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2019 Brewers' pitching staff

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Online  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 16, 2019, 6:25 AM Post
Posts: 2256
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Brew crew 92 said:
I also believe jimmy could dominate out of the pen.


Can you please stop saying this. This team has made absolutely no indication that the thought of Nelson going to the pen has even crossed their minds. He's been a starting pitcher his whole career, they are stretching him out as a starter right now, and he's coming off a major+++ injury that likely necessitates a higher level of maintenance and recovery work between outings. That is not a guy you stick out in the pen and demand to get ready quickly for short, spontaneous outings.

I mean, I've been wrong before about this team, but on this one, I feel pretty darn certain. Jimmy Nelson isn't going to be a reliever this year. His options are starting for the MLB team, optioning him and starting him at AAA, or a trip back to the DL if he deemed not ready.


All indications are Nelson to the rotation on or about June 1. I’m not saying they should put him in the bullpen. But who knows what the brewers are really thinking in regards to Nelson’s future all of this year?


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 16, 2019, 7:30 AM Post
Posts: 149
NYChez said:
Brewers are #1 in baseball in innings pitched and second-to-last in quality starts. Things have improved, but the bullpen is still being overused.


I don’t think quality starts is a goal for this team. I think heir goal is for the starter to go a little more than twice through an order while giving up 2 or less runs (typically 5 innings) and then construct a bullpen to handle the larger load. The bullpen can do this by having multiple guys who can handle 2-inning stunts and 80 innings on the year. Round that out by rotating 6 or more guys through the bottom two bullpen spots. Now wether this will be successful year in and year out is yet to be seen, but I don’t think increasing the inning load on the starters to save the bull pen is this teams goal (and I don’t blame them considering stats of starters >3 times through the order).


Last edited by mrn1ceguy on May 16, 2019, 8:27 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 16, 2019, 7:55 AM Post
Posts: 12049
mrn1ceguy said:
NYChez said:
Brewers are #1 in baseball in innings pitched and second-to-last in quality starts. Things have improved, but the bullpen is still being overused.


I don’t think quality starts is a goal for this team. I think heir goal is for the starter to go a little more than twice through an order while Viking up 2 or less runs (typically 5 innings) and then construct a bullpen to handle the larger load. The bullpen can do this by having multiple guys who can handle 2-inning stunts and 80 innings on the year. Round that out by rotating 6 or more guys through the bottom two bullpen spots. Now wether this will be successful year in and year out is yet to be seen, but I don’t think increasing the inning load on the starters to save the bull pen is this teams goal (and I don’t blame them considering stats of starters >3 times through the order).


But they are sacrificing an extra bench bat to carry an extra arm. That's fine with very few off days, but they have a number of off days coming up. I'd rather have a starter go a couple more outs and have an extra potent bat on the bench and allow Counsell to do more double switching.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 19, 2019, 9:01 PM Post
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They have pushed Davies and Woodruff out of desperation due to the string of extra-inning games, and it’s worked out well. Having a day or two a week of only needing one reliever will likely pay dividends in terms of fresher arms in the second half.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 19, 2019, 9:31 PM Post
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It a nice thing to see a starter get past 6 innings.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 20, 2019, 7:59 AM Post
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It's going to be very interesting to see what the decision is on Nelson come the end of the week. With all of the off days coming up, going to a 6-man rotation doesn't make a ton of sense, but the nice results of the starting staff have made the choice of who to remove very difficult. If you were going to look just at results, Chacin makes sense. But he's also a notorious slow starter, and has proven to be a solid mid rotation arm who's past results strongly indicate that he should maintain a rotation spot. Davies, Woodruff and Gonzalez have been terrific, so they won't be going anywhere. It comes down to whether they want to leave Anderson in the rotation or shift him back to long relief.


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Online  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 20, 2019, 8:21 AM Post
Posts: 2256
After watching the weekend series vs the Braves, a couple things stand out to me:

Peralta needs to pitch in SA, because he’s not gonna pitch out of the brewer bullpen. It’s painfully obvious CC doesn’t trust him, or he’d have pitched him at some point this past weekend.

