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Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE

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Offline rickh150 Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 6:38 PM Post
Posts: 2279
PeaveyFury said:
rickh150 said:
Eh... just replace Santana late in games for Hernan or a fifth OF with d. Also, I wouldn't have been surprised if our creative coaching staff hid DS on certain at bats with a creative outfield shift. The bat plays.


To have a terrible defensive player in the OF for 8 innings instead of 9?

It's not all about dingers anymore. Counting stats are great, but the reality is that Santana has eroded most of his offensive value so far this year by 'playing' his bat.


Maybe 6 or 7 innings instead of 9.... yeah.
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Offline Brew4U Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 6:39 PM Post
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Posts: 15278
Location: Milwaukee, WI
I’ll Braun out there x1000

At 35, he’s making Santana look like a chump!
"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun
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Offline rickh150 Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 7:18 PM Post
Posts: 2279
Brew4U said:
I’ll Braun out there x1000

At 35, he’s making Santana look like a chump!


Sit Cain..
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Offline Brew4U Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 7:19 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
rickh150 said:
Brew4U said:
I’ll Braun out there x1000

At 35, he’s making Santana look like a chump!


Sit Cain..


Uh, no. He’s also, even as bad offensively as he’s been, better than Santana.
"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun
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Offline adambr2 Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 7:20 PM Post
Posts: 22269
rickh150 said:
Brew4U said:
I’ll Braun out there x1000

At 35, he’s making Santana look like a chump!


Sit Cain..


I hope there are no flyballs. Holy smokes is that going to be a bad defensive outfield.
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Offline Joey Meyer Bombs Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 7:26 PM Post
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Posts: 10234
Continuing to rip Stearns for dealing Santana is an incredibly weird hill to die on. That trade is basically a draw right now, without even factoring Zavolas into the equation. Yeah, Santana would make the Brewers a little less LHH heavy, but the guy cannot play defense, and the Brewers simply didn't want that.


Last edited by Joey Meyer Bombs on August 23, 2019, 7:32 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline adambr2 Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 7:28 PM Post
Posts: 22269
Santana is ok. He's not great. He's got a .781 OPS. He strikes out more than any player in baseball and is unplayable in the field. He's a bad fit for an NL team and he's not the missing link to this offense. For all the players that have been traded in the Stearns era we spend a weird amount of time talking about Domingo Santana. He's not really missed. He does some things well. Gamel does some things well. Zavalos is an ok prospect. Who cares.
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Offline PeaveyFury Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 7:29 PM Post
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rickh150 said:

Still better than Gamel.....


Unless you look at statistical facts, which show he’s not. Offensively? Sure. 100% fair. But overall? Nope. Simply dismissing the facts-based point others are making doesn’t make your view factually accurate in this case.
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Offline zurch1818 Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 7:32 PM Post
Posts: 475
How do you know he isn't going to be a late bloomer? I'm going to wait and find out before I make that judgement.
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Offline adambr2 Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 7:36 PM Post
Posts: 22269
zurch1818 said:
How do you know he isn't going to be a late bloomer? I'm going to wait and find out before I make that judgement.


Wait, which one of the 3?
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Offline Joey Meyer Bombs Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 7:37 PM Post
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zurch1818 said:
How do you know he isn't going to be a late bloomer? I'm going to wait and find out before I make that judgement.


He's not a late bloomer because it's not late. He was drafted last year and is in his first year of full-season ball. That is not the definition of a late bloomer. He on the typical path of a pitcher drafted as a senior in college.
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Offline Oxy Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 7:38 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
zurch1818 said:
How do you know he isn't going to be a late bloomer? I'm going to wait and find out before I make that judgement.


Wait, which one of the 3?


I think he's talking about Braun.
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Offline clancyphile Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 8:09 PM Post
Posts: 5080
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
zurch1818 said:
How do you know he isn't going to be a late bloomer? I'm going to wait and find out before I make that judgement.


He's not a late bloomer because it's not late. He was drafted last year and is in his first year of full-season ball. That is not the definition of a late bloomer. He on the typical path of a pitcher drafted as a senior in college.


And looking like a huge steal based on this year... Biloxi could tell the tale, but signs look very good.
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Offline Brew4U Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 8:10 PM Post
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Posts: 15278
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Add him to our pile of aces.
"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun
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Offline Oxy Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 8:18 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
Add him to our pile of aces.


