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Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers

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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 17, 2019, 9:02 PM Post
Posts: 4603
Brew4U said:
Keon isn’t good though.


In 2018, he may have had a sub-Uecker average in 89 plate appearances, but was still 1.6 wins above replacement.

Overall, he had 4.2 wins above replacement in Milwaukee.

As a 4th outfielder, not conventional in terms of his offensive profile, but he provides excellent defense.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 17, 2019, 9:08 PM Post
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And Cain was 6.9 wins above replacement just last year, clancy. As others have said, they’re on two different planets as players.

Like I said earlier, Keon fits a role for the Brewers. But it’s a well defined, narrow one that would have to be at the right cost.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 17, 2019, 9:08 PM Post
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Location: Oshkosh
clancyphile said:
Brew4U said:
Keon isn’t good though.


In 2018, he may have had a sub-Uecker average in 89 plate appearances, but was still 1.6 wins above replacement.

Overall, he had 4.2 wins above replacement in Milwaukee.

As a 4th outfielder, not conventional in terms of his offensive profile, but he provides excellent defense.


WAR is absolutely meaningless in 89 PA's, especially when most of it comes from defense (and especially when it's from an outfielder).


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 17, 2019, 9:09 PM Post
Posts: 3060
clancyphile said:
Brew4U said:
Keon isn’t good though.


In 2018, he may have had a sub-Uecker average in 89 plate appearances, but was still 1.6 wins above replacement.

Overall, he had 4.2 wins above replacement in Milwaukee.

As a 4th outfielder, not conventional in terms of his offensive profile, but he provides excellent defense.


But, the thing is, and I know this is going to be hard to believe, but since leaving the crew he’s actually REGRESSED as a hitter. But minor league deal then in sept as a pinch runner/ defensive replacement could help us win a game? We just can’t let him hit.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 18, 2019, 7:58 AM Post
Posts: 1742
Location: Madison, WI
I think the Mets botched this one. Not trading for Broxton, but essentially giving up on him too soon. Maybe Gomez rebounds from a pretty bad 2018 season, but I just never saw him as a guy that would age gracefully in baseball terms. Broxton was off to a terrible start, but he's a much better offensive player that what he showed so far in a Mets uniform. And I don't think there is any comparison defensively. Gomez was once an elite defender, but Broxton is a far better with the glove these days. It's pretty debatable whether Gomez can even play a fairly effective centerfield anymore.

I don't think there is a place for Broxton back on the Brewer's 40-man roster, but there should be around a half dozen MLB teams which should be tripping over one another in trying to acquire him. I would have to think the Mets get trade offers, even though everyone will low-ball them now because they've DFA'ed him.

I don't know if these numbers are right, but I just checked team OPS by players playing centerfield, and 20 of the teams have a centerfield OPS below .700 (Brewers are 12th at .697). 10 of the teams have a CF OPS below .650 and 7 of those teams have a CF OPS below .600. Have to believe there would be about 10 teams that would have serious interest in Broxton.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 18, 2019, 10:19 AM Post
Posts: 456
JosephC said:
I think the Mets botched this one. Not trading for Broxton, but essentially giving up on him too soon. Maybe Gomez rebounds from a pretty bad 2018 season, but I just never saw him as a guy that would age gracefully in baseball terms. Broxton was off to a terrible start, but he's a much better offensive player that what he showed so far in a Mets uniform. And I don't think there is any comparison defensively. Gomez was once an elite defender, but Broxton is a far better with the glove these days. It's pretty debatable whether Gomez can even play a fairly effective centerfield anymore.

I don't think there is a place for Broxton back on the Brewer's 40-man roster, but there should be around a half dozen MLB teams which should be tripping over one another in trying to acquire him. I would have to think the Mets get trade offers, even though everyone will low-ball them now because they've DFA'ed him.

I don't know if these numbers are right, but I just checked team OPS by players playing centerfield, and 20 of the teams have a centerfield OPS below .700 (Brewers are 12th at .697). 10 of the teams have a CF OPS below .650 and 7 of those teams have a CF OPS below .600. Have to believe there would be about 10 teams that would have serious interest in Broxton.


Broxton's bat will deter most teams looking for help. He is not a bench-type player and needs every-day ABs to be even close to decent. Even in 2017 when he got over 440 ABs he was terrible. .220 BA/.299 OBP. Whiffed 40% of his ABs. He is a good glove that can't hit. I don't think there will be more than two teams even looking at him, and then it will be for a minor lg. contract.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 19, 2019, 2:24 PM Post
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wntrtxn21 said:
Broxton's bat will deter most teams looking for help. He is not a bench-type player and needs every-day ABs to be even close to decent. Even in 2017 when he got over 440 ABs he was terrible. .220 BA/.299 OBP. Whiffed 40% of his ABs. He is a good glove that can't hit. I don't think there will be more than two teams even looking at him, and then it will be for a minor lg. contract.


