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Schoop news (Latest- Non-Tendered)

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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#61

Posted: October 27, 2018, 10:52 PM Post
Posts: 8
brewmann04 said:
do we keep Schoop until we are sure about Dubon or Hiura ? and then maybe if need be try to trade Schoop



That’s a pretty big “if” or risk considering if you pay schoop the 10 mil he struggles and then you can’t trade him cause nobody wants him unless you eat a chunk of the contract and thats a waste of resources for a financially cautious ball club. If he plays well enough for someone to want him that means he is playing well and you don’t want to trade him.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#62

Posted: October 28, 2018, 8:09 AM Post
Posts: 1965
Location: Madison, WI
Stearns has to be really bummed out that Schoop flopped so bad. Villar had been nothing but a big question mark. The OBP component of Schoop figured to be subpar but the power aspect of his bat seemed to be a fairly sure thing. Now Schoop is no less of a question mark as Villar and the Brewers gave up two other pretty decent prospects to land him. Stearns has done a plus-plus-plus job for this organization but he has to be a bit disappointed with the way this turned out. If he had kept Villar the arbitration gamble for 2019 would be sitting at approximately 4.4 million dollars, with Schoop the gamble is approximately 10.1 million dollars.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/10/ ... -2019.html


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#63

Posted: October 28, 2018, 8:39 AM Post
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Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
Yes, of all of the moves by Stearns this past season Schoop was probably the biggest flop of them all. [sad]


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#64

Posted: October 28, 2018, 9:44 AM Post
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JosephC said:
Stearns has to be really bummed out that Schoop flopped so bad. Villar had been nothing but a big question mark. The OBP component of Schoop figured to be subpar but the power aspect of his bat seemed to be a fairly sure thing. Now Schoop is no less of a question mark as Villar and the Brewers gave up two other pretty decent prospects to land him. Stearns has done a plus-plus-plus job for this organization but he has to be a bit disappointed with the way this turned out. If he had kept Villar the arbitration gamble for 2019 would be sitting at approximately 4.4 million dollars, with Schoop the gamble is approximately 10.1 million dollars.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/10/ ... -2019.html


But again, Villar was desiganted to deep deep deep bench.

Not sure if removing all playing time came from Stearns or CC, but the fact was, Villar was never going to get any kind of a chance to play again with us.

Was he a clubhouse issue? There has never been talk of this from anyone in the organization. Players, coaches, no one.

They obvioulsy wanted nothing to do with him on the field, he had to go, there was just no point in keeping him.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#65

Posted: October 28, 2018, 1:09 PM Post
Posts: 12778
It’s a big mistake on Stearns part until proven otherwise. His fault for resorting Villar to the deep deep bench or his fault for allowing Counsell to put him on the deep deep bench. It’s still the Brewers fault for trading a guy who was actually useful for a guy who ended up complete worthless trash.

Maybe he was a clubhouse cancer...? Maybe? But it’s kinda lame to just assume that. I am guessing Counsell just didn’t like him and decided to stop using him. Likely telling Stearns to get him something else.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#66

Posted: October 28, 2018, 3:28 PM Post
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I think some people here are being overly optimistic about Hiura for 2019. If I was the GM I would not count on any significant contribution by Hiura. If you get it, great, but don't plan on it.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#67

Posted: October 28, 2018, 6:57 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
It’s a big mistake on Stearns part until proven otherwise. His fault for resorting Villar to the deep deep bench or his fault for allowing Counsell to put him on the deep deep bench. It’s still the Brewers fault for trading a guy who was actually useful for a guy who ended up complete worthless trash.

Maybe he was a clubhouse cancer...? Maybe? But it’s kinda lame to just assume that. I am guessing Counsell just didn’t like him and decided to stop using him. Likely telling Stearns to get him something else.



