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Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt

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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#61

Posted: December 06, 2018, 12:29 PM Post
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Pujols may not have actually been 31 years old when he had his 31 year old season. At least that's the rumor...

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Online  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#62

Posted: December 06, 2018, 12:39 PM Post
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MadScientist said:

Pujols was decent his first year with the Angels, and while he may not be a huge upgrade for the Cards at first, they can now put Martinez in the outfield and sit Fowler. That winds up being a pretty good upgrade offensively for the Cards. That and the fact they didn't give up a ton makes it likely a good deal for StL. Unfortunately. If the Cards sign Goldschmidt to a long term extension it will come back to bite them.


He wasn't himself though. Not much better than Aguilar really, which is my point - if Goldschmidt's struggles at the start of the year are a very early indicator of some decline, then he might not be much better than Aguilar next year, which is why I don't blame the Brewers for taking this gamble. They should be focused on what went wrong with Aguilar and why he couldn't stay effective all year. Spend the money on more trainers and dietitians instead of giving up prospects for Goldschmidt (half-kidding, but I do think that's part of the problem with Aguilar).

I would buy that Pujols was a little over 31 in 2011. I also think it's just as likely that he was on PED's and stopped taking them when he got a huge contract.


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#63

Posted: December 06, 2018, 1:31 PM Post
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coolhandluke121 said:
MadScientist said:

Pujols was decent his first year with the Angels, and while he may not be a huge upgrade for the Cards at first, they can now put Martinez in the outfield and sit Fowler. That winds up being a pretty good upgrade offensively for the Cards. That and the fact they didn't give up a ton makes it likely a good deal for StL. Unfortunately. If the Cards sign Goldschmidt to a long term extension it will come back to bite them.


He wasn't himself though. Not much better than Aguilar really, which is my point - if Goldschmidt's struggles at the start of the year are a very early indicator of some decline, then he might not be much better than Aguilar next year, which is why I don't blame the Brewers for taking this gamble. They should be focused on what went wrong with Aguilar and why he couldn't stay effective all year. Spend the money on more trainers and dietitians instead of giving up prospects for Goldschmidt (half-kidding, but I do think that's part of the problem with Aguilar).

I would buy that Pujols was a little over 31 in 2011. I also think it's just as likely that he was on PED's and stopped taking them when he got a huge contract.


I wasn't thinking in terms of the Brewers getting him. He likely would not have been a significant upgrade. However he likely does help the Cardinals by a fair amount, which hurts the Brewers.


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#64

Posted: December 06, 2018, 8:49 PM Post
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Goldy is a superb player picked up by the Cardinals. Weaver/Kelly etc. aren't anywhere near the quality it should have taken to get a player like Goldschmidt. I'd call this every bit #1 off season move we'll likely see comparable to Brewers acquiring Yelich. The NL Central is scary how good it would seem to be. On the positive side, I'd say the Brewers Bullpen "outgetter" squad is probably the best way to negate all this offensive talent you are facing for half the season.

Luke Weaver is a guy I think living off a 1st round selection and college age minors progression hope. Arizona should have looked to get Dakota Hudson who I believe has a higher ceiling and of course less service time. Kelley, I don't like catching prospects, they fail on expectations. He's not even a big hitter prospect for Catching, you can probably pick so many of these types off the scrap heaps, sorta like Erik Kratz. Arizona just spent Goldschmidt to acquire this type.

What is Arizona doing? are they in rebuild now because this team easily lost 10 wins in Corbin/Goldy. Are they in the line for any of the big FAs with the money saved?


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#65

Posted: December 06, 2018, 10:59 PM Post
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I realize that since Paul Goldschmidt was taken at pick 246 and Brian Dozier at 252, the Brewers at 256 had no possibility of taking either of them in the 8th round of the 2009 draft. So I jumped up a round fully expecting to see a no-name. In the 7th round at 226 the Brewers picked Khris Davis. The Diamondbacks and Twins respected their choices and made sure that when they were ready, there was a place for them in the big leagues. Just imagine if the Brewers had traded Braun, in his prime, for - I dunno - a legitimate #1 pitcher. [I know. I know. Drunken speculation is not good for the soul. Still....... LOLOLOL]


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Online  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#66

