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Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)

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Online  Re: Schoop news
Posted: November 30, 2018, 5:37 PM Post
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Location: Three Lakes, WI
markedman5 said:
Like this kind of accountability from Stearns

David Stearns looking at the Schoop trade in hindsight: "Look, it was a bad deal, and that's on me. We made a trade for a player we thought was going to be here for a year and a half, and I was wrong."


Love the honesty. Now time to move on and find a better fit. No shortage of options available.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
Posted: November 30, 2018, 5:46 PM Post
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Bad deal is so right. Stearns has done a very good job in his deals but Schoop wasn't a good fit and the cost was too high. Gotta respect David for admitting it.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
Posted: November 30, 2018, 5:49 PM Post
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That's very refreshing of Stearns to admit he whiffed.

I will also add that a statement like that pretty much forecloses the possibility of Schoop coming back at a lower price. Clearly, the Brewers did not like what they saw in his time here.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
Posted: November 30, 2018, 6:07 PM Post
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rcc said:
but Schoop wasn't a good fit


This is the real issue. You will guess wrong on some moves or non-moves, but you have to make the moves for the right reasons. Once they decided to acquire Moustakas and play Shaw at 2B, they should have crossed Schoop off the list. In a vacuum, I would have been fine with taking the gamble, and even with gambling on him again next year, but I think they had an itchy trigger finger at the deadline and that's not a good way to operate.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
Posted: November 30, 2018, 6:17 PM Post
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LouisEly said:
Specifically, people irrationally overvalue sunk costs and undervalue opportunity costs. What Schoop was traded for is a sunk cost. It's gone, and nothing will change that. In business, you should never make decisions based on sunk costs. This is also why people lose more money gambling than they should - they try to "make it up" by playing longer or trying another game, but rarely does it work; they are making decisions based on sunk costs (earlier gambling losses).

People should make decisions based on opportunity costs. That is the question here - what is the opportunity cost of resigning Schoop? Is there someone else they can get who will likely be a better value (value defined as production compared to salary)?


Excellent post. I'm always advising people about getting hung up on sunk costs (in a different context to those that you mentioned).

Like everyone else, I'm glad that Stearns is owning this and, I'm sure, will be that much better a GM for the experience.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 6:26 PM Post
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You don't usually see comments like that from GMs! I suspect the front office is/was unsurprisingly upset with Schoop about how badly he disappeared in the second half.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 6:40 PM Post
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It really is too bad that his arby number was going to be so high. As others have rightfully said and the Brewers obviously determined, the price made bringing him back really tough for the Brewers to do. I have little doubt that he'll return to being a respectable 2B somewhere else, but for 10 million the Brewers would have needed to be sure he'd be more than just that.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 6:44 PM Post
Posts: 2875
Makes you wonder how much they hated Villar.

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 6:51 PM Post
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PinaMadness said:
Makes you wonder how much they hated Villar.


They should love Villar. He saved them $30M-$40M easily.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 6:51 PM Post
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Now I'm fully expecting next year's al or nl 2b silver slugger to get awarded to Schoop, given brewer luck with sending MIF's packing after disappointing production.

Hopefully both the brewers and Schoop benefit from this move, provided schoop's career year isn't with someone else in the nl central so we have to watch him kill the brewers in 2019.

Hiura isn't far away, and frankly they still have enough internal options to play 2nd until super 2 passes without spending any more on the position if that's the route they plan to take.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 6:54 PM Post
Posts: 888
It seems to me that more and more arbitration numbers are not equaling a player's value


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Offline  Re: Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 7:49 PM Post
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stalton said:
It seems to me that more and more arbitration numbers are not equaling a player's value


The arbitration system is broken, due in part, because it's based on rewarding antiquated stats like HR's and RBI's.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
Posted: November 30, 2018, 8:12 PM Post
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coolhandluke121 said:
rcc said:
but Schoop wasn't a good fit


This is the real issue. You will guess wrong on some moves or non-moves, but you have to make the moves for the right reasons. Once they decided to acquire Moustakas and play Shaw at 2B, they should have crossed Schoop off the list. In a vacuum, I would have been fine with taking the gamble, and even with gambling on him again next year, but I think they had an itchy trigger finger at the deadline and that's not a good way to operate.