And that is totally their option as the manager and GM. If they didn't like him, I'm sure there's a reason. Was he a useful player? Maybe. But he wasn't going to be one as a Milwaukee Brewer. I liked Villar a lot, but I am more than willing to give Counsell and Stearns the benefit of the doubt on this one.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#68

Posted: October 28, 2018, 7:05 PM Post
Posts: 3045
Villar doesn't bring much to the table so not a loss that he is gone nor that they put him on the bench. Would have been nice to get somebody better than Schoop but no reason to prolong the Villar experiment.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#69

Posted: October 28, 2018, 7:39 PM Post
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It all speculation on Villar but i can't seeing paying 10 million to schoop until your going to make him the everyday second baseman


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#70

Posted: October 28, 2018, 9:48 PM Post
Posts: 4945
To me, the fact that Schoop has the ability to play SS and give the Brewers some positional flexibility might help justify keeping him around for 2019, even at ~$10Mil...it's just a tough pill to swallow letting him walk and basically lighting the prospect capital given up for him on fire - a big part of the reason it was probably close to the package they offered the Orioles for Machado was the fact Schoop was under team control for all of 2019. If you have a disaster and Arcia either gets hurt or can't hit again in 2019, Schoop gives them flexibility there.

I'm probably crazy, but I'd prefer to avoid watching another 2B jettisoned from the Brewers' roster for nothing just tear it up next year, especially if they don't view Hiura as the opening day 2B realistically. I think they bring him back, offer him a low end arbitration #, and try to come to terms with him somewhere close to what he made this season before it reaches the arbitrator. Schoop is notoriously streaky, and unfortunately he didn't hit the ground running offensively as a Brewer and then got relegated to being a part time player when Shaw played 2B more frequently and Arcia hit well enough to play most days at SS. I'd like to see what Schoop can do knowing he's got the 2B job every day (assuming Shaw's back at 3rd with Moose likely opting out), and getting a full spring training to get more comfortable as a Brewer in what would be his free agent year.

Schoop's stretch with the Brewers was the worst offensive #'s he's put up IN HIS CAREER...I have quite a bit of confidence he will be drastically better next year simply by being "average" Schoop.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#71

Posted: October 29, 2018, 6:34 AM Post
Posts: 12274
Schoop had been in the Baltimore organization since he was 17 years old. Suddenly after the hottest week of his career, he goes from a last place team into a pennant race in a new league where his playing time shrinks. Judging him on 124 AB's is a risk. He missed a grand total of 2 games in 2016 and 2017.

It's a tough call, but if you bring him back, you stick him at 2B and let him play everyday which is his comfort level. If by mid June it's clear he hasn't returned to form, and Hiura is raking at AAA, you make the move.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#72

Posted: October 29, 2018, 6:54 AM Post
Posts: 3900
JohnBriggs12 said:
Schoop had been in the Baltimore organization since he was 17 years old. Suddenly after the hottest week of his career, he goes from a last place team into a pennant race in a new league where his playing time shrinks. Judging him on 124 AB's is a risk. He missed a grand total of 2 games in 2016 and 2017.

It's a tough call, but if you bring him back, you stick him at 2B and let him play everyday which is his comfort level. If by mid June it's clear he hasn't returned to form, and Hiura is raking at AAA, you make the move.


Agree on that. The only reason they might not go in that direction is budget concerns.

At the very least, bring him back and shop him around this winter.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#73

Posted: October 29, 2018, 7:01 AM Post
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Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
MrTPlush said:
It’s a big mistake on Stearns part until proven otherwise. His fault for resorting Villar to the deep deep bench or his fault for allowing Counsell to put him on the deep deep bench. It’s still the Brewers fault for trading a guy who was actually useful for a guy who ended up complete worthless trash.

Maybe he was a clubhouse cancer...? Maybe? But it’s kinda lame to just assume that. I am guessing Counsell just didn’t like him and decided to stop using him. Likely telling Stearns to get him something else.


I don't know if Schoop was trash. He was productive with the Orioles. For some reason he stunk once he put on a Brewers uniform. With 20/20 hindsight we probably needed pitching more than another infielder. [sad]


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#74

Posted: October 29, 2018, 7:03 AM Post
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Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
MrTPlush said:
It’s a big mistake on Stearns part until proven otherwise. His fault for resorting Villar to the deep deep bench or his fault for allowing Counsell to put him on the deep deep bench. It’s still the Brewers fault for trading a guy who was actually useful for a guy who ended up complete worthless trash.

