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Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE

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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 9:40 PM Post
Posts: 2016
Oxy said:
rickh150 said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Continuing to rip Stearns for dealing Santana is an incredibly weird hill to die on. That trade is basically a draw right now, without even factoring Zavolas into the equation. Yeah, Santana would make the Brewers a little less LHH heavy, but the guy cannot play defense, and the Brewers simply didn't want that.


Didn't rip the trade.... didn't die on any hill (yet).
I see value in having Domingo (and Aguilar) on this team against lefty starting and relief pitching off the bench. I see value with Gamel too, just not as much. Close trade, but I'd still rather have Santana and find other defensive guys/strategies to cover late innings.


And if you can say the same 5 years from now, hooray for you, but there is a very real chance that Zavolas by himself outproduces Santana over the entirety of their careers.


Hope he does...


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 9:47 PM Post
Posts: 2016
RoCoBrewfan said:
Ok, but when you say "take him out if winning if the 7th inning" that ignores the impact of his terrible defense in the 1st through 6th innings, and the run differential that creates. "if winning" takes a negative hit because of his tremendously bad defense in right field, and when you just don't counter that into the equation of runs scored and runs allowed, you're refusing to see why Santana is not as valuable a ballplayer as an .800 OPS would make him seem.


I'm not saying Santana is a super overall option, just a better one than Gamel on this particular team. Gamel' bat has not been great, right? Really, Gamel could have been optioned real easily for Grisham, especially if CC would play Hernan in the OF.


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 9:53 PM Post
Posts: 2016
... [/quote]

Unless you look at statistical facts, which show he’s not. Offensively? Sure. 100% fair. But overall? Nope. Simply dismissing the facts-based point others are making doesn’t make your view factually accurate in this case.[/quote]

Again, why not just sub Santana in the 7th if winning? Bring in the glove then. With our OF always needing another bat in there with someone hurt, it makes sense to put a .800 OPS guy out there, especially against any lefty. Moose or Shaw at 2B was weird and questionable at first, then not. Playing Santana in the OF rotation and rotating him out of the winning game in 6th or 7th would have had the same effect.

Not a Gamel or DS hater. Just makes no sense to compare stats career wise or even this year and say Gamel is slam dunk better. Just say Gamel is a better 4th outfielder, backup, or contact pinch hitter. I'd agree with you. Our unique situation calls for Santana playing much more, roughly 60 to 75% of the time with our fragile outfield and having to carry a load on offense.[/quote]

Why is our outfield fragile?

Braun has stayed healthier than he has in years. Yelich and Cain have been nicked at times but nothing significant at all as far as missed time.

Santana would start very rarely. Definitely not 60-75% of the time. A Braun/Yelich/Santana outfield would be a nightmare defensively, and that matters in innings 1-7 too.[/quote]

Six games in a week.
Play for Braun twice, Yelich once, and Cain once.
Then there are the times regularly when one of the three has been nicked up.


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 23, 2019, 10:09 PM Post
Posts: 436
rickh150 said:
RoCoBrewfan said:
Ok, but when you say "take him out if winning if the 7th inning" that ignores the impact of his terrible defense in the 1st through 6th innings, and the run differential that creates. "if winning" takes a negative hit because of his tremendously bad defense in right field, and when you just don't counter that into the equation of runs scored and runs allowed, you're refusing to see why Santana is not as valuable a ballplayer as an .800 OPS would make him seem.


I'm not saying Santana is a super overall option, just a better one than Gamel on this particular team. Gamel' bat has not been great, right? Really, Gamel could have been optioned real easily for Grisham, especially if CC would play Hernan in the OF.


Gamel is out hitting Grisham and a better OF option. Grisham has to prove he can hit MLB pitching. High ceiling, but he has to prove it.


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 24, 2019, 5:30 AM Post
Posts: 3060
wntrtxn21 said:
rickh150 said:
RoCoBrewfan said:
Ok, but when you say "take him out if winning if the 7th inning" that ignores the impact of his terrible defense in the 1st through 6th innings, and the run differential that creates. "if winning" takes a negative hit because of his tremendously bad defense in right field, and when you just don't counter that into the equation of runs scored and runs allowed, you're refusing to see why Santana is not as valuable a ballplayer as an .800 OPS would make him seem.


I'm not saying Santana is a super overall option, just a better one than Gamel on this particular team. Gamel' bat has not been great, right? Really, Gamel could have been optioned real easily for Grisham, especially if CC would play Hernan in the OF.


Gamel is out hitting Grisham and a better OF option. Grisham has to prove he can hit MLB pitching. High ceiling, but he has to prove it.



