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Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds

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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: November 04, 2018, 4:21 PM Post
Posts: 7
Unless it was a sticking point in Johnson’s original contract why would you put a negotiating window in someone’s contract to began with? Seems to me like you asking for another organization to poach your coaching staff if they do a good job for a lateral move.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: November 06, 2018, 9:53 AM Post
Posts: 69
Reds just got Turner Ward from the Dodgers, another organization that must be in complete turmoil.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: November 06, 2018, 10:25 AM Post
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Dodgers are a mess because they spend the max and still fail to bring home a ws


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: November 06, 2018, 10:33 AM Post
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jw5511986 said:
Reds just got Turner Ward from the Dodgers, another organization that must be in complete turmoil.


The Reds are apparently going to coach their way back to mediocrity.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 7:08 AM Post
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Location: Green Bay, WI
Some pitching stats thus far. It's still April, but it's hard to not come to the conclusion that losing Derek Johnson was a huge blow to the team.

Current ERA rankings, NL:

CIN (3rd): 3.22
MIL (15th): 5.37

HR allowed, NL:

CIN (1st): 17
MIL (15th): 43

OPS against, NL:

CIN (2nd): .668
MIL (13th): .791


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 7:13 AM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
I am not happy at all with our current pitching or pitching coach. I do think we need to have more data though. If those numbers are around the same in another month, it will start to be very telling (and annoying).


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 7:14 AM Post
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Point Beer Is Best said:
Some pitching stats thus far. It's still April, but it's hard to not come to the conclusion that losing Derek Johnson was a huge blow to the team.

Current ERA rankings, NL:

CIN (3rd): 3.22
MIL (15th): 5.37

HR allowed, NL:

CIN (1st): 17
MIL (15th): 43

OPS against, NL:

CIN (2nd): .668
MIL (13th): .791


I was feeling pretty good ... but these numbers are discouraging. I was a big proponent of the idea that moving from Johnson to Hook wouldn't be much of a difference, but so far appearances are quite the opposite. Of course, maybe the Brewers just managed to catch lightning in a bottle last year, and things are evening out now. And thankfully its still early.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 7:26 AM Post
Posts: 1926
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Point Beer Is Best said:
Some pitching stats thus far. It's still April, but it's hard to not come to the conclusion that losing Derek Johnson was a huge blow to the team.

Current ERA rankings, NL:

CIN (3rd): 3.22
MIL (15th): 5.37

HR allowed, NL:

CIN (1st): 17
MIL (15th): 43

OPS against, NL:

CIN (2nd): .668
MIL (13th): .791


I was feeling pretty good ... but these numbers are discouraging. I was a big proponent of the idea that moving from Johnson to Hook wouldn't be much of a difference, but so far appearances are quite the opposite. Of course, maybe the Brewers just managed to catch lightning in a bottle last year, and things are evening out now. And thankfully its still early.


Maybe if it was just the Brewers sucking, but the Reds also catching lightning in a bottle this year? I'm starting to think it is more than coincidence.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 7:49 AM Post
Posts: 1245
Roderick said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Point Beer Is Best said:
Some pitching stats thus far. It's still April, but it's hard to not come to the conclusion that losing Derek Johnson was a huge blow to the team.

Current ERA rankings, NL:

CIN (3rd): 3.22
MIL (15th): 5.37

HR allowed, NL:

CIN (1st): 17
MIL (15th): 43

OPS against, NL:

CIN (2nd): .668
MIL (13th): .791


I was feeling pretty good ... but these numbers are discouraging. I was a big proponent of the idea that moving from Johnson to Hook wouldn't be much of a difference, but so far appearances are quite the opposite. Of course, maybe the Brewers just managed to catch lightning in a bottle last year, and things are evening out now. And thankfully its still early.


Maybe if it was just the Brewers sucking, but the Reds also catching lightning in a bottle this year? I'm starting to think it is more than coincidence.


I’ll take the contrarian view here. Coaches are overrated. To give this much credit to Derrick Johnson is ridiculous in my opinion. Last year’s success with pitching staff had as much or more to do with our analytics department and front office brain power in game planning than pitching coach. The numbers will start to even out moving forward. I have faith and trust in David Stearns and his ability to hire the right man for the job.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 7:50 AM Post
Posts: 4117
Gotta be careful jumping to conclusions so early, especially when the Brewers have basically played two of the perceived best NL offenses in LAD and STL, plus the cubs, for all but 6 of their games to date. All those games have been played in good weather as well. There's too much familiarity playing all these games on top of each other.

That being said, it will be interesting to see if brewer pitching can adjust and improve. If it cant, then I think criticism of the pitching coach can start being warranted.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 8:18 AM Post
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I think you'd have to look at the Reds staff and compare what they did last year to this year. Castillo, in particular, has been outstanding but he was on everybody's radar as a breakout candidate. They also swapped out some bad pitchers for upgrades. Jury is still out.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 8:21 AM Post
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Point Beer Is Best said:
Some pitching stats thus far. It's still April, but it's hard to not come to the conclusion that losing Derek Johnson was a huge blow to the team.

Current ERA rankings, NL:

CIN (3rd): 3.22
MIL (15th): 5.37

HR allowed, NL:

CIN (1st): 17
MIL (15th): 43

OPS against, NL:

CIN (2nd): .668
MIL (13th): .791


Both the ERA & the OPS against marks are being driven by the unsustainably high HR allowed number (in our case) & the unsustainably low HR allowed number (in the Reds case).

Pretty much the entirety of the "our pitching sucks" argument comes down to HR allowed which is by far the flukiest element of pitching over a sample this small (still only 211 IP as a team).