If Schoop had a .900 OPS for the Brewers there'd be no talk of "fit". He didn't hit. Period. If he had he'd have been a fit.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 8:13 PM Post
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stalton said:
It seems to me that more and more arbitration numbers are not equaling a player's value


Great thing is that the team doesn't have to pay it....


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Offline  Re: Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 8:22 PM Post
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stalton said:
It seems to me that more and more arbitration numbers are not equaling a player's value


The good players get underpaid. The mediocre or worse ones get overpaid.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 8:52 PM Post
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stalton said:
It seems to me that more and more arbitration numbers are not equaling a player's value


Take a look at the players that didn't get tendered today. We're not talking all stars, but many 25 man roster quality players were released. Since these guys are generally younger and will be much cheaper than the other free agents it will interesting to see how much their presence gums things up for the over 30 crowd.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
Posted: November 30, 2018, 8:52 PM Post
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homer said:
coolhandluke121 said:
rcc said:
but Schoop wasn't a good fit


This is the real issue. You will guess wrong on some moves or non-moves, but you have to make the moves for the right reasons. Once they decided to acquire Moustakas and play Shaw at 2B, they should have crossed Schoop off the list. In a vacuum, I would have been fine with taking the gamble, and even with gambling on him again next year, but I think they had an itchy trigger finger at the deadline and that's not a good way to operate.


If Schoop had a .900 OPS for the Brewers there'd be no talk of "fit". He didn't hit. Period. If he had he'd have been a fit.


I don't agree with that logic at all. That would make him a bad fit who worked out great anyway. Fit isn't judged by hindsight; it's judged by roster balance. And in terms of judging the reasoning for their decisions (as opposed to evaluating them in hindsight), crossing your fingers and hoping he hits .900 doesn't hold water anyway.

Villar was actually a far better fit than Schoop. And in keeping in the theme with not judging fit by hindsight, that's not because he actually did hit better than Schoop the rest of the way; it's because he could reasonably be expected to be better against LHP's and have some pinch-running value, because he actually has much more SS experience at the MLB level, and because he was already on the stinkin' team and wouldn't cost them any prospects.

Long story short, it was a real confusing trade even at the time and many people said so. The fact that he did so poorly that it rendered all other concerns moot doesn't change the fact that those concerns were valid and it was a highly questionable move to begin with. There was far too great a chance that Villar would be better the rest of the year, and that's before even factoring in the prospect cost.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 8:53 PM Post
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trwi7 said:
stalton said:
It seems to me that more and more arbitration numbers are not equaling a player's value


The good players get underpaid. The mediocre or worse ones get overpaid.


They all get underpaid within the context of professional baseball salaries. The possibly exception is guys like Schoop who have multiple good seasons worth of stats, but then nosedive right before the next season and thus carry a lot of risk.

But the reason so many players get non-tendered is because teams can find replacements who are even more underpaid.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
Posted: November 30, 2018, 9:45 PM Post
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Location: At the gettin' place
homer said:
coolhandluke121 said:
rcc said:
but Schoop wasn't a good fit


This is the real issue. You will guess wrong on some moves or non-moves, but you have to make the moves for the right reasons. Once they decided to acquire Moustakas and play Shaw at 2B, they should have crossed Schoop off the list. In a vacuum, I would have been fine with taking the gamble, and even with gambling on him again next year, but I think they had an itchy trigger finger at the deadline and that's not a good way to operate.


If Schoop had a .900 OPS for the Brewers there'd be no talk of "fit". He didn't hit. Period. If he had he'd have been a fit.


Thank you Johnnie Cochran.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)
Posted: November 30, 2018, 11:54 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
I’m not a fan of the comments by Stearns. For me, it’s fine to realize and think those things. Don’t see a need to make the comment. Just do your job better.


Last edited by Brew4U on December 01, 2018, 12:08 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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