Grisham has to play first to “prove”he can hit mlb pitching. Grisham is a 8000 times better hitter than Gamel, imo, and just needs regular playing time, over an extended period of time, to be a star.

Santana is a, in my opinion, a player that is the polar opposite of what should be in the outfield at MKE. Top 500 worst outfielder’s in the HISTORY of baseball, Ks way too much, and to be honest, adjusts his cup constantly to the point of, what’s up with that?. Strange, but true observation. Come on, I’m not the only one that noticed this odd habit.


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Online  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 24, 2019, 6:25 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 13518
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Brew crew 92 said:
and to be honest, adjusts his cup constantly to the point of, what’s up with that?. Strange, but true observation. Come on, I’m not the only one that noticed this odd habit.


[laughing] [laughing] [laughing]
Add this to your greatest posts collection.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 24, 2019, 7:21 AM Post
Posts: 459
I was talking about Zavalos. Someone was saying he wasn't anything special because he was only in A+.

I wish his k/9 was a little higher, but his bb/9 is great. He is an interesting prospect at this point. I haven't seen him pitch, so I don't know what to expect with his ceiling.


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Online  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 24, 2019, 8:33 AM Post
Posts: 3453
Brew4U said:
Brew crew 92 said:
and to be honest, adjusts his cup constantly to the point of, what’s up with that?. Strange, but true observation. Come on, I’m not the only one that noticed this odd habit.


[laughing] [laughing] [laughing]
Add this to your greatest posts collection.


At least top 600 greatest post of all time.


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 24, 2019, 12:49 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 10565
Brew4U said:
Brew crew 92 said:
and to be honest, adjusts his cup constantly to the point of, what’s up with that?. Strange, but true observation. Come on, I’m not the only one that noticed this odd habit.


[laughing] [laughing] [laughing]
Add this to your greatest posts collection.


I am beginning to think that this poster is not real, and just an alter ego to someone else that posts here. Some of the things said by this poster just can't be real live human thoughts, just can't be.


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: August 24, 2019, 1:04 PM Post
Posts: 306
turborickey said:
Brew4U said:
Brew crew 92 said:
and to be honest, adjusts his cup constantly to the point of, what’s up with that?. Strange, but true observation. Come on, I’m not the only one that noticed this odd habit.


[laughing] [laughing] [laughing]
Add this to your greatest posts collection.


I am beginning to think that this poster is not real, and just an alter ego to someone else that posts here. Some of the things said by this poster just can't be real live human thoughts, just can't be.

I mean. Here's not wrong about what he said in this instance.


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: September 30, 2019, 10:35 AM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 2526
Trade recap...

Domingo 2019 | 0.0 fWAR | 0.4 bWAR

Gamel 2019 | 1.0 fWAR | 0.6 bWAR

Zavolas 2019 | 133 IP | 2.98 ERA | 3.19 FIP | 4.43 K/BB


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Online  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: September 30, 2019, 10:43 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 9232
sveumrules said:
Trade recap...

Domingo 2019 | 0.0 fWAR | 0.4 bWAR

Gamel 2019 | 1.0 fWAR | 0.6 bWAR

Zavolas 2019 | 133 IP | 2.98 ERA | 3.19 FIP | 4.43 K/BB


bUt DoMiNgO hIt 21 DiNgErS!!!!!! #DERP


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: September 30, 2019, 12:29 PM Post
Posts: 174
sveumrules said:
Trade recap...

Domingo 2019 | 0.0 fWAR | 0.4 bWAR

Gamel 2019 | 1.0 fWAR | 0.6 bWAR

Zavolas 2019 | 133 IP | 2.98 ERA | 3.19 FIP | 4.43 K/BB

Zavolas was also named the 2019 Carolina League pitcher of the year --- https://www.milb.com/carolina-mudcats/n ... -310207598


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: September 30, 2019, 1:37 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 476
Location: Chicago
Pretty even trade I guess:

Gamel saw time at all three outfield spots. By all accounts is a good base runner, but not much power and struggles to make contact. He played this year as a pre-arbitration eligible player. With the emergence of Grisham, Gamel heading into arbitration; as much as I thought he was 'ok' in 2019 I wouldn't be surprised if his Milwaukee tenure is one and done.

Santana bad defender, struggles to make contact, but can work the count some what evidenced by OBP being 75 points above his batting average. Santana suffered some sort of injury in July as he collected just three singles and no extra base hits after July 31st and missed 37 games across August and September. This was his first arbitration eligible season. That Keon Broxton finished the season on Seattle's roster indicates they have plenty of need for outfielders. Despite Vogelbach making the all star game, his OPS was .780 to Santana's .770 so Domingo could have a future in Seattle as a DH too.

Zavolas had a nice year in A ball. As a pitcher who didn't strike many batters out, time will tell if he will be able to keep it up against better competition.