Same with Houser, except he can be the mop up/long man in CCs pen.

I Also believe we need 1 more high leverage arm that CC can trust to go with Guerra Jeffress Hader, and that arm is Burnes. He’s proven last year and prior to Friday’s debacle that he can be that 4th arm to shut down the enemy. I believe Counsell agree’s.

Finally, when Nelson returns, he should go to the rotation and Anderson to the pen, which initially will strengthen the pen, giving CC a multi-inning arm that he trusts, which this bullpen desperately needs, and the potential of jimmy giving us another big time quality starter.


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Online  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 20, 2019, 10:14 PM Post
Posts: 17900
Brew crew 92 said:
After watching the weekend series vs the Braves, a couple things stand out to me:

Peralta needs to pitch in SA, because he’s not gonna pitch out of the brewer bullpen. It’s painfully obvious CC doesn’t trust him, or he’d have pitched him at some point this past weekend.

Same with Houser, except he can be the mop up/long man in CCs pen.

I Also believe we need 1 more high leverage arm that CC can trust to go with Guerra Jeffress Hader, and that arm is Burnes. He’s proven last year and prior to Friday’s debacle that he can be that 4th arm to shut down the enemy. I believe Counsell agree’s.

Finally, when Nelson returns, he should go to the rotation and Anderson to the pen, which initially will strengthen the pen, giving CC a multi-inning arm that he trusts, which this bullpen desperately needs, and the potential of jimmy giving us another big time quality starter.


I understand you believe Burnes has the potential to be a high leverage arm in the pen, but he doesn't currently belong in that conversation until he can straighten out his issues. 14 HR allowed at this point is extremely alarming particularly when he's only started 4 games. Burnes will be fine eventually, but right now he's got to earn a major role back.

Agree about Peralta needing to head to San Antonio, though not necessarily in agreement about the trust issues.

Don't agree that Anderson going to the pen strengthens the pen. He's been far more effective as a starter.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 21, 2019, 5:38 AM Post
Posts: 553
Location: Milwaukee
adambr2 said:
Don't agree that Anderson going to the pen strengthens the pen. He's been far more effective as a starter.

I've seen this stated multiple times now and I finnally looked up the data. This looks to based on small sample data. Chase has 13.2 IP as a starter (1.32 ERA) and 10 IP as a RP (4.50 ERA) in 2019. The biggest difference appears to be the 3 HRs he has given up as a RP. Otherwise, he actually has a better K/9 (11.7 vs 7.9) and better K/BB ratio (3.25 vs 1.33) as a reliever. For his career, he only has 12 IP as a reliever. I need more data to say he is a better starter than reliever.


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Online  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 21, 2019, 6:37 AM Post
Posts: 2256
adambr2 said:
Brew crew 92 said:
After watching the weekend series vs the Braves, a couple things stand out to me:

Peralta needs to pitch in SA, because he’s not gonna pitch out of the brewer bullpen. It’s painfully obvious CC doesn’t trust him, or he’d have pitched him at some point this past weekend.

Same with Houser, except he can be the mop up/long man in CCs pen.

I Also believe we need 1 more high leverage arm that CC can trust to go with Guerra Jeffress Hader, and that arm is Burnes. He’s proven last year and prior to Friday’s debacle that he can be that 4th arm to shut down the enemy. I believe Counsell agree’s.

Finally, when Nelson returns, he should go to the rotation and Anderson to the pen, which initially will strengthen the pen, giving CC a multi-inning arm that he trusts, which this bullpen desperately needs, and the potential of jimmy giving us another big time quality starter.


I understand you believe Burnes has the potential to be a high leverage arm in the pen, but he doesn't currently belong in that conversation until he can straighten out his issues. 14 HR allowed at this point is extremely alarming particularly when he's only started 4 games. Burnes will be fine eventually, but right now he's got to earn a major role back.

Agree about Peralta needing to head to San Antonio, though not necessarily in agreement about the trust issues.