This is a very under-rated meme.
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Offline rickh150 Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 9:25 PM Post
Posts: 2279
PeaveyFury said:
rickh150 said:

Still better than Gamel.....


Unless you look at statistical facts, which show he’s not. Offensively? Sure. 100% fair. But overall? Nope. Simply dismissing the facts-based point others are making doesn’t make your view factually accurate in this case.


Again, why not just sub Santana in the 7th if winning? Bring in the glove then. With our OF always needing another bat in there with someone hurt, it makes sense to put a .800 OPS guy out there, especially against any lefty. Moose or Shaw at 2B was weird and questionable at first, then not. Playing Santana in the OF rotation and rotating him out of the winning game in 6th or 7th would have had the same effect.

Not a Gamel or DS hater. Just makes no sense to compare stats career wise or even this year and say Gamel is slam dunk better. Just say Gamel is a better 4th outfielder, backup, or contact pinch hitter. I'd agree with you. Our unique situation calls for Santana playing much more, roughly 60 to 75% of the time with our fragile outfield and having to carry a load on offense.
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Offline RoCoBrewfan Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 9:29 PM Post
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Ok, but when you say "take him out if winning if the 7th inning" that ignores the impact of his terrible defense in the 1st through 6th innings, and the run differential that creates. "if winning" takes a negative hit because of his tremendously bad defense in right field, and when you just don't counter that into the equation of runs scored and runs allowed, you're refusing to see why Santana is not as valuable a ballplayer as an .800 OPS would make him seem.
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Offline rickh150 Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 9:34 PM Post
Posts: 2279
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Continuing to rip Stearns for dealing Santana is an incredibly weird hill to die on. That trade is basically a draw right now, without even factoring Zavolas into the equation. Yeah, Santana would make the Brewers a little less LHH heavy, but the guy cannot play defense, and the Brewers simply didn't want that.


Didn't rip the trade.... didn't die on any hill (yet).
I see value in having Domingo (and Aguilar) on this team against lefty starting and relief pitching off the bench. I see value with Gamel too, just not as much. Close trade, but I'd still rather have Santana and find other defensive guys/strategies to cover late innings.
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Offline adambr2 Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 9:34 PM Post
Posts: 22269
rickh150 said:
PeaveyFury said:
rickh150 said:

Still better than Gamel.....


Unless you look at statistical facts, which show he’s not. Offensively? Sure. 100% fair. But overall? Nope. Simply dismissing the facts-based point others are making doesn’t make your view factually accurate in this case.


Again, why not just sub Santana in the 7th if winning? Bring in the glove then. With our OF always needing another bat in there with someone hurt, it makes sense to put a .800 OPS guy out there, especially against any lefty. Moose or Shaw at 2B was weird and questionable at first, then not. Playing Santana in the OF rotation and rotating him out of the winning game in 6th or 7th would have had the same effect.

Not a Gamel or DS hater. Just makes no sense to compare stats career wise or even this year and say Gamel is slam dunk better. Just say Gamel is a better 4th outfielder, backup, or contact pinch hitter. I'd agree with you. Our unique situation calls for Santana playing much more, roughly 60 to 75% of the time with our fragile outfield and having to carry a load on offense.


Why is our outfield fragile?

Braun has stayed healthier than he has in years. Yelich and Cain have been nicked at times but nothing significant at all as far as missed time.

Santana would start very rarely. Definitely not 60-75% of the time. A Braun/Yelich/Santana outfield would be a nightmare defensively, and that matters in innings 1-7 too.
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Offline Oxy Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 9:37 PM Post
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Posts: 2542
rickh150 said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Continuing to rip Stearns for dealing Santana is an incredibly weird hill to die on. That trade is basically a draw right now, without even factoring Zavolas into the equation. Yeah, Santana would make the Brewers a little less LHH heavy, but the guy cannot play defense, and the Brewers simply didn't want that.


Didn't rip the trade.... didn't die on any hill (yet).
I see value in having Domingo (and Aguilar) on this team against lefty starting and relief pitching off the bench. I see value with Gamel too, just not as much. Close trade, but I'd still rather have Santana and find other defensive guys/strategies to cover late innings.


And if you can say the same 5 years from now, hooray for you, but there is a very real chance that Zavolas by himself outproduces Santana over the entirety of their careers.
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