Posted: December 07, 2018, 7:21 AM Post
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baybeachbum1 said:
I realize that since Paul Goldschmidt was taken at pick 246 and Brian Dozier at 252, the Brewers at 256 had no possibility of taking either of them in the 8th round of the 2009 draft. So I jumped up a round fully expecting to see a no-name. In the 7th round at 226 the Brewers picked Khris Davis. The Diamondbacks and Twins respected their choices and made sure that when they were ready, there was a place for them in the big leagues. Just imagine if the Brewers had traded Braun, in his prime, for - I dunno - a legitimate #1 pitcher. [I know. I know. Drunken speculation is not good for the soul. Still....... LOLOLOL]


I don't really get where you are trying to go with this. The Brewers didn't respect Khris Davis? The Brewers should have traded Braun in 2011? They are related? What???


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#67

Posted: December 07, 2018, 10:23 AM Post
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I agree with Luke about the 2011 Pujols and Goldie issue. Ball players peak at 27. Albert's true age may never be known. I believe him to be 3 years older than reported. The lack of photographs from his youth and no birth certificate are highly suspicious.

Goldie will be a welcome relief defensively at 1b and will certainly hit better than Carpenter, who will hit a tad better (maybe) than Gyrko @ 3b. However the Cards' best hitter in Martinez will be squeezed out by the return of Dexter Fowler, the hitless wonder.

All and all it's an upgrade, I guess, but is it enough to keep up with the Cubs and Brewers?


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#68

Posted: December 07, 2018, 11:26 AM Post
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Dead Simmons said:
I agree with Luke about the 2011 Pujols and Goldie issue. Ball players peak at 27. Albert's true age may never be known. I believe him to be 3 years older than reported. The lack of photographs from his youth and no birth certificate are highly suspicious.

Goldie will be a welcome relief defensively at 1b and will certainly hit better than Carpenter, who will hit a tad better (maybe) than Gyrko @ 3b. However the Cards' best hitter in Martinez will be squeezed out by the return of Dexter Fowler, the hitless wonder.

All and all it's an upgrade, I guess, but is it enough to keep up with the Cubs and Brewers?

You don't see them putting Martinez in the outfield and sitting Fowler? If you are right, this is not going to upgrade the Cards offense very much.


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#69

Posted: December 07, 2018, 11:42 AM Post
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MadScientist said:
Dead Simmons said:
I agree with Luke about the 2011 Pujols and Goldie issue. Ball players peak at 27. Albert's true age may never be known. I believe him to be 3 years older than reported. The lack of photographs from his youth and no birth certificate are highly suspicious.

Goldie will be a welcome relief defensively at 1b and will certainly hit better than Carpenter, who will hit a tad better (maybe) than Gyrko @ 3b. However the Cards' best hitter in Martinez will be squeezed out by the return of Dexter Fowler, the hitless wonder.

All and all it's an upgrade, I guess, but is it enough to keep up with the Cubs and Brewers?

You don't see them putting Martinez in the outfield and sitting Fowler? If you are right, this is not going to upgrade the Cards offense very much.
Fowler makes a king's ransom while Martinez makes peanuts. Our GM insists on playing the highest paid player as it's a bad look for him to be sitting on the bench.

It's gonna put Shildt in a tricky position juggling those two: how can you pinch hit Martinez for Fowler in late innings? He's gonna have to sub 2 guys for Dexter as you can't have Martinez out there stumblin' and bumblin' in RF.

It's odd that Luke (baby Hulk) Voit was shipped to the Evil Empire. Youth, power, speed and glove... I thought he was a better option than both of them.


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#70

Posted: December 07, 2018, 11:53 AM Post
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Dead Simmons said:
MadScientist said:
Dead Simmons said:
I agree with Luke about the 2011 Pujols and Goldie issue. Ball players peak at 27. Albert's true age may never be known. I believe him to be 3 years older than reported. The lack of photographs from his youth and no birth certificate are highly suspicious.

Goldie will be a welcome relief defensively at 1b and will certainly hit better than Carpenter, who will hit a tad better (maybe) than Gyrko @ 3b. However the Cards' best hitter in Martinez will be squeezed out by the return of Dexter Fowler, the hitless wonder.

All and all it's an upgrade, I guess, but is it enough to keep up with the Cubs and Brewers?

You don't see them putting Martinez in the outfield and sitting Fowler? If you are right, this is not going to upgrade the Cards offense very much.
Fowler makes a king's ransom while Martinez makes peanuts. Our GM insists on playing the highest paid player as it's a bad look for him to be sitting on the bench.

