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Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)

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Online  Re: Schoop news
#41

Posted: October 24, 2018, 1:04 PM Post
Posts: 11097
HiAndTight said:
And how many AB's and asteriks are we gonna put on him to try and argue otherwise? His BA when he comes into a game using only his first AB? Why? Why just his first AB? And he was...like 12 for 28 or something pinch hitting tihs year. Not sure exactly, but it was like a weeks worth of regular playing time. Not EXACTLY logical to compare it to his career numbers...or use it in any argument at all IMO.


I gave you about every sporadic playing time stat you could want. I gave "just his first AB" and then also showed you the stats that would include additional ABs. I gave you this years numbers and I gave you his career numbers for PHing.

To say of someone struggled due to sporadic playing time, but at that same time mashes like Barry Bonds as a PHer seems a tad far-fetched in my mind. Did it help his cause at the start of the year when he lost playing time? No, probably not...but at that point I thinking it was just kicking him while he was already down. He was already hitting for no power...not like that made it any worse.

Really looking back he wasn't even hitting that bad when he stopped playing much. Yah his OPS was .701, but he lost his playing time after a really solid month of May.


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#42

Posted: October 24, 2018, 1:07 PM Post
Posts: 4356
Location: Madison, WI
True Blue Brew Crew said:
Given Hiura and Arcia's right-handedness, the ideal placeholder at 2B, who would then back up all over the IF, would be a LHB. I think you start there when taking a stab at who will be added to the roster this offseason. Could come via free agency or via trade. You can't allocate too much salary to said placeholder because the team has a lot of work to do to get LHP into the IOG mix next year. Thus why Schoop and Moustakas aren't realistic at their salaries, much less their difficulty making consistent contact.


However, the spot he'd more likely to be platooned or played would be for Shaw so then RH would be good. Kind of a catch 22. I'd hope for someone without drastic splits if possible.


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#43

Posted: October 24, 2018, 1:11 PM Post
Posts: 3664
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Schoop is basically Jesus Aguilar with the athleticism to play 2B. I have no doubt that he is capable of getting hot and carrying the team on his back for stretches, but as we saw, when he slumps, it's a hard, hard slump. He just doesn't have the OBP skill to sustain himself as a solid player through cold stretches.

If the Brewers had a few better OBP-type players, I wouldn't have a problem bringing back Schoop. But right now, Shaw (or Moose), Aguilar, Pina, Santana and Braun all bring similar streaky "all-or-nothing" offensive profiles, and I just don't think you can fill the lineup with those types and still have any consistency. It would be another year of a feast or famine offense.


Even when Aguilar struggled he drew walks. In his worst month this year he posted a .202/.321/.449 line. I fail to see the comp BEYOND Aguilar also struggled at a point during this season. His worst month, his OBP was well above Schoop's career average.

Aggie is fine. He pressed after the All-Star game, even admitting that he was pressing to get that 100th RBI(for whatever reason). But that's what happens with young players. They go through struggles. I don't feel like Aguilar is fairly treated in this forum at all. His WORST month he had a .770 OPS. Not exactly a scrub or a Cris Carter type hitter.

The way people talk about him reminds me of Segura. Despite watching him, watching the bat speed and how smooth he was at SS, he struggled for a bit and people were citing his big year in Milwaukee as a career year. I feel the same about Aguilar. When he isn't pull happy, he takes pitches, takes his walks, he goes the other way and when he's right, he's very disciplined at the plate. It'll take more than a couple average or below average months on each side of August(when he was very good) to get me off his bandwagon.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#44

Posted: October 24, 2018, 1:11 PM Post
Posts: 865
Location: Oshkosh
BrewersSuperCollector said:
SomewhereInTime said:
Thank god, Schoop is an absolutely terrible baseball player and has no business being anywhere near this team in the future.


Really? You actually believe this?


He has about as bad of an approach as I've ever seen at the plate. I was shocked Stearns would bring a player like this to Milwaukee.


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#45

Posted: October 24, 2018, 1:16 PM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
True Blue Brew Crew said:
Given Hiura and Arcia's right-handedness, the ideal placeholder at 2B, who would then back up all over the IF, would be a LHB. I think you start there when taking a stab at who will be added to the roster this offseason. Could come via free agency or via trade. You can't allocate too much salary to said placeholder because the team has a lot of work to do to get LHP into the IOG mix next year. Thus why Schoop and Moustakas aren't realistic at their salaries, much less their difficulty making consistent contact.


