don't want to oversell the guy. At this best, he will likely have limited value. He just doesn't have the skillset to make him anything special. He won't hit for power, he doesn't have game-changing speed, and his arm isn't great - which limits his ability to play SS.

He does offer a skillset that might - and I stress 'might' - help the team. He has generally be a consistent hitter - a solid batting average, a decent walk rate, and limited splits - meaning he could play full time.

Personally, I think the revolving door of 2B is just a mess. I'd rather give one guy the job and see how he can do.

If Orf got called him, he's probably likely to do poorly than do well. Actually, probably more likely to do poorly than do well. But it's not like all the other guys are lighting the world on fire. So I'm open to taking the risk.


I agree that Orf is nothing special, but I think he's capable of something like a .700 OPS, which sadly would be a significant upgrade in the bottom of the lineup. He's also a guy who takes walks which this lineup also could use.

His defense is solid and he can play a number of other positions if it's needed. A Villar and Orf platoon at 2nd seems so obvious, I can't believe they haven't done it yet.


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Online  Re: Knebel activated/Saladino called up/Miley & Franklin 10-day DL
#40

Posted: May 10, 2018, 2:14 PM Post
Posts: 13236
Woodruff getting the call up for the injured Miley per McCalvy. At least, he’s starting tomorrow.


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