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: September 30, 2019, 4:28 PM Post
Posts: 436
Jopal78! said:
Pretty even trade I guess:

Gamel saw time at all three outfield spots. By all accounts is a good base runner, but not much power and struggles to make contact. He played this year as a pre-arbitration eligible player. With the emergence of Grisham, Gamel heading into arbitration; as much as I thought he was 'ok' in 2019 I wouldn't be surprised if his Milwaukee tenure is one and done.

Santana bad defender, struggles to make contact, but can work the count some what evidenced by OBP being 75 points above his batting average. Santana suffered some sort of injury in July as he collected just three singles and no extra base hits after July 31st and missed 37 games across August and September. This was his first arbitration eligible season. That Keon Broxton finished the season on Seattle's roster indicates they have plenty of need for outfielders. Despite Vogelbach making the all star game, his OPS was .780 to Santana's .770 so Domingo could have a future in Seattle as a DH too.

Zavolas had a nice year in A ball. As a pitcher who didn't strike many batters out, time will tell if he will be able to keep it up against better competition.


I'm not sold on Grisham yet. He also struggles to make contact and his .231BA is nothing to write home about. I think Gamel is a better OF, but may be more expensive. A toss up right now.


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: September 30, 2019, 4:33 PM Post
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Posts: 476
Location: Chicago
Yeah I can see that, but Grisham is a former first round pick and the pundits would say he still has “upside”, but who knows


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: September 30, 2019, 5:22 PM Post
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The Weatherman
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Posts: 6136
When you add in the fact that Gamel filled an important role on the Brewers as a late-innings PH/defensive replacement and injury fill-in, the trade was a big upgrade for the Brewers.

The Mariners still have about 5 DHs on their roster so I would be surprised if Domingo ends up somewhere else soon.


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: September 30, 2019, 6:49 PM Post
Posts: 1586
wntrtxn21 said:
Jopal78! said:
Pretty even trade I guess:

Gamel saw time at all three outfield spots. By all accounts is a good base runner, but not much power and struggles to make contact. He played this year as a pre-arbitration eligible player. With the emergence of Grisham, Gamel heading into arbitration; as much as I thought he was 'ok' in 2019 I wouldn't be surprised if his Milwaukee tenure is one and done.

Santana bad defender, struggles to make contact, but can work the count some what evidenced by OBP being 75 points above his batting average. Santana suffered some sort of injury in July as he collected just three singles and no extra base hits after July 31st and missed 37 games across August and September. This was his first arbitration eligible season. That Keon Broxton finished the season on Seattle's roster indicates they have plenty of need for outfielders. Despite Vogelbach making the all star game, his OPS was .780 to Santana's .770 so Domingo could have a future in Seattle as a DH too.

Zavolas had a nice year in A ball. As a pitcher who didn't strike many batters out, time will tell if he will be able to keep it up against better competition.


I'm not sold on Grisham yet. He also struggles to make contact and his .231BA is nothing to write home about. I think Gamel is a better OF, but may be more expensive. A toss up right now.


It's easy to forget that Grisham is only 22 years old.


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Offline  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: September 30, 2019, 8:37 PM Post
Posts: 86
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
wallus said:
wntrtxn21 said:
Jopal78! said:
Pretty even trade I guess:

Gamel saw time at all three outfield spots. By all accounts is a good base runner, but not much power and struggles to make contact. He played this year as a pre-arbitration eligible player. With the emergence of Grisham, Gamel heading into arbitration; as much as I thought he was 'ok' in 2019 I wouldn't be surprised if his Milwaukee tenure is one and done.

Santana bad defender, struggles to make contact, but can work the count some what evidenced by OBP being 75 points above his batting average. Santana suffered some sort of injury in July as he collected just three singles and no extra base hits after July 31st and missed 37 games across August and September. This was his first arbitration eligible season. That Keon Broxton finished the season on Seattle's roster indicates they have plenty of need for outfielders. Despite Vogelbach making the all star game, his OPS was .780 to Santana's .770 so Domingo could have a future in Seattle as a DH too.

Zavolas had a nice year in A ball. As a pitcher who didn't strike many batters out, time will tell if he will be able to keep it up against better competition.


I'm not sold on Grisham yet. He also struggles to make contact and his .231BA is nothing to write home about. I think Gamel is a better OF, but may be more expensive. A toss up right now.


It's easy to forget that Grisham is only 22 years old.

And that batting average doesn’t matter


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Online  Re: Domingo Santana to the Mariners, Gamel and Zavolas to MKE
Posted: October 01, 2019, 2:55 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 13518
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Maybe batting average isn’t the end all but it does in fact matter.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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