However, the spot he'd more likely to be platooned or played would be for Shaw so then RH would be good. Kind of a catch 22. I'd hope for someone without drastic splits if possible.


Yep no doubt. The perfect acquisition would be a LH bat with an up the middle caliber glove, who has the ability to play 3B and fare better against LHP than Shaw. That's a big, but not impossible ask. I'd wager that whoever best fits that bill would be someone the Brewers prioritize and are willing to overpay for.

I suppose Perz isn't going anywhere and he can be counted on to play decent 3B and hit LHP. Would bring the criteria back primarily to a left hand bat that plays 2B/SS.

Asdrubal Cabrera really fits the bill.


Last edited by True Blue Brew Crew on October 24, 2018, 1:25 PM, edited 2 times in total.

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Online  Re: Schoop news
#46

Posted: October 24, 2018, 1:16 PM Post
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10 mil for a platoon player would be asinine.

If we resign him for a platoon, I think that is a complete waste of money.


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#47

Posted: October 24, 2018, 2:10 PM Post
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turborickey said:
Actually I was speaking about the first half of the season where he was sent down...I don't think his sporadic playing time the first half did him, or the Brewers any favors.


He started 41 of the Brewers first 52 games and had 176 PA's. Thats well over a 500PA pace for an entire season. Despite a .364 BABIP he was only hitting .253 and slugging .357. His playing time was anything but sporadic. He forgot how to hit.

Anyway, back to Schoop, I'd be surprised if they brought him back, but if they didn't, 2B will once again be filled with the likes of Orf, Sogard, Et al.

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#48

Posted: October 24, 2018, 2:47 PM Post
Posts: 1990
HiAndTight said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Schoop is basically Jesus Aguilar with the athleticism to play 2B. I have no doubt that he is capable of getting hot and carrying the team on his back for stretches, but as we saw, when he slumps, it's a hard, hard slump. He just doesn't have the OBP skill to sustain himself as a solid player through cold stretches.

If the Brewers had a few better OBP-type players, I wouldn't have a problem bringing back Schoop. But right now, Shaw (or Moose), Aguilar, Pina, Santana and Braun all bring similar streaky "all-or-nothing" offensive profiles, and I just don't think you can fill the lineup with those types and still have any consistency. It would be another year of a feast or famine offense.


Aggie is fine. He pressed after the All-Star game, even admitting that he was pressing to get that 100th RBI(for whatever reason). But that's what happens with young players. They go through struggles. I don't feel like Aguilar is fairly treated in this forum at all. His WORST month he had a .770 OPS. Not exactly a scrub or a Cris Carter type hitter.


Chris Carter OPSd .821 for all of 2016 with the Brewers. Aguilar OPS'd ~.810 the last three months of this season. I logically think it should be questioned if the league figured him out to some extent or some other reason that maybe the .810 is most realistic of his future projection going forward. At min. wage I don't see him going anywhere.


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#49

Posted: October 24, 2018, 3:55 PM Post
Posts: 4405
MrTPlush said:
True Blue Brew Crew said:
He'll be called on to fill one of the Brewers glaring weaknesses. Not much risk in that at all.


I would agree with you if it was like mid-August when there is no other option. Right now the world is out oyster and we can improve quite easily for not too much money (or prospects). For example lets say we could get Marwin Gonzalez at 3/$24mil and he gives us an OPS+ of 115. Hiura comes up and shows some flashes, but his OPS+ is 85...that is a pretty big drop off before even considering defense. And yes defensive shifting helps, but you will not hide his poor arm and overall questionable defensive skills. Shaw has a strong arm making him pretty good on defensive shifts...that will be a long throw for Hiura out there if it isn't smoked right at him.

You can't just ignore all the potential scenarios we could do this offense and just compare Hiura to what we had last year...that's just not right.

I'm not even saying Hiura can't come up and be great. All I am saying is why not getting a better back-up plan if you are going to spend 8 figures?


Where are you getting the Hiura is a bad defender from? I know he had surgery on his shoulder so there was questions about it holding up but I never heard anything bad about his defense outside of that. If there is something other than questions about a weak arm I would love to see it but if his arm strength is all that you are basing it off of I don't think it's much of an issue at second.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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#50

Posted: October 26, 2018, 4:19 PM Post
Posts: 222
NYChez said:
My biggest concern about Schoop is that he’s only 27 and he struggles to get around on average fastballs enough to hit them into fair territory. I expect that from a 37 year old, not a 27 year old. This is even in obvious fastball counts. My minimum expectation from a position player (to make $1 million, let alone $10 million) is that they are able to hit a fastball in a fastball count.

