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Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers

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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: October 12, 2019, 2:47 PM Post
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RoCoBrewfan said:
Just strolled over to B-R to look at Brox and by gosh, he struck out 104 times in 224 plate appearances this year. I'm 100% on the "strikeouts don't matter" bandwagon, but even I feel like there starts to be a point where it actually does *kinda* matter.


Yeah, when it's close to 50%, that's too much.

Keon is either a starting CF for a team that is buying time for rebuilding, or he is a 5th outfielder on a very good team.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: October 12, 2019, 4:52 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
Anything above 30% is too much for me. Just shouldn’t happen.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: October 12, 2019, 7:14 PM Post
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We haven't missed Broxton, even for a second...

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: October 14, 2019, 9:09 AM Post
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clancyphile said:
RoCoBrewfan said:
Just strolled over to B-R to look at Brox and by gosh, he struck out 104 times in 224 plate appearances this year. I'm 100% on the "strikeouts don't matter" bandwagon, but even I feel like there starts to be a point where it actually does *kinda* matter.


Yeah, when it's close to 50%, that's too much.

Keon is either a starting CF for a team that is buying time for rebuilding, or he is a 5th outfielder on a very good team.


"Strikeouts don't matter" is a shortened version of the full axiom, "compared to any other kind of out for a hitter"

Broxton's problem with contact is an issue, but in reality it's that he simply makes too many outs. If he struck out 45% of the time and still managed to OBP'd .400, every team in MLB would want him.

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

Twitter: @MKEHiker
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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: October 15, 2019, 10:59 AM Post
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Baldkin said:
"Strikeouts don't matter" is a shortened version of the full axiom, "compared to any other kind of out for a hitter"

When runners are on base, there is a better chance of moving runners if the ball is put in play. That doesn't happen with strikeouts.

However, a K is better than a double play...


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: October 15, 2019, 1:52 PM Post
Posts: 754
Samurai Bucky said:
Baldkin said:
"Strikeouts don't matter" is a shortened version of the full axiom, "compared to any other kind of out for a hitter"

When runners are on base, there is a better chance of moving runners if the ball is put in play. That doesn't happen with strikeouts.

However, a K is better than a double play...


A strikeout is better than a double play, unless the DP scores the eventual winning run. There are 9 possible position errors that can happen with a ball put in play. One if the batter Ks. A whiff never scored a runner from 3B unless there's a WP or PB. A ball hit on the ground with the infield back usually scores a run. A long fly ball could advance a runner on 2B to 3B. A ball hit on the ground to the left side could advance a runner on 2B to 3B. A whiff advances the hitter to the bench. A strikeout is the worst type of out that can be made other than a DP ball. Ask anybody who ever pitched and see if he would rather face a guy in a crucial situation that whiffs a ton or a guy who puts the ball in play nearly every time.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: October 15, 2019, 9:24 PM Post
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I don't think the point is "K" vs. "Other Outs".

I think the point is if you K 50% of the time, you just aren't good at hitting the ball.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: October 15, 2019, 9:37 PM Post
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RoCoBrewfan said:
Just strolled over to B-R to look at Brox and by gosh, he struck out 104 times in 224 plate appearances this year. I'm 100% on the "strikeouts don't matter" bandwagon, but even I feel like there starts to be a point where it actually does *kinda* matter.


People just misconstrue the strikeouts don't matter argument. Broxton put up a .229 wOBA which is awful. If he had struck out that same amount and put up his 2017 wOBA of .308 we wouldn't care about the strike outs. The strikeouts led to him being awful so they do matter.

Eugenio Suarez struck out 28.6% of the time this season which is awful. He put up a .381 wOBA and 4.5 WAR which is fantastic. You can be a really great baseball player and strike out a lot, the strike outs themselves aren't what matter. It is what you do when you put the ball in play that really defines things. There are a lot of players who struck out a lot less than Suarez who were not even close to as good as him, the K's don't define a player like that. Having said that Broxton's K rate was so absurdly high that even the best player in baseball would struggle to make his stat line valuable with their balls in play.


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Offline  Re: Keon Broxton to Mets; Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill, Felix Valerio to Brewers
Posted: October 16, 2019, 6:08 PM Post
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Ennder said:
RoCoBrewfan said:
Just strolled over to B-R to look at Brox and by gosh, he struck out 104 times in 224 plate appearances this year. I'm 100% on the "strikeouts don't matter" bandwagon, but even I feel like there starts to be a point where it actually does *kinda* matter.


People just misconstrue the strikeouts don't matter argument. Broxton put up a .229 wOBA which is awful. If he had struck out that same amount and put up his 2017 wOBA of .308 we wouldn't care about the strike outs. The strikeouts led to him being awful so they do matter.

Eugenio Suarez struck out 28.6% of the time this season which is awful. He put up a .381 wOBA and 4.5 WAR which is fantastic. You can be a really great baseball player and strike out a lot, the strike outs themselves aren't what matter. It is what you do when you put the ball in play that really defines things. There are a lot of players who struck out a lot less than Suarez who were not even close to as good as him, the K's don't define a player like that. Having said that Broxton's K rate was so absurdly high that even the best player in baseball would struggle to make his stat line valuable with their balls in play.


This is basically what I'm saying though. Adam Dunn was a valuable offensive player and struck out an awful lot. He walked a lot and hit a lot of homers. I wouldn't care that Keon Broxton struck out 40% of the time if he did SOMETHING when he put the ball in play, but he isn't. When he was a .750-ish OPS guy with good defense, I was intrigued, even though he struck out 40% of the time. He had power, walked a good amount of the time, and had a lot of speed. But his K rate has gone up to an even more absurd rate, such that it would be simply impossible to have any value offensively.


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