Don't agree that Anderson going to the pen strengthens the pen. He's been far more effective as a starter.


Prior to the fri debacle with Burnes, he pitched great in high leverage this year and last year, CC said as much, let’s not blend together this year’s rotation efforts with his pen outings, especially when friday’s Outing a bit different than his usual appearances, down 3 as opposed to ahead or tied or maybe down 1. Look for CC to bring him in high leverage, moving forward.

I hope Peralta stays in the pen, so hoping your right about CC not losing faith in him. The potential for Freddy to pitch in relief like he did in last year’s playoff vs the dodgers > 3 ip 0 h 0 bb 6 Ks is worth him being multi-inning arm right now.

Anderson should do fine out of the pen, now that he has a little experience pitching multi-inning. Imo both he and Peralta could be real weapons and exactly what this bullpen needs to stay in even more ballgames and rest our high leverage arms.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 21, 2019, 6:51 AM Post
Posts: 820
Right now the starting pitching is looking pretty stable. As far as performance goes and past history I line them up something like this...

2.73 Nelson (11 innings as starter @SA)
1.54 Davies (52 innings)
1.69 Gonzalez (21 innings)
3.51 Woodruff (56 innings)
2.66 Anderson (1.32 in 10 innings as starter)
4.65 Chacin (50 innings)

We are in a really good place now with our starting pitching.

Burnes and Peralta need to go to SA and get right. Bring up Taylor Williams in their place. Hauser should stay for now and do all non leverage situations.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 21, 2019, 7:07 AM Post
Posts: 1956
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
It's going to be very interesting to see what the decision is on Nelson come the end of the week. With all of the off days coming up, going to a 6-man rotation doesn't make a ton of sense, but the nice results of the starting staff have made the choice of who to remove very difficult.


What's to decide? I think we all know where this is going.

Image


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 21, 2019, 7:43 AM Post
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I think its pretty obvious that they are building Nelson up to 100 pitch limit, which would seem to defy piggybacking in my opinion. I just have trouble seeing it as a viable option, especially for a manager like Counsell who seems to really value having as many bullpen bullets in the clip as he can.


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Online  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 21, 2019, 7:48 AM Post
Posts: 3418
Anderson is going to be the odd man out. I just don't see any of the others being an option. Nelson is going to start and, yes, maybe they hold back Anderson as a back up in case Nelson struggles a bit at the beginning but there is no doubt Nelson is being prepped as a full time starter.

but it's not like every guy suddenly forgot every piece of advice he gave


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 21, 2019, 8:10 AM Post
Posts: 1956
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
I think its pretty obvious that they are building Nelson up to 100 pitch limit, which would seem to defy piggybacking in my opinion.


I was half-joking, but flexible piggybacking wouldn't mean you never let a starter go 100 pitches if the match-up is right, the game situation calls for it, and/or many of your long relievers are unavailable. Also, it's definitely possible that they're stretching him out so much just to make sure he's 100% healthy.


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Online  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 21, 2019, 8:35 AM Post
Posts: 2256
coolhandluke121 said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
I think its pretty obvious that they are building Nelson up to 100 pitch limit, which would seem to defy piggybacking in my opinion.


I was half-joking, but flexible piggybacking wouldn't mean you never let a starter go 100 pitches if the match-up is right, the game situation calls for it, and/or many of your long relievers are unavailable. Also, it's definitely possible that they're stretching him out so much just to make sure he's 100% healthy.


Speaking of healthy, surprised the crew didn’t have Nelson pitch this next AAA start on 4 days rest?


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 21, 2019, 8:44 AM Post
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Brew crew 92 said:
coolhandluke121 said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
I think its pretty obvious that they are building Nelson up to 100 pitch limit, which would seem to defy piggybacking in my opinion.


I was half-joking, but flexible piggybacking wouldn't mean you never let a starter go 100 pitches if the match-up is right, the game situation calls for it, and/or many of your long relievers are unavailable. Also, it's definitely possible that they're stretching him out so much just to make sure he's 100% healthy.