With average fastball velocities increasing each year, I don’t expect this situation to get better for Schoop.

I noticed the same thing regarding Schoop.

It sure felt like when he wasn't swinging and missing at junk pitches, when he actually WOULD make contact, he was always late on fastballs fouling them off, showing a serious lack of bat speed. It hardly felt like he barrelled anything up during his entire tenure with us. (excluding the infamous grand slam)


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#51

Posted: October 26, 2018, 4:19 PM Post
Posts: 222
NYChez said:
My biggest concern about Schoop is that he’s only 27 and he struggles to get around on average fastballs enough to hit them into fair territory. I expect that from a 37 year old, not a 27 year old. This is even in obvious fastball counts. My minimum expectation from a position player (to make $1 million, let alone $10 million) is that they are able to hit a fastball in a fastball count.

With average fastball velocities increasing each year, I don’t expect this situation to get better for Schoop.

I noticed the same thing regarding Schoop.

It sure felt like when he wasn't swinging and missing at junk pitches, when he actually WOULD make contact, he was always late on fastballs fouling them off, showing a serious lack of bat speed. It hardly felt like he barrelled anything up during his entire tenure with us. (excluding the infamous grand slam)


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#52

Posted: October 26, 2018, 10:41 PM Post
Posts: 1950
Painful watching him versus a righty.... Throw hard anywhere and it seemed over.


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#53

Posted: October 26, 2018, 11:47 PM Post
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This was just my observations from watching on television, but Mr. Schoop . . . no matter where he was on the field (playing defense, in the batter's box, in the dugout) looked (to ME) like he would have rather been ANYWHERE but where he was. Almost as if he was thinking, "You know, if I hadn't been traded, I would've been on vacation by now, dammit."

Now, maybe that has been his mannerisms throughout his time in Baltimore, as well. I don't really know. And maybe he is truly a mild-mannered man that doesn't show emotion. Those people DO exist. It just struck me as odd, I guess.

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#54

Posted: October 27, 2018, 1:46 PM Post
Posts: 3086
If he was below $5M you could consider it, but at $10M it’s not really much of a question.

Whatever we gave up for him is sunk cost, aka it doesn’t factor in what we do going forward. The $10M can be much better spent than on a sub 600 OPS middle infielder.


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#55

Posted: October 27, 2018, 2:01 PM Post
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I agree that ten million is a lot for a sub 600 OPS middle infielder, though I'd also wager a similar amount (had I won the recent Mega Millions drawing or been born a Rothschild) that Schoop will post an OPS in 2019 much closer to the 747 mark he posted in 2500+ PAs with Baltimore than the 577 mark he posted in 134 PAs with the Brewers.


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#56

Posted: October 27, 2018, 2:09 PM Post
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What timeline are we looking at for Dubon?


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Online  Re: Schoop news
#57

Posted: October 27, 2018, 2:15 PM Post
Posts: 17938
liveforoctober said:
What timeline are we looking at for Dubon?


According to Stearns, should be full go for spring training.


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#58

Posted: October 27, 2018, 2:30 PM Post
Posts: 3086
sveumrules said:
I agree that ten million is a lot for a sub 600 OPS middle infielder, though I'd also wager a similar amount (had I won the recent Mega Millions drawing or been born a Rothschild) that Schoop will post an OPS in 2019 much closer to the 747 mark he posted in 2500+ PAs with Baltimore than the 577 mark he posted in 134 PAs with the Brewers.


The Brewers disagree.

When they absolutely needed offense, Schoop was firmly attached to the bench.

He won’t be back at $10M.


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#59

Posted: October 27, 2018, 3:00 PM Post
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The Brewers disagree with what exactly? Are you saying you have access to their internal projections & they have Schoop down for an OPS of 662 or lower in 2019?

Non tendering Schoop is certainly an option & I won't be surprised if that's the decision they ultimately make, but hopefully you'll understand if I don't just take your word for it...

Boomer5 said:
Clearly. Shaw can't and won't play 2B.


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#60

Posted: October 27, 2018, 3:22 PM Post
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do we keep Schoop until we are sure about Dubon or Hiura ? and then maybe if need be try to trade Schoop


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