The most important thing you wrote relative to future results is "It's still April". If at the end of the year the Reds are still top 3 in all categories & we are still bottom 3 in all categories I'll drink a Budweiser Light.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 8:27 AM Post
Posts: 4383
Point Beer Is Best said:
Some pitching stats thus far. It's still April, but it's hard to not come to the conclusion that losing Derek Johnson was a huge blow to the team.

Current ERA rankings, NL:

CIN (3rd): 3.22
MIL (15th): 5.37

HR allowed, NL:

CIN (1st): 17
MIL (15th): 43

OPS against, NL:

CIN (2nd): .668
MIL (13th): .791


Cincy has played Pittsburgh 6times, Mia 3 times 9 of their 21 games vs. #13(Mia) and #14(Pitts) in HRs hit this season. Prior to yesterday Pittsburgh had as many HRs as Yelich and our Pitchers combined. Also we've now played 3games more than Cincy has with this quick LA home and @St Louis turnaround yesterday. Cincy has a far more experienced staff with only 1 who had less Games started (24) than the Trio combined of Freddy-14, Corbin-0, and Brandon-13. (27) We've got a new catcher too if maybe that matters working with our guys. How does he do with pitch calling, set-up, framing? Maybe there's a little to do with Launchpad pitching on the team because the way Grandal calls it. The sequencing being predictable. Hader has given up a HR now in 3 straight appearances. 1st pitch, 0-2 count, and 1-2 count.

But all that could just be like said above, playing these teams it is a familiarity. Veteran teams getting the best of a young starters team.

Come back June 10th after Milwaukee has played Pitts and Mia in the last 10games and then compare the squads.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 8:32 AM Post
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This conversation was inevitable if the Brewers did anything other than dominate out of the gates. I am very worried as I've said lots of places. But it is April. This is a month where Eric Thames looked like Barry Bonds and many Brewers teams stormed out of the gates to finish below .500.

I got beyond frustrated watching last night and will probably take a week off from watching. But hopefully things get better soon. I think this is probably a bigger problem than DJ.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 9:28 AM Post
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Posts: 142
Location: Chicago
The pitching hasn't been stellar because the pitchers aren't hitting their spots. When Houser gave up hits last night he was almost always behind on the batter (only two hits came with Houser ahead in the count), so obviously there was some predictability in what was coming when he was behind in the count, and there isn't a lot of deception in his pitches because he gave up plenty of hard contact.

Most of the damage against Woodruff on Sunday was when he was behind in the count. He only gave up three hits when even or ahead in the count including the two homers to Joc Pederson who just had Woodruff's number hitting an 0-1 pitch out and the first pitch of an at bat for his second homer.

Jacob Barnes was behind in the count on every hit he gave up except the single to Molina.

I don't know what any pitching coach can do which would result in a pitcher getting more strikes earlier in the count. Woodruff, Houser and the other young pitchers will either adjust to start getting more strikes earlier in the count, or they'll eventually wash out of being major league starters. Some guys like Barnes, who at 29 is what he is, some nights his good fastball will get him through, other nights it won't and that's why he's a low leverage bullpen arm.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 10:04 AM Post
Posts: 10437
A pitching coach is not the difference between greatness and pile of dinosaur dung.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 10:08 AM Post
Posts: 3975
Location: Madison, WI
Of course t his is a small sample overreaction. But I'd also say the notion that a pitching coach doesn't matter is also a bit off. They're responsible for the strategies batter to batter, helping with mechanics, pitch selection. I think they're very important. Definitely more than a hitting coach. I guess just look at STL and ATL for all those years is evidence to me that a good pitching coach can be very important. Maybe there isn't a difference between say the 7th best guy and the 27th best guy but if you have one of the top top guys I think it's a big advantage. Of course DJ is still very early but it's possible he is one of those top guys. If he turns that CIN staff into good results this year it's a huge accomplishment.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 10:35 AM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
Of course t his is a small sample overreaction. But I'd also say the notion that a pitching coach doesn't matter is also a bit off. They're responsible for the strategies batter to batter, helping with mechanics, pitch selection. I think they're very important. Definitely more than a hitting coach. I guess just look at STL and ATL for all those years is evidence to me that a good pitching coach can be very important. Maybe there isn't a difference between say the 7th best guy and the 27th best guy but if you have one of the top top guys I think it's a big advantage. Of course DJ is still very early but it's possible he is one of those top guys. If he turns that CIN staff into good results this year it's a huge accomplishment.

I think this is where Johnson had his greatest contribution while pitching coach. I believe he is way underappreciated for his ability to setup pitch selection from batter to batter. This is what the current rotation is lacking and considering they went all-in on "rookies" it's even more important to have that ability to know how to approach the hitters. Add-in a catcher who is completely unfamiliar with the current pitchers and I think the current pitch selection/batter strategy is what's been the biggest loss from DJ leaving.

JosephC said:
Stearns probably had no interest in getting a C because the Brewers need a C. It makes much more sense to trade for 3B when it's not needed, and then move the other 3B to 2B, then trade for a 2B, but since the 3B is now at 2B, then the new 2B goes to SS


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 12:56 PM Post
Posts: 1926
xisxisxis said:
Add-in a catcher who is completely unfamiliar with the current pitchers and I think the current pitch selection/batter strategy is what's been the biggest loss from DJ leaving.


Another small sample size, but look at how the pitchers have done with Manny Pina behind the plate versus Grandal.


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Offline  Re: Derek Johnson leaving to go to Reds
Posted: April 23, 2019, 12:57 PM Post
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Location: California
FWIW, Robert Murray of The Athletic had Q&A today and he was asked about the difference between Johnson and Hook and he summarized it as Johnson being stronger at pitch sequencing and Hook being stronger at mechanics. This seems to fit the narrative specifically with Burnes, Peralta and Woodruff. I have to think sorting out sequencing is an easier remedy than mechanics. Let's hope its as simple as that.


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