Speaking of healthy, surprised the crew didn’t have Nelson pitch this next AAA start on 4 days rest?


He's going on Thursday I believe, which would be 6 days between starts. That seems to line up pretty close to where they will be at the MLB level for the immediate future with off days built into the schedule. Perhaps they will actually go to a 6-man rotation for awhile? This is actually a terrific situation to be in.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 21, 2019, 9:23 AM Post
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With Jimmy starting Thursday, and Chase lining up on Saturday, I'd say that Jimmy taking Chase's next start on May 31st seems fairly likely. Or possibly that with the 2 off days this week, they move Chase out of the rotation already and have Woodruff start (Still on an extra day's rest) on Saturday, and Jimmy getting his start on the thusday, 30th.

Pulling Chase early, at a time where there are extra off days like this and only 4 starters are needed, would allow the team to activate Shaw on Friday (I think that's when he's eligible to return) without having to demote Hiura or be short a bullpen arm. They wouldn't then have to make a decision on that until the 30th. I think a 6-man rotation is more suitable for when the scheduling is worse, with this many off days the starters get extra days between starts anyway, and I'd rather give our best starters an extra start or two rather than squeeze Chase in there. 6-man rotation also means one less bullpen arm. I just don't see anything to gain there right now.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 21, 2019, 9:40 PM Post
Posts: 347
Lathund said:
With Jimmy starting Thursday, and Chase lining up on Saturday, I'd say that Jimmy taking Chase's next start on May 31st seems fairly likely. Or possibly that with the 2 off days this week, they move Chase out of the rotation already and have Woodruff start (Still on an extra day's rest) on Saturday, and Jimmy getting his start on the thusday, 30th.

Pulling Chase early, at a time where there are extra off days like this and only 4 starters are needed, would allow the team to activate Shaw on Friday (I think that's when he's eligible to return) without having to demote Hiura or be short a bullpen arm. They wouldn't then have to make a decision on that until the 30th. I think a 6-man rotation is more suitable for when the scheduling is worse, with this many off days the starters get extra days between starts anyway, and I'd rather give our best starters an extra start or two rather than squeeze Chase in there. 6-man rotation also means one less bullpen arm. I just don't see anything to gain there right now.


CC has to send someone down to get Nelson on the 25-man roster. If they activate Shaw then another player has to be sent down unless CC wants to go with a 7-man pen. Either way if Shaw is activated Hiura has to go down or somebody has to be sent packing.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: May 22, 2019, 3:19 AM Post
Posts: 983
wntrtxn21 said:
Lathund said:
With Jimmy starting Thursday, and Chase lining up on Saturday, I'd say that Jimmy taking Chase's next start on May 31st seems fairly likely. Or possibly that with the 2 off days this week, they move Chase out of the rotation already and have Woodruff start (Still on an extra day's rest) on Saturday, and Jimmy getting his start on the thusday, 30th.

Pulling Chase early, at a time where there are extra off days like this and only 4 starters are needed, would allow the team to activate Shaw on Friday (I think that's when he's eligible to return) without having to demote Hiura or be short a bullpen arm. They wouldn't then have to make a decision on that until the 30th. I think a 6-man rotation is more suitable for when the scheduling is worse, with this many off days the starters get extra days between starts anyway, and I'd rather give our best starters an extra start or two rather than squeeze Chase in there. 6-man rotation also means one less bullpen arm. I just don't see anything to gain there right now.


CC has to send someone down to get Nelson on the 25-man roster. If they activate Shaw then another player has to be sent down unless CC wants to go with a 7-man pen. Either way if Shaw is activated Hiura has to go down or somebody has to be sent packing.


With Chase moving to the bullpen, they can send down a bullpen arm while still having 8 guys there. It was so obvious in my head I just forgot to include it.

Now they've also said Shaw will be starting his rehab assignment Wednesday, and likely will play at least 5 games, so he might not even be activated before Nelson, or just a couple of days before, so the above plan is unneccessary anyway.


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