It's gonna put Shildt in a tricky position juggling those two: how can you pinch hit Martinez for Fowler in late innings? He's gonna have to sub 2 guys for Dexter as you can't have Martinez out there stumblin' and bumblin' in RF.

It's odd that Luke (baby Hulk) Voit was shipped to the Evil Empire. Youth, power, speed and glove... I thought he was a better option than both of them.

I hope you are right about your GM forcing sub-optimal playing time. They'd be a lot better off playing Martinez, using Fowler as a PH for a pitcher late in the game and leaving him as a defensive substitution for Martinez.


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#71

Posted: December 07, 2018, 2:45 PM Post
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I think people can paint this any way they want, but this is going to hurt us next year.

Cardinals just got better offensively, that can't be denied.

Goldy makes it that much more difficult to beat them.

This hurts the Brewers, and strengthens the Cardinals for 2019.


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#72

Posted: December 07, 2018, 3:23 PM Post
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turborickey said:
I think people can paint this any way they want, but this is going to hurt us next year.

Cardinals just got better offensively, that can't be denied.

Goldy makes it that much more difficult to beat them.

This hurts the Brewers, and strengthens the Cardinals for 2019.


You got me curious so I looked up the two teams' batting from last year. The numbers are really close. Closest of any 2 teams, almost mirror stats. The most lopsided stat was 24 3B hits for Brewers, 9 for Cards (ouch) Of course the main stat, RUNS SCORED there's only a 5 run difference! Over 1500 combined runs and only a 5 run difference??? That's nuts!

In spite of the addition of Goldie I still think that the offenses will be a wash. It will come down to pitching. Last year the Cards sucked and the Brewers didn't...especially the pen. Of course the Cards had mucho injuries. If they can get it together next season maybe it will be the Cubs in 3rd place and US slugging it out in Sept. for the pennant.
[wink]


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#73

Posted: December 07, 2018, 4:37 PM Post
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Pujols also lost a lot of production due to his chronic foot issue. I'm not willing to say Goldschmidt's poor start to the season is due to regression. He was just in a major funk. Will his number regress, potentially, but I think he has a handful of very productive years left in him.


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#74

Posted: December 07, 2018, 4:49 PM Post
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baybeachbum1 said:
I realize that since Paul Goldschmidt was taken at pick 246 and Brian Dozier at 252, the Brewers at 256 had no possibility of taking either of them in the 8th round of the 2009 draft. So I jumped up a round fully expecting to see a no-name. In the 7th round at 226 the Brewers picked Khris Davis. The Diamondbacks and Twins respected their choices and made sure that when they were ready, there was a place for them in the big leagues. Just imagine if the Brewers had traded Braun, in his prime, for - I dunno - a legitimate #1 pitcher. [I know. I know. Drunken speculation is not good for the soul. Still....... LOLOLOL]


Image


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#75

Posted: December 07, 2018, 7:25 PM Post
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3and2Fastball said:
Meanwhile, Carpenter moves to 3B and threatens to break Ryan Braun's record for the All-Time worst defensive season at Third.


Well, we could keep Shaw at 2B so Braun could defend (or is that not defend?) his title! [laughing]


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#76

Posted: December 08, 2018, 2:41 PM Post
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I mean, this makes an already good lineup better next year. Beyond that, I wonder.

I think our FO loves its young pitching and just isn't going to move any of those guys (Woody, Burnes, etc.). I am generally on board with that approach. I mean, imagine this staff if Nelson cones back strong.

Long-term, the Cards pitching just got worse. I would take our staff over theirs at this point I think, and that would have seemed crazy in April.


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Offline  Re: Cardinals acquiring Goldschmidt
#77

Posted: December 09, 2018, 3:43 PM Post
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Cool Hand Lucroy said:
I mean, this makes an already good lineup better next year. Beyond that, I wonder.

I think our FO loves its young pitching and just isn't going to move any of those guys (Woody, Burnes, etc.). I am generally on board with that approach. I mean, imagine this staff if Nelson cones back strong.

Long-term, the Cards pitching just got worse. I would take our staff over theirs at this point I think, and that would have seemed crazy in April.


Hope that we stand pat somewhat with our young SP and deal from our OF depth. We could add to SP at midseason.


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