Broxton still slugs and he has shown the ability to get on base via the walk.

You get him for his defense, his speed, and that power.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 20, 2019, 10:26 AM Post
Posts: 4433
clancyphile said:
Brew4U said:
Keon isn’t good though.


In 2018, he may have had a sub-Uecker average in 89 plate appearances, but was still 1.6 wins above replacement.

Overall, he had 4.2 wins above replacement in Milwaukee.

As a 4th outfielder, not conventional in terms of his offensive profile, but he provides excellent defense.


This seems like a misuse of wins above replacement. If it isn't then it says more about wins above replacement than it does Broxton. WAR is ok for a quick glance and does ok at giving a snapshot of offensive ability. It does not do so well with defense IMHO.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 20, 2019, 10:46 AM Post
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Clancy, would the Angels be better with Keon in CF over Trout with all of the money savings? Why are all-star players ever signed if they can save the money and use it on a roster of replacement players with 1 plus skill?


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 20, 2019, 10:49 AM Post
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I'm going to pretend the Broxton/Cain thing is just a fun intellectual exercise.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 20, 2019, 10:58 AM Post
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dlk9s said:
I'm going to pretend the Broxton/Cain thing is just a fun intellectual exercise.

It is indeed an intellectual exercise.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 22, 2019, 9:36 PM Post
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Broxton lands in Baltimore, which is likely a perfect spot to get playing time and rob home runs.

https://twitter.com/haudricourt/status/ ... 59683?s=21


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 23, 2019, 7:09 AM Post

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bork said:
And the Mets replaced him by recalling Carlos Gomez.

technically, gomez had his contract selected. only players on the major league roster on optional assignment can be recalled. gomez was on a minor league contract.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: May 23, 2019, 8:00 AM Post
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NYChez said:
Broxton lands in Baltimore, which is likely a perfect spot to get playing time and rob home runs.

https://twitter.com/haudricourt/status/ ... 59683?s=21


Speaking of former Brewers in Baltimore, Villar's OPS is below .700 and he's proving to be the same crappy player he was in Milwaukee outside on one season.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: September 30, 2019, 10:47 AM Post
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Trade recap...

Keon 2019 | -0.8 fWAR | -0.8 bWAR

Wahl 2019 | hurt

Hill 2019 | 121 IP | 3.92 ERA | 4.51 FIP | 1.98 K/BB

Valerio 2019 | 306/376/389 | 11.8 K% | 9.6 BB%


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: September 30, 2019, 12:36 PM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
NYChez said:
Broxton lands in Baltimore, which is likely a perfect spot to get playing time and rob home runs.

https://twitter.com/haudricourt/status/ ... 59683?s=21


Speaking of former Brewers in Baltimore, Villar's OPS is below .700 and he's proving to be the same crappy player he was in Milwaukee outside on one season.


What a difference 4+ months makes.

Final slash line:
274/339/453
40/49 on stolen bases

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: September 30, 2019, 12:50 PM Post
Posts: 741
homer said:
jerichoholicninja said:
NYChez said:
Broxton lands in Baltimore, which is likely a perfect spot to get playing time and rob home runs.

https://twitter.com/haudricourt/status/ ... 59683?s=21


Speaking of former Brewers in Baltimore, Villar's OPS is below .700 and he's proving to be the same crappy player he was in Milwaukee outside on one season.


What a difference 4+ months makes.

Final slash line:
274/339/453
40/49 on stolen bases


The 1st 20 HR/40 SB guy in MLB since... Carlos Gomez in 2013 with the Crew. Villar also played in all 162 games this season, very impressive year. 4.0 WAR according to Fangraphs and BBRef.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: October 08, 2019, 12:52 PM Post
Posts: 7162
https://twitter.com/mlbpipeline/status/ ... 49408?s=21


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: October 08, 2019, 1:27 PM Post
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markedman5 said:
https://twitter.com/mlbpipeline/status/1181641544232849408?s=21



Great news! Hope he can get a couple of solid innings in


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: October 12, 2019, 1:08 PM Post
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Just strolled over to B-R to look at Brox and by gosh, he struck out 104 times in 224 plate appearances this year. I'm 100% on the "strikeouts don't matter" bandwagon, but even I feel like there starts to be a point where it actually does *kinda* matter.


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