Maybe he was a clubhouse cancer...? Maybe? But it’s kinda lame to just assume that. I am guessing Counsell just didn’t like him and decided to stop using him. Likely telling Stearns to get him something else.



And that is totally their option as the manager and GM. If they didn't like him, I'm sure there's a reason. Was he a useful player? Maybe. But he wasn't going to be one as a Milwaukee Brewer. I liked Villar a lot, but I am more than willing to give Counsell and Stearns the benefit of the doubt on this one.


Villar wasn't much better at the plate for us than Schoop was so I can understand why he was traded away. Unfortunately for us we didn't really upgrade that roster spot.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#75

Posted: October 29, 2018, 7:21 AM Post
Posts: 12778
Schoop had one good week all season, he wasn't productive with the Orioles either. He was, if possible, even worse with the Orioles in June (.516 OPS)! And no....no other month except July was even close to good. Schoop ended up being an total waste of a roster spot. At least Villar would run up a pitch count and had speed.

It is what it is...a flop of a trade. No need to try the experiment again. If he couldn't figure anything out in two months no reason to waste millions to see if he can right the ship in a new city, town, state, team, stadium, etc. next year. Especially when he could be a stopgap to Hiura anyway.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#76

Posted: October 29, 2018, 7:39 AM Post
Posts: 1965
Location: Madison, WI
I very much doubt Stearns will get caught up in what Schoop didn't do in 2 months of work. More likely he will look at the last three years as a whole when making the decision.

2016-2018:
.267/.304/.461/.765
104 OPS+
Average 26 HR/83 RBI
Average 3 bWAR
Average 2.2 fWAR
will be 27 years old at the beginning of next season


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#77

Posted: October 29, 2018, 7:48 AM Post
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I could see it going either way regarding Schoop, and I guess I wouldn't be too upset either way. I personally don't think his approach is a good fit for the lineup as its currently constructed, but he is still young and has obvious talent, so you kinda hate to just give that away, too. I think that Schoop is simply a very streaky, undisciplined hitter that because of that lack of discipline is going to be prone to long cold stretches. If he gets hot, though, he's got the capability of carrying the team on his back for week-long stretches. I kinda wish that Melvin had gotten the Mets GM job, because Schoop is the exact type of player that he salivates over.

If we decided to non-tender him, it isn't like we gave up some sort of huge haul to get him. Ortiz has great stuff, but has conditioning and durability issues. Carmona is a lottery ticket. Villar was never going to get regular time as a Brewer, and would likely have been non-tendered anyway. I'd rather they just cut bait on Schoop, but I understand if they decide to hang onto him.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#78

Posted: October 30, 2018, 6:39 PM Post
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JosephC said:
I very much doubt Stearns will get caught up in what Schoop didn't do in 2 months of work. More likely he will look at the last three years as a whole when making the decision.

2016-2018:
.267/.304/.461/.765
104 OPS+
Average 26 HR/83 RBI
Average 3 bWAR
Average 2.2 fWAR
will be 27 years old at the beginning of next season


Yeah. If they don't keep Schoop, they will need to find another guy basically just like Schoop. They aren't going to get anybody better, and with Soria and Moose leaving via FA we should be able to afford him just fine.

You might be able to pick up a more consistent guy who puts together good ABs and has a higher OBP...but probably not. And if you did do that, Schoop could turn around hit 40 bombs next year with a .290/.340/.550 line for somebody else.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#79

Posted: October 30, 2018, 8:17 PM Post
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Pugger said:
Villar wasn't much better at the plate for us than Schoop was so I can understand why he was traded away.


Villar had an OPS+ of 85 for the Brewers in 2018. Schoop had an OPS+ of 53. They were not close. Schoop was utter garbage.


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Offline  Re: Schoop news
#80

Posted: October 30, 2018, 8:28 PM Post
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Out of MLB 2nd basemen with at least 200 plate appearances in 2018, Schoop's OBP ranked 47th. I don't think a world series contender can take a chance on relying on a guy with such downside.


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